Drafting Under Jason Garrett

[BigStar]

The drafting looks improved as a result of Tyron and Frederick. Claiborne is a ? but liked what the team did initially by trading up. Lee is the only 2nd rounder worthy of discussion, and he can't remain on the field. This team has gotten better @ landing the 1st round pick. Drafting in general has been average at best. No late round contributors outside of Harris and Holloman. UDFA's are a different story. Bailey and Leary were good finds. Very limited Defensive talent the last 3 seasons. Ware, Lee, and Spencer were the foundation. Age and injury took away those pieces and this team must find a new core to build upon.

 

[BigStar]

this is where i credit Rod more than anyone else.

Spencer should've been the only surprise on the org's part and that was a result of their own doing by franchising him the 2nd year in a row as result of poor drafts/planning. Rat shouldn't have ever been considered as a central figure for the 2013 season after his physical brush with JJ and lack of communication with the team. Ware was dinged up but played @ a high level early in the season (showed signs of slowing down in 2012 as well) age. This '20 DL line' is really speaking more to "almost contributors" like Bass, Crawford, and Brent. The rest were street DL that simply got injured almost immediately after being signed. Let's get real about this. Mo's injury effected the team more than any injury to the 15 street DL that washed out. Lee, Mo, and Spencer. Those were the injuries the D faced last season (not ideal but not unheard of)

 

[CyberB0b]

Before the 2012 draft, they had a front 5 of Ware, Spencer, Ratliff, Hatcher, Josh Brent and then they draft Crawford and Wilber. Lissemore was in there also.

A year and a half later, Ware was barely functional, Spencer and Crawford were out, the scheme change got Lissemore and Wilber ended up as a LB instead of moving to the DL. Ratliff flaked out. Josh Brent killed somebody.

It was really hard to prepare to that situation. About the only thing you could say they should have done differently was to draft a DL over Escobar, but any DL that were on their board for that pick were gone. They could have reached for a guy like the DE/OLB that went to Houston and was released a few months later.

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that most players entering their 30's are going to start to decline/

 

[ConstantReboot]

Before the 2012 draft, they had a front 5 of Ware, Spencer, Ratliff, Hatcher, Josh Brent and then they draft Crawford and Wilber. Lissemore was in there also.

A year and a half later, Ware was barely functional, Spencer and Crawford were out, the scheme change got Lissemore and Wilber ended up as a LB instead of moving to the DL. Ratliff flaked out. Josh Brent killed somebody.

It was really hard to prepare to that situation. About the only thing you could say they should have done differently was to draft a DL over Escobar, but any DL that were on their board for that pick were gone. They could have reached for a guy like the DE/OLB that went to Houston and was released a few months later.

No they could have gone Oline. There was still guards that was available when we picked that could still be starting for us right now. The Escobar pick seems to be a Garrett pick and I think we could have had him in the 3rd round instead.

I blame Garrett for not fixing our OIine sooner. So he doesn't get a pass from me. When you cut Gurode and replace him with a rookie UDFA in Costa - and leaving that position unattended to for many years until Jerry had to step in and pick Fred; Garrett should not be getting a pass at all for the draft.

 

[xwalker]

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that most players entering their 30's are going to start to decline/

No, but they did draft players for those positions in 2012. There are only so many positions available on the roster each year.

 

[xwalker]

No they could have gone Oline. There was still guards that was available when we picked that could still be starting for us right now. The Escobar pick seems to be a Garrett pick and I think we could have had him in the 3rd round instead.

I blame Garrett for not fixing our OIine sooner. So he doesn't get a pass from me. When you cut Gurode and replace him with a rookie UDFA in Costa - and leaving that position unattended to for many years until Jerry had to step in and pick Fred; Garrett should not be getting a pass at all for the draft.

The discussion was about the defense.

 

[ShiningStar]

I don't think that's what I meant, or maybe I did depending on what you meant.

Who's on first...

I was just being funny, i got what you meant, but i think it would be a shock for the fan whos not paying attention.

 

[visionary]

So is this one of those threads where we pretend Garrett has power and talent acquisition has been great ?

BTW we will also need to pretend that fiasco in the draft room last year was Garrett's doing and he was pissed off at himself for over-ruling himself

In that case, just so I am clear, Will Mcclay is not running the draft board if is Garrett?

Of course we will also need to pretend that the order of importance in the draft room will be Garrett > McClay> ciskowski > Jerry > Stephen

Does that sound about right?

 

[Doomsday101]

I have no issue with the drafts under Garrett but it is not enough to draft a player you have to develop that player and get him to play to his max. I like Garrett but part of coaching is getting the most out of a guy to push them to be the best player they can.

 

[burmafrd]

The discussion was about the defense.

this thread is about drafting for the TEAM.

Those claiming that players that went elsewhere for whatever reason eventually should count. As regards the DRAFT itself that is true; but looking at the whole picture frankly if they are not here they do not matter.

Starting in at least 2011 we should have been thinking about our aging DL. We did not.

 

[TheFinisher]

Compare this to 2007, 2008, and 2009. Wade's first three years inheriting a better team.

I can't blame Wade for the 2009 class. I'd bet you whatever you wanna do that he was not the one pulling the strings on the Roy Williams deal, and you know that's truth.

 

[ConstantReboot]

The discussion was about the defense.

The discussion was about drafting under Garrett. I already know that our D has been neglected. I also wanted to point out that Garrett also neglected the Oline for many years until Jerry came in and got Fred despite Garrett not wanting that too happen.

Drafting under Garrett hasn't been that great in my opinion. Thus the reason why I brought up the Oline.

 

[casmith07]

Smith is terrific.

Bruce Carter played well in 2012. If he showed that he can play in the NFL, then I would say the scouts did OK. The blame for 2013 would be on the coaching staff or scheme change both of which are out of the control of the scouting dept.

Murray is terrific for a 3rd round pick.

Arkin was a huge mistake.

Josh Thomas is still in the NFL. The scouting dept. should get a passing grade on him.

Harris has been a very good 6th round pick.

Chapas is a fail, but it's the 7th round.

Nagy was actually a good pick by the scouting dept. He would have been at least an NFL backup if not for the injury.

I don't think they missed on Claiborne's talent, but they failed to properly evaluate his mental makeup. The Wonderlic should have been a clue.

Crawford was not an injury risk player in the draft, so I can't blame that on the scouting dept.

Wilber play quite a few snaps in 2013, so I'll give them a break even on that pick.

They seemed to be correct on Matt Johnson's talent according to the coaching staff; however, he was an injury risk when drafted.

Danny Coale failed due to injury. I don't think he had any injury issues when drafted.

James Hanna played a lot of snaps in 2013. That's probably enough to get a passing grade on a 6th round pick.

McSurdy was a terrible pick, IMO. He just didn't have NFL athleticism. They could have picked Vontaze Burfit in that spot.

This one could end up being terrific.

Frederick was very good at Center which is a difficult position for a rookie. Center is also a very difficult position to fill. Quality Centers are rarely if ever available in free agency.

Escobar could be following the Witten path. Witten was not a good blocker as a rookie either. Escobar has shown terrific hands and better than expected athleticism.

Wiilams was a good as you can possibly expect for a 3rd round rookie WR.

I think Wilcox has excellent upside. They had to know that he was unlikely to be ready as a rookie after only playing defense for 1 year in college.

Webb is a big question mark. I didn't see much from him and he does not have much size.

Randle is an incomplete also. He didn't play enough for a good evaluation.

Holloman exceeded expectations for a rookie 6th round pick.

Fair analysis.

 

[xwalker]

The discussion was about drafting under Garrett. I already know that our D has been neglected. I also wanted to point out that Garrett also neglected the Oline for many years until Jerry came in and got Fred despite Garrett not wanting that too happen.

Drafting under Garrett hasn't been that great in my opinion. Thus the reason why I brought up the Oline.

I responded to someone specifically about the defense. Then you responded to my response.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

While the OP scored on at least looking at our drafts, the bigger picture, (even for me) is who was available when and where, by that i mean, if we took play x while player A was still there and passed up on a talent or a bust, than the draft holds another grade.

For the sake of arguing for the sake of arguing. Except for later rounds being later rounds Garrett has brought in some staying power. Smith and Frederick are here to stay. while both Wade and Jason have coached on the shoulders of Romo, that credit going to Sean Payton. I personally no longer look at the drafts as a whole, but who you brought in to help the team for years to come whether you got the best out of them or the next coach. Frankly stating, you are going to have busts and super stars of the draft, but the staying power may not be either, just may be a solid player who has done enough to stay on the roster, but hasnt been uber talented or in the right position, (WRs and RBs receive more praise than the players who made the play) and its those guys that the unsung heroes of a driving force.

you are not going to draft superstars every year. almost nobody does, except in short stints. no team has loaded with a bunch of super stars as much as people want to make them.

if you are good, you are going to draft superstars, little more really good players, and a bunch of good players. the factor being when you have some superstars and good players, it makes the rest (average to good ones) look really good. is our secondary as bad as it looked last year? no. but given the DL we had, it made them look bad. put a good DL in front of them and they look hell of a lot better.

and regarding the first comment, everyone grades the draft eventually down the line, however, the questions is how did we draft against our draft board. for example if a Floyd is #7 on the board, yet at 20 we don't take him. I ask why? but if a player is ranked lower and we don't take him, yet the fandom thinks the guy is the greatest thing since slice bread. I don't put much solace to that. if a guy ranked lower on our board but turned out great 3 years down the line, I will say we need to reevaluate our talent evaluation process.

 

[xwalker]

I was just being funny, i got what you meant, but i think it would be a shock for the fan whos not paying attention.

Yep, I tried to respond with a little humor also.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

You can have all kind of discussions about Garrett and his coaching. But the draft seems to be one thing he does not have alot of influence in. I expect a different feel to this years draft. To go along with what seems to be a new philosophy about free agants and money, there's been a shakeup in who is setting up the draft board. I get the feeling that after the failure of late in spending two picks on Claiborne and then the Travis Frederick debacle, Jerry may be giving up some decision making to his son in the draft room and taking the reins off of his son oversee the draft. At least this year.

I think the Cowboys are going to have a pretty good draft.

how could a coach not have influence over the draft? perhaps not on draft day and making trades. however every head coach is directly involved in building the draft board. scouts bring evaluations to the table and the coaches, GM, etc. build the board. and why is Fredrick pick a debacle. the player is working out fine. but we got paid too little for it. we also didn't pay too much to get Claiborne. the questions is our talent evaluation process, ranking him as the top defensive player on our board.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Before the 2012 draft, they had a front 5 of Ware, Spencer, Ratliff, Hatcher, Josh Brent and then they draft Crawford and Wilber. Lissemore was in there also.

A year and a half later, Ware was barely functional, Spencer and Crawford were out, the scheme change got Lissemore and Wilber ended up as a LB instead of moving to the DL. Ratliff flaked out. Josh Brent killed somebody.

It was really hard to prepare to that situation. About the only thing you could say they should have done differently was to draft a DL over Escobar, but any DL that were on their board for that pick were gone. They could have reached for a guy like the DE/OLB that went to Houston and was released a few months later.

but as he said. the head coach is responsible for all of that. he should have known about brent and Ratliff. and why wasn't he prepared for spencer, ware and Crawford injuries. and why would he allow jerry to sell him on change of scheme so that lissemore and Wilbur would be wasted.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

this thread is about drafting for the TEAM.

Those claiming that players that went elsewhere for whatever reason eventually should count. As regards the DRAFT itself that is true; but looking at the whole picture frankly if they are not here they do not matter.

Starting in at least 2011 we should have been thinking about our aging DL. We did not.

You could probably add a couple years before 2011 when it comes to drafting defensive linemen.

They simply have not drafted many.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The drafting looks improved as a result of Tyron and Frederick. Claiborne is a ? but liked what the team did initially by trading up. Lee is the only 2nd rounder worthy of discussion, and he can't remain on the field. This team has gotten better @ landing the 1st round pick. Drafting in general has been average at best. No late round contributors outside of Harris and Holloman. UDFA's are a different story. Bailey and Leary were good finds. Very limited Defensive talent the last 3 seasons. Ware, Lee, and Spencer were the foundation. Age and injury took away those pieces and this team must find a new core to build upon.

so you think much of
Williams
Murray
Dez


and its about talent acquisition, so we have to include all the UDFAs in that list as well.


and to your point, we have had issues finding the right Defensive players. it seems like that's been an issue for at least the pat 10 years.