Drafting Zeke was football stupid

[KJJ]

Yep. You could probably read that comment you believe you saw earlier and get the info you're looking for. My position hasn't changed since before the draft. I think the OL makes the RB in Dallas and not the other way around. I think it was a good draft for RBs. Zeke's pretty much exactly on the trajectory I said I felt he needed to be on to justify picking him at #4. I'm thrilled that he is, but I still think it was a poor tactical use of resources if you're comparing him to a defensive play maker.

To be really clear, because I know this is going to come up all season: Zeke's productivity is not surprising. He's doing what he ought to do, given how the deck was stacked in his favor. I like the player, I like watching him run. I love his pass protection. I love what he brings to the offense in terms of his temperament. And I'd still take an impact defender over a RB every single time.

If the OL makes the RB in Dallas than what happened last season with the backs we had? We went though several of them and none were consistent. CMike has looked better in Seattle than he did with us. The back matters and I've heard enough from those in the know to know it's true. The Rams OL back in the day that had Jackie Slater never got noticed until Eric Dickerson came along. Slater himself said that. He pointed out how all of a sudden their OL started receiving some credit having a great runner behind it. OJ never had a great OL with Buffalo. Barry Sanders never had a great OL but that didn't stop him from producing. Never heard anything special about the Oilers OL until Earl Campbell came along. The Cowboys have a great OL but the backs they had last season made it appear the OL struggled. Zeke is a special back and we're seeing what a special back can do behind this OL.

He didn't look good the first two weeks despite our great OL because he missed a lot of camp and preseason. It took some time for him to adapt. Morris hasn't done much, only averaging 3.9 a carry but Zeke is a beast! There isn't anything you can point to that says drafting him was a mistake. It's not like he's been running through gaping holes, he's broke a number of tackles and pushed some piles. He's running over defenders so don't try and give all the credit to the OL. The OL certainly makes a difference but not any runner can do what Zeke is doing behind our OL and that was proven last season and it's been proven with Morris this season.

 

[KJJ]

To be really clear, because I know this is going to come up all season: Zeke's productivity is not surprising. He's doing what he ought to do, given how the deck was stacked in his favor. I like the player, I like watching him run. I love his pass protection. I love what he brings to the offense in terms of his temperament. And I'd still take an impact defender over a RB every single time.

How was the deck staked in his favor with Romo going down and having a rookie QB take over? Last season most used Romo going down as the excuse for our running game not being as good as in 2014. They blamed our backup QBs for us not being able to run as efficiently. As for Zeke's productivity, doubt anyone thought he would be leading the league in rushing.

 

[Idgit]

If the OL makes the RB in Dallas than what happened last season with the backs we had? We went though several of them and none were consistent. CMike has looked better in Seattle than he did with us. The back matters and I've heard enough from those in the know to know it's true. The Rams OL back in the day that had Jackie Slater never got noticed until Eric Dickerson came along. Slater himself said that. He pointed out how all of a sudden their OL started receiving some credit having a great runner behind it. OJ never had a great OL with Buffalo. Barry Sanders never had a great OL but that didn't stop him from producing. Never heard anything special about the Oilers OL until Earl Campbell came along. The Cowboys have a great OL but the backs they had last season made it appear the OL struggled. Zeke is a special back and we're seeing what a special back can do behind this OL.

He didn't look good the first two weeks despite our great OL because he missed a lot of camp and preseason. It took some time for him to adapt. Morris hasn't done much, only averaging 3.9 a carry but Zeke is a beast! There isn't anything you can point to that says drafting him was a mistake. It's not like he's been running through gaping holes, he's broke a number of tackles and pushed some piles. He's running over defenders so don't try and give all the credit to the OL. The OL certainly makes a difference but not any runner can do what Zeke is doing behind our OL and that was proven last season and it's been proven with Morris this season.

I don't really want to rehash it all, but Joseph Randle played well early, gradually finished losing his mind, and then McFadden took over and was very productive. Despite the lack of a competent QB. We've hashed this all over in the offseason already, right? And I"m not trying to say it's *all* OL; Zeke's a great player in his own right. But a lot of what Zeke's doing is because he's in such a great position to do it.

We blew it going into 2015 not handicapping the position for sure (and I said that at the time, too). But there were players there. David Johnson was one I was intrigued with, and he's netting 5.0 YPC over in AZ again this season. He'd be a star in the same role in Dallas. There were guys available this year, too, if we didn't want to spend the #4 overall on a position we could have filled in the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

[Idgit]

How was the deck staked in his favor with Romo going down and having a rookie QB take over? Last season most used Romo going down as the excuse for our running game not being as good as in 2014. They blamed our backup QBs for us not being able to run as efficiently. As for Zeke's productivity doubt anyone thought he would be leading the league in rushing.

You can answer this one yourself, but it's pretty obvious.

 

[KJJ]

I don't really want to rehash it all, but Joseph Randle played well early, gradually finished losing his mind, and then McFadden took over and was very productive. Despite the lack of a competent QB. We've hashed this all over in the offseason already, right? And I"m not trying to say it's *all* OL; Zeke's a great player in his own right. But a lot of what Zeke's doing is because he's in such a great position to do it.

We blew it going into 2015 not handicapping the position for sure (and I said that at the time, too). But there were players there. David Johnson was one I was intrigued with, and he's netting 5.0 YPC over in AZ again this season. He'd be a star in the same role in Dallas. There were guys available this year, too, if we didn't want to spend the #4 overall on a position we could have filled in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Both Randle and McFadden were inconsistent. Randle would run out of gas after the first half. He had almost 100 yards in the first half vs Atlanta and literally went backwards in the second half. McFadden was up and down, one big game followed by nothing the following week. He averaged only 1.9 per carry in 17 attempts vs Tampa and 1.1 a carry vs Carolina on 10 attempts. We lost both games. If he was "very productive" we wouldn't have drafted Zeke. It's people like you who thought he was very productive that had the most issues with the Cowboys drafting Zeke. We hashed all this but I'm addressing some recent comments.

Hard to let a comment go that drafting Zeke was a mistake with as well as he and the team have played. What RB's could we have had last April that are producing big now? The best seasons the Cowboys have had in their history were with special backs like Dorsett and Emmitt. Zeke has a chance to be listed with those backs, health permitting.

 

[KJJ]

You can answer this one yourself, but it's pretty obvious.

I was asking you? lol Were you saying in August when Romo went down that the deck was stacked in Zeke's favor? Did many on the board not use Romo's injury as an excuse for our running game not being what it was in 2014? They talked about the threat Romo gave us in the passing game that opened things up in the running game. Dak would be going through some struggles without the threat of an explosive back like Zeke. It's made the read option effective helping Dak rush for 3 TD's.

The defense has to respect his ability to run as well as Zeke's ability. Dak would be shouldering a huge load if we had some of the issues running the ball that we did last season. Our running game wasn't very good in the opener, Zeke only averaged 2.6 a carry and it contributed to the loss. Dak had his lowest passer rating game in the opener..coincidence? The better we've run the ball, the better Dak has looked. It was the same for Romo in 2014.

 

[Idgit]

I was asking you? lol Were you saying in August when Romo went down that the deck was stacked in Zeke's favor? Did many on the board not use Romo's injury as an excuse for our running game not being what it was in 2014? They talked about the threat Romo gave us in the passing game that opened things up in the running game. Dak would be going through some struggles without the threat of an explosive back like Zeke. It's made the read option effective helping Dak rush for 3 TD's.

The defense has to respect his ability to run as well as Zeke's ability. Dak would be shouldering a huge load if we had some of the issues running the ball that we did last season. Our running game wasn't very good in the opener, Zeke only averaged 2.6 a carry and it contributed to the loss. Dak had his lowest passer rating game in the opener..coincidence? The better we've run the ball, the better Dak has looked. It was the same for Romo in 2014.

You were asking me, but it's a question that answers itself, really. The deck has been stacked in Zeke's favor in Dallas because we have both very good QB play and very good OL play, period. There is no mystery.

If you're asking if I knew when Tony went down that we'd continue to have very good regular season QB play, then, I obviously did not. But then I never claimed to have said that. I said when we drafted Zeke the deck was stacked in his favor because Romo was not injured in April. I'm saying it now because we now know for a fact that we're getting good QB play with Dak. Hence, the deck is stacked in Zeke's favor. I'm not responsible for your recollections re: what 'many on the board' might have been saying. People say dumb things all the time.

Dak and Zeke have both gotten better since the opener. How much of that is improvement with experience, and how much is them helping each other out, I can't tell you. So, it doesn't have to be coincidence for your assessment to not be right.

There's no question that QBs are more effective when they have fewer yards to have to gain in order to convert. Whether that's because of the running game, the passing game, or penalties, it helps to stay ahead of the chains. That wasn't the question. The question was whether you needed to spend the #4 to get that advantage, or could you have done it more cost-effectively some other way.

Look, I get that you love Zeke. Everybody loves Zeke. We're all happy he's on the team and doing well. If you're looking for somebody to try to swim against that current, it's not me. I just don't think it was a super efficient use of resources to take any RB that high in the draft. Going into draft day, I wanted Bosa, then Ramsey, then a trade down before taking Zeke. We took him, I moved on and started rooting for him. If it's any consolation, I didn't like Zack Martin at #16, either (though the way that board broke, he was definitely the right pick). Sometimes teams do things that are tactically questionable, and they work out great. And then sometimes people just have different tactics of how they'd build a football team.

 

[KJJ]

You were asking me, but it's a question that answers itself, really. The deck has been stacked in Zeke's favor in Dallas because we have both very good QB play and very good OL play, period. There is no mystery.

If you're asking if I knew when Tony went down that we'd continue to have very good regular season QB play, then, I obviously did not. But then I never claimed to have said that. I said when we drafted Zeke the deck was stacked in his favor because Romo was not injured in April. I'm saying it now because we now know for a fact that we're getting good QB play with Dak. Hence, the deck is stacked in Zeke's favor. I'm not responsible for your recollections re: what 'many on the board' might have been saying. People say dumb things all the time.

Dak and Zeke have both gotten better since the opener. How much of that is improvement with experience, and how much is them helping each other out, I can't tell you. So, it doesn't have to be coincidence for your assessment to not be right.

There's no question that QBs are more effective when they have fewer yards to have to gain in order to convert. Whether that's because of the running game, the passing game, or penalties, it helps to stay ahead of the chains. That wasn't the question. The question was whether you needed to spend the #4 to get that advantage, or could you have done it more cost-effectively some other way.

Look, I get that you love Zeke. Everybody loves Zeke. We're all happy he's on the team and doing well. If you're looking for somebody to try to swim against that current, it's not me. I just don't think it was a super efficient use of resources to take any RB that high in the draft. Going into draft day, I wanted Bosa, then Ramsey, then a trade down before taking Zeke. We took him, I moved on and started rooting for him. If it's any consolation, I didn't like Zack Martin at #16, either (though the way that board broke, he was definitely the right pick). Sometimes teams do things that are tactically questionable, and they work out great. And then sometimes people just have different tactics of how they'd build a football team.

It's stacked in his favor now and he's a big part of the reason. The deck starts to crumble if we don't run the ball as efficiently, even if Romo were healthy and playing. Not being able to run the ball effectively helped get Romo injured last season. Both McFadden and Randle combined for under 4.0 a carry in the first 2 games. Dak had 45 attempts in the opener which is the same exact number of attempts Romo had in the opener in 2015, all due to an ineffective running game. Dak has played great but the threat and production Zeke has provided has helped him. McFadden only had 3 rushing TD's last season and Zeke already has 5 rushing TD's. Being able to run the ball in for scores has taken some pressure off Dak who's just started to throw TD's.

 

[KJJ]

Look, I get that you love Zeke. Everybody loves Zeke. We're all happy he's on the team and doing well. If you're looking for somebody to try to swim against that current, it's not me. I just don't think it was a super efficient use of resources to take any RB that high in the draft. Going into draft day, I wanted Bosa, then Ramsey, then a trade down before taking Zeke. We took him, I moved on and started rooting for him. If it's any consolation, I didn't like Zack Martin at #16, either (though the way that board broke, he was definitely the right pick). Sometimes teams do things that are tactically questionable, and they work out great. And then sometimes people just have different tactics of how they'd build a football team.

I can't find the post I saw yesterday from you (feel free to post the link) that said you still think drafting Zeke was a mistake. You're saying we're all happy Zeke is on the team but it's perplexing that you would claim drafting him was still a mistake despite how well he's played. Who could we have drafted "that was available" that would be helping the team more than he has? He's made a huge impact on this team and I don't know what player we could have drafted that would have made this kind of impact.

 

[Nightman]

Frankly it just word play still calling it a mistake.....it is a way to CYA with a strong pre-draft take that taking a RB is always a mistake....they claim impact defender and pull a David Johnson out of their butt....they also conveniently forget RShermann and JNorman

 

[DFWJC]

It'll always be a theoretical thing:
How much draft equity can be gained from the 4th overall pick (assume at least 2 mid 1st rounders)
Would that equity have been spent wisely
Would Morris plus another good back (say Howard in the 5th or Henry in the 2nd, or Miller in FA, etc) still be killing the league behind this line.

etc

One thing that isn't theoretical..at least so far...is that Zeke appears to be a great RB

At this point, the saying "a bird in hand..." applies.

 

[KJJ]

If you're asking if I knew when Tony went down that we'd continue to have very good regular season QB play, then, I obviously did not. But then I never claimed to have said that. I said when we drafted Zeke the deck was stacked in his favor because Romo was not injured in April. I'm saying it now because we now know for a fact that we're getting good QB play with Dak. Hence, the deck is stacked in Zeke's favor. I'm not responsible for your recollections re: what 'many on the board' might have been saying. People say dumb things all the time.

I don't know what you were saying about the deck being stacked in Zeke's favor back in April but you, me, Adam and several others had a pretty engaging debate about the running game and it's importance. Adam was convinced you win with the passing game. The deck didn't even look that stacked before Romo's injury when we looked at the defense and the suspensions. We were all wondering where the pass rush would come from. Our DL as whole didn't look good but our offensive play and the energy Dak has brought has energized the entire team including the defense.

 

[Idgit]

Frankly it just word play still calling it a mistake.....it is a way to CYA with a strong pre-draft take that taking a RB is always a mistake....they claim impact defender and pull a David Johnson out of their butt....they also conveniently forget RShermann and JNorman

Not sure what you're point is. Nobody ever said good players can't be found at any position lower in the draft. The draft is about playing the odds, and not about defying them. We can all be happy after when a player defies the odds and it works in our favor. But a team in massive need for a developmental QB and a pass rusher, and with multiple holes on defense doesn't need to spend it's most significant draft capital on a RB.

I know how this stuff works, because it happens every season. We're all happy the team is winning. We all are happy Zeke is an impact player. Just be pleased with that enjoy the wins. The fact that a lot of people didn't want RB at #4 is neither here nor there today. If you want, we can dig into it over the bye week some more later. Right now, it's kind of nice to just enjoy 5-1 at the 1/3rd mark.

 

[KJJ]

Not sure what you're point is. Nobody ever said good players can't be found at any position lower in the draft. The draft is about playing the odds, and not about defying them.

If you're trying to nab a special/great player in the later rounds you're attempting to defy the odds because the odds are slim. Dak looks special and it appears we defied the odds big time nabbing him in the 4th round but your best chance of coming up with a great player is in the top 10 of the draft. If you're stuck in the top 10 and there's a potentially great player of need sitting there you have to take them and Zeke was the most obvious great player on the board when we were up at #4. Drafting him has paid off.

 

[zrinkill]

It amazes me that normally smart posters are being so bulldogish on this .....

I said drafting Dak was a wasted draft pick ....... I was so totally wrong and admitted as much.

You guys who were so against the drafting of Zeke should just take your loss and admit your mistake.

Kid is probably the legit MVP of the entire NFL right now.



Jeebus.

 

[Idgit]

If you're trying to nab a special/great player in the later rounds you're attempting to defy the odds because the odds are slim. Dak looks special and it appears we defied the odds big time nabbing him in the 4th round but your best chance of coming up with a great player is in the top 10 of the draft. If you're stuck in the top 10 and there's a potentially great player of need sitting there you have to take them and Zeke was the most obvious great player on the board when we were up at #4. Drafting him has paid off.

That's actually my argument. There are potentially great players at #4 in almost every draft. And it gets harder and harder to hit on players at specific position groups the further down you go. Like it or not, QBs are harder to find than RBs, so they get taken sooner. The same with pass rushers and cover CBs. Which makes it tactically smarter to take those positions higher if you have the choice. It's crazy to think a RB has to perform at the 1500 yard/15 TD level to justify his draft position, but if you're going to take him at the expense of a Wentz or a Bosa, he pretty much has to.

Which is why I'm glad that Zeke is.

 

[Idgit]

It amazes me that normally smart posters are being so bulldogish on this .....

I said drafting Dak was a wasted draft pick ....... I was so totally wrong and admitted as much.

You guys who were so against the drafting of Zeke should just take your loss and admit your mistake.

Kid is probably the legit MVP of the entire NFL right now.

Jeebus.

The point isn't whether or not Zeke is a great player. You get that, right? I was asked whether or not I still feel that drafting Zeke where we drafted him was a dumb draft tactic.

It's the same thing about the Jaylon Smith pick. If he hits and becomes a perennial all-pro, people will dig it up and ask if I still think it was a dumb pick, and I'm going to say 'yes, because it was an unnecessary risk.' If the player pans out, the tactic looks fine in hindsight. Like I said above, I don't like taking a RB at #4. I don't like taking an OG at #16. I don't like taking a significant injury risk at #34. I'm not being pig-headed. I'm thrilled Martin and Zeke turned out great. That doesn't mean I have to like the tactics.

At the end of the day, positions aside, what matters is you get a guy who can play. I'd much rather have a RB who can play at 4 than I would a CB who can't, for example. But that's not really what I was asked.

 

[big dog cowboy]

CMike has looked better in Seattle than he did with us.

To be clear, this is his second stint with them. The fact they didn't keep him means he didn't look so good to them either.

 

[KJJ]

To be clear, this is his second stint with them. The fact they didn't keep him means he didn't look so good to them either.

They had Lynch at the time and we gave up a 7th round pick for him. So it's not like they just let him go.

 

[Risen Star]

The author here is the same guy who told me in February of that year that it would be a ridiculous reach to draft Travis Frederick at the bottom of round 1.

Yeah. So.