Don't look now (Ezekiel Elliott)

[CalPolyTechnique]

Dude, you literally just proved my point. If you're using 1k yards as your measure of success, then over half of the successful RBs in the league were drafted in the first two rounds. I can't think of another position where more than half of the successful players were drafted so highly. Maybe pass rusher and quarterback? That's it though.

Lol, no you don't.

You don't get to hijack 2nd round players into the discussion. We are talking about premium 1st round picks being used to draft RBs. I'm even including borderline backend 1st rounders like Doug Martin (taken at 31).

There's a reason why there was a dry spell in the draft of 1st round backs being taken. To take one in the Top 5 is ludicrous unless he's a generational type like Peterson. Zeke is not Peterson. History shows you can take them anywhere and get production.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

No it isn't......it is the best way to get a great one.........18 of the top 20 all time RBs were 1st round picks, most of them early...just like every other position

We don't need an all time RB when you have the line we do and when you have deficiency on defense that we do.

You're missing the forest for all the trees.

 

[visionary]

Elliott is ranked 8th in the NFL in rushing yards and only two running backs have more touchdowns than him (each with 3).

People are using one bad game and a couple bad snaps to try to prove their point that this kid shouldn't have been drafted 4th overall while ignoring what is going on with Bosa and Ramsey. This was still the correct pick and I think we saw a much better game out of him last week despite the fumbles.

Some want to make Morris the starter (they've wanted this since training camp to push their agenda not help the team). But his numbers are certainly not demonstrably better than Elliotts.

Does he need to run better? Absolutely. I will also say the line needs to block better. I will also say Dak needs to take shots further down the field to keep defenses honest.

I would ask that people put their agendas in their pockets til week 9.

Thanks

How many RBs have more fumbles than him?

I'll wait

 

[visionary]

Lol, no you don't.

You don't get to hijack 2nd round players into the discussion. We are talking about premium 1st round picks being used to draft RBs. I'm even including borderline backend 1st rounders like Doug Martin (taken at 31).

There's a reason why there was a dry spell in the draft of 1st round backs being taken. To take one in the Top 5 is ludicrous unless he's a generational type like Peterson. Zeke is not Peterson. History shows you can take them anywhere and get production.

You're talking to @TheRomoSexual
The Cowboys FO never made a bad decision he didn't blindly endorse so you gotta factor that in

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

We don't need an all time RB when you have the line we do and when you have deficiency on defense that we do.

You're missing the forest for all the trees.

Exactly.

Murray ran for 1800+ yards and 13 TDs behind this line as a 3rd rounder.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

Lol, no you don't.

You don't get to hijack 2nd round players into the discussion. We are talking about premium 1st round picks being used to draft RBs. I'm even including borderline backend 1st rounders like Doug Martin (taken at 31).

There's a reason why there was a dry spell in the draft of 1st round backs being taken. To take one in the Top 5 is ludicrous unless he's a generational type like Peterson. Zeke is not Peterson. History shows you can take them anywhere and get production.

He's not Peterson, but he's certainly comparable to Gordon and Gurley. I can't think of a more complete RB prospect than Zeke since, well, Peterson. Size, speed, vision, catching and blocking ability, the kid is the complete package. He's the prototypical multi-year workhorse back, which is fat rarer than what many claim.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

You're talking to @TheRomoSexual
The Cowboys FO never made a bad decision he didn't blindly endorse so you gotta factor that in

To be fair, the only person agreeing with CalPoly is visionary, one of the biggest trolls on this site. So, good company.

 

[MRV52]

So in other words, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

I know more than you my friend.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

He's not Peterson, but he's certainly comparable to Gordon and Gurley. I can't think of a more complete RB prospect than Zeke since, well, Peterson. Size, speed, vision, catching and blocking ability, the kid is the complete package. He's the prototypical multi-year workhorse back, which is fat rarer than what many claim.

Murray was a complete back taken in the 3rd; Frank Gore is a complete back taken in the 4th; Arian Foster is a complete back that was undrafted, et cetera.

You do not need to draft a RB in the 1st round let alone Top 5 to get quality, productive and complete backs.

It's even more laughable that he'll likely be splitting carries with Morris, which only begs the question why you draft a RB #4 overall.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

Murray was a complete back taken in the 3rd; Frank Gore is a complete back taken in the 4th; Arian Foster is a complete back that was undrafted, et cetera.

You do not need to draft a RB in the 1st round let alone Top 5 to get quality, productive and complete backs.

It's even more laughable that he'll likely be splitting carries with Morris, which only begs the question why you draft a RB #4 overall.

There is literally no dumber argument than to take a successful NFL player and say they were a highly-touted prospect simply because they have been successful. Gore and Murray were not in the same league as Zeke from a draft prospect standpoint. Had we not take Zeke, he would have gone top 10.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

And for those who wanted Ramsey, what about Richard Sherman? Or Malcolm Butler? Or Darius Slay? Or Chris Harris Jr.? Or Sam Shields??? Well, I guess you can get cornerback productivity anywhere in the draft!

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

There is literally no dumber argument than to take a successful NFL player and say they were a highly-touted prospect simply because they have been successful. Gore and Murray were not in the same league as Zeke from a draft prospect standpoint. Had we not take Zeke, he would have gone top 10.

There's actually no dumber argument than to craft up a strawman ("to take a successful NFL player and say they were a highly-touted prospect [...]" to knockdown.

You're out of your depth...

 

[LatinMind]

We need better blocking out of the TE's.

But, as a rookie EE should be the backup against the Bears. It sends the right message to a young player that we can't afford to put the ball on the turf.

As far as Morris' numbers go...he ran the ball much better than EE in the Giants game. He didn't really get any opportunities in the Skins game. He had 1 run on a gadget play (fake dive, HB toss), if that is read by the defense, you're screwed. He had the goal line TD where he would have broke it for a lot of yards, but he only needs a few yards to go to get the TD. And he got 2 other carries when we were running out the clock and the skins lined 10 in the box.

Plus, Morris may very well be like DMC...a RB that needs to get some carries to get into a rhythm.

I don't think EE was worth the #4 overall pick because he's a RB. But, I am not totally down on him either. I just think it's ridiculous that people are excusing his 2 fumbles. I don't know of any other tailback that would get that leeway.




YR

Dont agree with this one bit. Morris ran behind a FB from a pro set. Dallas has ran EE exclusively from a shotgun no FB with 1 TE. Teams are waiting to see run, and rushing the LOS with LBs. There is literally nowhere to run because Dallas is running the stretch play from shotgun with EE. That play takes too long to develop and theres not really a cutback. The G from the opposite side is pulling to the other side but them LBs are attacking that G stoping progress.

If people want to talk about his fumbles then have at it. Thats a no-no. But to say this talk about this kids lack of avg or lack of big runs. Thats all coaching. It just seems these coaches dont know how to use their players strengths. They do it with Dez all the time. Bottle him up and make it easy for teams to take him out of the game.

BY the way they ran Morris out of the shotgun single back set and he lost yrds every time they tried it.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

And for those who wanted Ramsey, what about Richard Sherman? Or Malcolm Butler? Or Darius Slay? Or Chris Harris Jr.? Or Sam Shields??? Well, I guess you can get cornerback productivity anywhere in the draft!

I hate to re-litigate this...but it's not even comparable. RB is the single biggest position you can get productivity later in the draft and with more consistency. RB is also the most highly injured position in football. So now you're investing greater draft and monetary resources into a position that gets injured more frequently. RB is also the position with the shortest shelf life and earliest peak age. So now you're investing greater draft and monetary resources into a position that gets injured more frequently, peaks early and declines rapidly and is very rarely worth a large 2nd deal. RB is also the position that is most dependent on his line being able to block and his quarterback being feared enough to back up the linebacker. So now your'e investing greater draft and monetary resources into a position that gets injured more frequently, peaks early and declines rapidly, is very rarely worth a large 2nd deal and whose production is dependent on consistently good performance of the offensive line and quarterback.

Zeke has to be an All-Pro type performer for a decade for him to be worth his selection. The odds are very much against that happening for the stated reasons.

Again we could have had Morris and Lamar Miller for half the cost of Zeke while adding an elite talent on the defensive side of the ball. Or we could have had Morris and Matt Forte for a third of the cost of Zeke while adding an elite talent on the defensive side of the ball. When you look at that comparison...there is no comparison. Massive miss-allocation of resources.

Unfortunately it's water under the bridge.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

And for those who wanted Ramsey, what about Richard Sherman? Or Malcolm Butler? Or Darius Slay? Or Chris Harris Jr.? Or Sam Shields??? Well, I guess you can get cornerback productivity anywhere in the draft!

Cute. I bet you're thinking this a real witty argument aren't you little one?

What are you using as your measure of "success?" Don't be a simpleton and say interceptions either. Comparing the two positions (CB to RB) is apples-to-oranges btw.

Once you've forwarded a legitimate metric, you'll have to prove historically that "successful" cornerbacks can be found anywhere in terms of draft pedigree at the same rate as RBs have shown to be.

Go.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I hate to re-litigate this...but it's not even comparable. RB is the single biggest position you can get productivity later in the draft and with more consistency. RB is also the most highly injured position in football. So now you're investing greater draft and monetary resources into a position that gets injured more frequently. RB is also the position with the shortest shelf life and earliest peak age. So now you're investing greater draft and monetary resources into a position that gets injured more frequently, peaks early and declines rapidly and is very rarely worth a large 2nd deal. RB is also the position that is most dependent on his line being able to block and his quarterback being feared enough to back up the linebacker. So now your'e investing greater draft and monetary resources into a position that gets injured more frequently, peaks early and declines rapidly, is very rarely worth a large 2nd deal and whose production is dependent on consistently good performance of the offensive line and quarterback.

Zeke has to be an All-Pro type performer for a decade for him to be worth his selection. The odds are very much against that happening for the stated reasons.

Again we could have had Morris and Lamar Miller for half the cost of Zeke while adding an elite talent on the defensive side of the ball. Or we could have had Morris and Matt Forte for a third of the cost of Zeke while adding an elite talent on the defensive side of the ball. When you look at that comparison...there is no comparison. Massive miss-allocation of resources.

Unfortunately it's water under the bridge.

We could could debate this for days but the bottom line is pretty simple.

RBs only go in the top 4 if you think they are the second coming of Adrian Peterson.................if Zeke is not, then it was a major blunder

 

[TheRomoSexual]

There's actually no dumber argument than to craft up a strawman ("to take a successful NFL player and say they were a highly-touted prospect [...]" to knockdown.

You're out of your depth...

You implied Murray and Gore were similar prospects as Zeke. They simply weren't, and to think otherwise displays a shocking degree of ignorance about the draft.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

Cute. I bet you're thinking this a real witty argument aren't you little one?

What are you using as your measure of "success?" Don't be a simpleton and say interceptions either. Comparing the two positions (CB to RB) is apples-to-oranges btw.

Once you've forwarded a legitimate metric, you'll have to prove historically that "successful" cornerbacks can be found anywhere in terms of draft pedigree at the same rate as RBs have shown to be.

Go.

See, that's your issue. I just listed five of the top 15 CBs, but you need numbers to confirm what any knowledgable fan knows.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

I hate to re-litigate this...but it's not even comparable. RB is the single biggest position you can get productivity later in the draft and with more consistency. RB is also the most highly injured position in football. So now you're investing greater draft and monetary resources into a position that gets injured more frequently. RB is also the position with the shortest shelf life and earliest peak age. So now you're investing greater draft and monetary resources into a position that gets injured more frequently, peaks early and declines rapidly and is very rarely worth a large 2nd deal. RB is also the position that is most dependent on his line being able to block and his quarterback being feared enough to back up the linebacker. So now your'e investing greater draft and monetary resources into a position that gets injured more frequently, peaks early and declines rapidly, is very rarely worth a large 2nd deal and whose production is dependent on consistently good performance of the offensive line and quarterback.

Zeke has to be an All-Pro type performer for a decade for him to be worth his selection. The odds are very much against that happening for the stated reasons.

Again we could have had Morris and Lamar Miller for half the cost of Zeke while adding an elite talent on the defensive side of the ball. Or we could have had Morris and Matt Forte for a third of the cost of Zeke while adding an elite talent on the defensive side of the ball. When you look at that comparison...there is no comparison. Massive miss-allocation of resources.

Unfortunately it's water under the bridge.

I agree with some of your argument, but not its basic premise, namely, that you think Zeke wasn't worth a high pick because you can get RB productivity later in the draft. I believe this categorization is a misnomer based on the fact that RB metrics are easily quantifiable; basically, if you take any decent RB prospect, give them enough carries and open holes, they are going to get yards. But it is the elite prospects that can do something more, make a defense adjust to their presence on the field. Peterson, LT, Lynch, Edgerrin James. The elite prospects make a difference beyond just yardage, same with any position -- you can find someone to play cornerback anywhere in the draft, but Peterson and Richard Sherman are going to lock down their side of a field, forcing the offense to adjust significantly. I personally think Zeke is one of those elite prospects with that potential.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

See, that's your issue. I just listed five of the top 15 CBs, but you need numbers to confirm what any knowledgable fan knows.

No, I didn't remotely imply that. You're simply trying to make up a new angle to divert away from the real argument and try to hang your hat on; i.e. a strawman.

As to your contention about CBs...again, I'm seeing your limited capacity. I'll be glad to take up the argument if you can provide metrics and rationale used to determine what a "successful" CB is.

It's not surprising you fold up when asked for evidence; a hallmark of someone that talks out their arse.