Drafting Under Jason Garrett

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The discussion was about drafting under Garrett. I already know that our D has been neglected. I also wanted to point out that Garrett also neglected the Oline for many years until Jerry came in and got Fred despite Garrett not wanting that too happen.

Drafting under Garrett hasn't been that great in my opinion. Thus the reason why I brought up the Oline.

garrett drafted Smith. first time in a long long time we drafted OL in the first round and first time ever for us drafting OL in the top 10.

Garrett wanted us to stay with draft board, when Floyd who was ranked #7 on our board was available at #20. but jerry wanted to wheel and deal. Garrett was on board with Fredrick, because he knew he needed to solidify the middle of the line. Not sure I disagree with that. you have to follow your draft board.

not sure where you get garrett didn't want Fredrick. but one of those Myth's that becomes people's reality and "fact" after a while because its repeated enough times.

 

[xwalker]

but as he said. the head coach is responsible for all of that. he should have known about brent and Ratliff. and why wasn't he prepared for spencer, ware and Crawford injuries. and why would he allow jerry to sell him on change of scheme so that lissemore and Wilbur would be wasted.

I don't think you make scheme decisions based on LIssemore and an unproven rookie 4th round pick.

Wilber is not wasted. He was decent as a SLB in 2013 despite not practicing that position in TC.

You can't be 100% prepared for all injury issues. If you had 10 injuries with each at different positions, you should be prepared; however, when you have multiple injuries at the same positions you can never have that much depth. Most 4-3 team only carry 8 DL. Spencer, Crawford, Ratliff, Bass and Ware were 5 of 8 spots. Selvie was good, so really that was 2 spots that were weak beyond the injured players. Hayden is not a great backup, but he was terrible because he played with an injury all season.

It was similar last season at Center. The top 3 or 4 guys were injured and they had to scramble to find Cook. No team is 5 deep at Center.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

So is this one of those threads where we pretend Garrett has power and talent acquisition has been great ?

BTW we will also need to pretend that fiasco in the draft room last year was Garrett's doing and he was pissed off at himself for over-ruling himself

In that case, just so I am clear, Will Mcclay is not running the draft board if is Garrett?

Of course we will also need to pretend that the order of importance in the draft room will be Garrett > McClay> ciskowski > Jerry > Stephen

Does that sound about right?

no, not great. better. can't deny 2007-2009 sucked.

the fiasco was that Floyd, ranked #7 on our board was there at 20 and we passed on him. a mistake IMO. you build your draft board and you go to the draft with that in hand. if the player doesn't work out, based on your evaluation, its not the draft, but the evaluation process.

the draft board is not built in a vaccum, its a process in which coaches, gm, scouts participate. as a group. the GM runs the draft day draft room. as obvious he has ultimate say over everything. without a strong voice to oppose our wonderful GM, we have seen the draft turn into shiets. that is undeniable. even the great parcells couldn't get his way with Jerry, but provided a strong voice to keep him focused and inline. compare that to campo and wade. check the results for yourself.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I don't think you make scheme decisions based on LIssemore and an unproven rookie 4th round pick.

Wilber is not wasted. He was decent as a SLB in 2013 despite not practicing that position in TC.

You can't be 100% prepared for all injury issues. If you had 10 injuries with each at different positions, you should be prepared; however, when you have multiple injuries at the same positions you can never have that much depth. Most 4-3 team only carry 8 DL. Spencer, Crawford, Ratliff, Bass and Ware were 5 of 8 spots. Selvie was good, so really that was 2 spots that were weak beyond the injured players. Hayden is not a great backup, but he was terrible because he played with an injury all season.

It was similar last season at Center. The top 3 or 4 guys were injured and they had to scramble to find Cook. No team is 5 deep at Center.

it was evident from my post. I wanted to be sarcastic. I agree with your statement. no one can plan to deal with disasters. you can try and mitigate by having depth, but when your depth gets injured as well, you are shiet out of luck

 

[xwalker]

it was evident from my post. I wanted to be sarcastic. I agree with your statement. no one can plan to deal with disasters. you can try and mitigate by having depth, but when your depth gets injured as well, you are shiet out of luck

OK, sounds like we agree.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I have no issue with the drafts under Garrett but it is not enough to draft a player you have to develop that player and get him to play to his max. I like Garrett but part of coaching is getting the most out of a guy to push them to be the best player they can.

I can't argue with that. getting the right talent is one thing. getting the most out of them is another.

 

[Doomsday101]

I can't argue with that. getting the right talent is one thing. getting the most out of them is another.

all college players come into the league with some things they need to work on and develop, few are finished products coming into the NFL.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I tend to think Garrett is doing a better job of drafting and scouting than some of his predecessors. My main beef with Garrett is his horrendous game management, the worst I have ever seen at the professional level. We have literally lost 1-2 games per season due to his botched end of game management.........but I digress, this is all well documented and discussed before.

As for draft class, 2011 is looking good.

2012 all depends on Claiborne. If you trade both your 1st and 2nd round picks to move up and the guy you draft turns out to be a jag..........EPIC FAIL.

2013 is looking good with both a starting center and starting WR from that class.

2014...............fingers crossed we get Barr or Donald.

 

[WhizKid]

There has been a feeling that Jason Garrett has been putting together good drafts while Head Coach, and while his game management issues have been documented, many point to the way he's been putting together a young core through the draft as his real value to this team. However, looking over his 3 classes I think it's okay, but nothing really to feel overjoyed about.


2012 Draft
RoundPick #OverallNamePositionCollege
166Morris ClaiborneCornerbackLouisiana State
31881Tyrone CrawfordDefensive EndBoise State
418113Kyle WilberLinebackerWake Forest
440135Matt JohnsonSafetyEastern Washington
517152Danny CoaleWide ReceiverVirginia Tech
616186James HannaTight EndOklahoma
715222Caleb McSurdyLinebackerMontana

This class is why we have so many holes on our defense. We drafted 4 defensive players in the first 4 rounds, and that should have given us at the very least some productive talent. Unfortunately, Claiborne is looking like a massive bust and those other names have not been able to get on the field. While there is still time for them to turn it around, it's now year 3 and it has to happen soon. Right now, it doesn't look promising.

Grade: D(F if Claiborne can't turn it around)

The jury, I believe, is still out on this class. This year being the defining year. It's year 3 and at least the top 4 picks should all have some kind of contributing role on this team. If the pass rush steps up(still unknown) Mo should have a much better year, along with being in his second year in the system. We are likely to get to see Crawford in action; and players like Wilber have found a role in the defense as SAM LBer, rotating or starting. Matt Johnson, like Crawford, will hopefully stay healthy enough to see what he has got. He could very well turn into some good depth at the position. Also, Hanna is the backup and maybe we could get some useful play out of him this year, utilizing his speed at the TE position against sloer LBers. It'd be interesting to see how these guys advance this season. If they pan out, this could very well be a B draft, if not then a D. We should get some answers this season.

 

[ConstantReboot]

I responded to someone specifically about the defense. Then you responded to my response.

Ah okay.....response duly noted. Cheers!

 

[ConstantReboot]

I tend to think Garrett is doing a better job of drafting and scouting than some of his predecessors. My main beef with Garrett is his horrendous game management, the worst I have ever seen at the professional level. We have literally lost 1-2 games per season due to his botched end of game management.........but I digress, this is all well documented and discussed before.

As for draft class, 2011 is looking good.

2012 all depends on Claiborne. If you trade both your 1st and 2nd round picks to move up and the guy you draft turns out to be a jag..........EPIC FAIL.

2013 is looking good with both a starting center and starting WR from that class.

2014...............fingers crossed we get Barr or Donald.

If we get Barr or Donald I'd be ecstatic. I'd be happy with Demarcus Lawrence, Ealy or Crichton in the 2nd round.

 

[xwalker]

no, not great. better. can't deny 2007-2009 sucked.

the fiasco was that Floyd, ranked #7 on our board was there at 20 and we passed on him. a mistake IMO. you build your draft board and you go to the draft with that in hand. if the player doesn't work out, based on your evaluation, its not the draft, but the evaluation process.

the draft board is not built in a vaccum, its a process in which coaches, gm, scouts participate. as a group. the GM runs the draft day draft room. as obvious he has ultimate say over everything. without a strong voice to oppose our wonderful GM, we have seen the draft turn into shiets. that is undeniable. even the great parcells couldn't get his way with Jerry, but provided a strong voice to keep him focused and inline. compare that to campo and wade. check the results for yourself.

It was a fiasco from the standpoint that it shouldn't have happen that way.

The end result of getting Frederick was far from a fiasco. He was very good at a very difficult position to fill.

Floyd appears to be more of a 1-tech in Marinelli's scheme, an everybody agrees that is not the most critical position.

The problem in 2013 was the apparently the draft board was put together in a vacuum. If Ciscowski had been through all of the defensive prospects with the defensive coaches, then they wouldn't have had the last minute draft room episode.

There is a reason that McClay is now in charge of the draft board and not Ciscowski.

 

[ConstantReboot]

garrett drafted Smith. first time in a long long time we drafted OL in the first round and first time ever for us drafting OL in the top 10.

Garrett wanted us to stay with draft board, when Floyd who was ranked #7 on our board was available at #20. but jerry wanted to wheel and deal. Garrett was on board with Fredrick, because he knew he needed to solidify the middle of the line. Not sure I disagree with that. you have to follow your draft board.

not sure where you get garrett didn't want Fredrick. but one of those Myth's that becomes people's reality and "fact" after a while because its repeated enough times.

I'm not sure that Garrett wanted Smith or not because there was already talk that Jerry didn't want to resign Adams. Thus Smith was a possibly a draft due to necessity rather than Garrett thinking we needed Oline help.

Lets face it. If Garrett really thought he needed help in the Oline we would have drafted better oline prospects and not the scrub players in Costa, Aiken, and Nagy. We even went with scrub signings with Berny and that other guard we just cut - which for the likes of me I can't remember his name.

It took Garrett just a whole 3 years to get us a dependable center and it was not his first choice to begin with.

Thus I really don't think that Garrett puts a lot of value in having a good oline. As for Smith, it just seems that that was a Jerry pick due to people bringing up the point that we need oline help. Also, why hasn't anyone brought up Felix Jones? Didn't Garrett have influence over that pick as well?

 

[visionary]

garrett drafted Smith.

Garrett was on board with Fredrick, ....
.

How do you know either of these things ?

Isn't it much more likely that the major decision-maker (Jerry) made those decisions and not Garrett?

People just want to give garret credit for good picks to make themselves feel better about the direction of the franchise and the process when the reality is that things are still just hit or miss like in the past

Jerry has the power
Garrett is a yes man cashing his millions

 

[basstapp]

If your not going to credit him smith, you can't hold Claiborne over his head. He was touted the best db to come in the nfl since sanders. I think he will be a top 12 db this year if he stays healthy

 

[big dog cowboy]

My main beef with Garrett is his horrendous game management, the worst I have ever seen at the professional level. We have literally lost 1-2 games per season due to his botched end of game management.........but I digress, this is all well documented and discussed before.

Why the shot at Garretts coaching abilities again? Yes your point of view is well documented and has been discussed at length before and now you are only trolling. Please stop.

 

[TrailBlazer]

If Dallas drafted as well as some JG-supporters would have you believe, then they wouldn't have so many holes on the defense.

UDFA's have been a pleasant surprise, but I'd rather hit on first day picks.

I don't think JG has much to do with who gets drafted after the first few rounds, anyway. Certainly not the UDFA's. Thats the scouts.

 

[OhSnap]

They look more sketchy than not mainly because of playing time and probably the def. switch but the only ones that you can clearly see are busts are already gone. Someone might get the impression your not giving Garrett a fair shake if you toss out the Smith pick because it was a success and credit the Claiborne pick to his bust column.

 

[Dodger12]

Exactly, you have to consider players like Cole Beasley (UDFA, 2012) in this conversation as well.

I don't have to look at UFA's who can make a weak roster because we can't draft. The fact that we can call retired guys off the couch who come in, immediately start and play better than players currently on our roster tells me all I need to know.

 

[BigStar]

so you think much of
Williams
Murray
Dez


and its about talent acquisition, so we have to include all the UDFAs in that list as well.


and to your point, we have had issues finding the right Defensive players. it seems like that's been an issue for at least the pat 10 years.

I thought we were only covering 2011-2013? Love TW's potential and one of the bigger Dez/Murray supporters as well though. Murray would have a better case if this team used him when he's healthy. I included Bailey and Leary (UDFAs).