Drew Pearson; what is the deal?

[Plankton]

Haley jumped on board an already great Cowboys team that went 11-5 the year before with a playoff win and helped put them over the top in 92. Haley going from SF to Dallas created a shift in power which is why I'm so concerned about Murray going from Dallas to Philly. No question Haley was one of the main contributors to those great Cowboys 90's teams but he didn't grow with the team and his tenure in Dallas wasn't long enough to warrant a ROH induction. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to the ROH and prior to Haley only Chuck Howley started his career with another team. Howley started with the Bears but hardly saw the field in 58 and 59 before coming to Dallas. He established himself as a great player with the Cowboys. Every player in the ROH except for Haley will always be remembered as Dallas Cowboys.

The Cowboy team of 1991 was a good team - not great. They couldn't rush the passer or stop a run and shoot offense.

All of that changed the next year, with Haley being the most important addition.

 

[KJJ]

The Cowboy team of 1991 was a good team - not great. They couldn't rush the passer or stop a run and shoot offense.

All of that changed the next year, with Haley being the most important addition.

The 91 team was a good team but who's to say the 92 team still wouldn't have been great without Haley? Granted had the Cowboys not made the trade for Haley it might have been SF winning those 3 SB's but the Cowboys did lose to SF in the 94 title game despite having Haley. The single most important player to the Cowboys during the 90's was Emmitt Smith without him the Cowboys probably don't win any of those SB's. They started the 93 season 0-2 without Emmitt.

 

[Plankton]

The 91 team was a good team but who's to say the 92 team still wouldn't have been great without Haley? Granted had the Cowboys not made the trade for Haley it might have been SF winning those 3 SB's but the Cowboys did lose to SF in the 94 title game despite having Haley. The single most important player to the Cowboys during the 90's was Emmitt Smith without him the Cowboys probably don't win any of those SB's. They started the 93 season 0-2 without Emmitt.

That wasn't the argument. Without Haley, there wasn't a player on the DL that teams had to game plan against. Haley changed everything for them.

Not even getting into Emmitt Smith - this discussion was about Charles Haley.

 

[KJJ]

That wasn't the argument. Without Haley, there wasn't a player on the DL that teams had to game plan against. Haley changed everything for them.

Not even getting into Emmitt Smith - this discussion was about Charles Haley.

My argument was who's to say the Cowboys wouldn't have had a great team in 92 without Haley? They had been improving every year and still would have had a great team in 92 without Haley but not as great at team as they ended up having. The Cowboys were talented offensely and defensively before Haley arrived but he added an element to the defense that it lacked. He was a disruptive force that had to be game planned and his addition to the Cowboys and substractIon from SF enabled the Cowboys to dominate the 90s.

 

[landroverking]

Why do you think he is? He never made All Pro, was never the best secondary player on the team when he played, and made the Pro Bowl three times in a 12 season career. I loved Charlie Waters as much as the next guy, and thought he won the 1978 NFC Championship Game for the Cowboys with his two interceptions, but it's a stretch to say he's a Ring Of Honor guy, and there's no way he's a Hall of Famer.

Holds the record for playoff INT 9 including 3 in one playoff game.
41 career INTs top five all time.

 

[Zordon]

The earlier statement about Pearson/Harris is not true. They are the only position players on the 1970's All Decade First team to not be in. There are others on the Second Team that didn't get selected for the HOF as well.

Here's the non Hall of Famers for all of the All Decade Teams (keep in mind that the All Decade Teams for the 1920s through the 1960's were selected in 1969 in honor of the NFL's 50th season) COWBOYS AFFILIATION IN BOLD:

1920's All Decade Team - E Lavern Dilweg, G Hunk Anderson (also coached the Bears and Notre Dame)

1930's All Decade Team - QB Cecil Isbell, HB Beattie Feathers (1st player in league history to rush for 1000 yards), E Gaynell Tinsley, T Frank Cope, T George Christensen, T Bill Lee, G Ox Emerson, G Buckets Goldenberg, G Russ Letlow, G George Svendsen

1940's All Decade Team - HB Byron "Whizzer" White, FB Pat Harder, FB Bill Osmanski, E Jim Benton, E Jack Ferrante, E Ken Kavanaugh, E Mac Speedie, E Ed Sprinkle, T Al Blozis, T Bucko Kilroy (a great player who made huge contributions as a scout, was a Cowboys scout), T Buford Ray, T Vic Wears, T Al Wistert, G Bruno Banducci, G Bill Edwards, G Buster Ramsey, G Len Younce, C Charley Brock

1950's All Decade Team - FB Alan Ameche, E Bobby Watson, G Dick Barwegan, G Dick Stanfel, LB Joe Fortunato

1960's All Decade Team - HB John David Crow, SE Del Shofner, FL Gary Collins, FL Boyd Dowler, OT Ralph Neely, OG Howard Mudd (all time great OL coach as well), OG Jerry Kramer, DT Alex Karras, LB Larry Morris, LB Tommy Nobis, CB Bobby Boyd, S Eddie Meador, PK Jim Bakken, P Don Chandler

1970's All Decade Team:

First Team: WR Drew Pearson, S Cliff Harris, PK Garo Yepremian, KR Rick Upchurch
Second Team: QB Ken Stabler, WR Harold Carmichael, DE L.C. Greenwood, S Dick Anderson, PK Jim Bakken, P Jerrel Wilson, KR Billy 'White Shoes" Johnson

​

1980's All Decade Team:

First Team: OT Jimbo Covert, S Kenny Easley, PK Morten Andersen, P Sean Landeta, KR Mike Nelms, PR Billy "White Shoes" Johnson
Second Team: FB Roger Craig, OT Joe Jacoby, OG Bill Fralic, DT Keith Millard, DT Dave Butz, LB Carl Banks, LB John Anderson, CB Frank Minnifield, CB Lester Hayes, S Deron Cherry, S Joey Browner, S Nolan Cromwell, PK Gary Anderson, PK Eddie Murray, P Reggie Roby, KR Rick Upchurch, PR John Taylor

​

1990's All Decade Team:

First Team: OT Tony Boselli, LB Kevin Greene, S Steve Atwater, S LeRoy Butler, PK Morten Andersen, P Darren Bennett, KR Michael Bates
Second Team: QB Brett Favre, RB Terrell Davis, TE Ben Coates, OT Richmond Webb, OG Steve Wisniewski, C Mark Stepnoski, DE Neil Smith. DT Bryant Young, LB Hardy Nickerson, LB Cornelius Bennett, LB Levon Kirkland, S Carnell Lake, PK Gary Anderson, P Sean Landeta, PR/KR Mel Gray

​

The team for the 2000's has far too many eligible, active and non-HOF players to list.

Thank you, great post.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I still don't understand how Haley got into the ROH before Too Tall.

One of my all time favorites. Too Tall was an animal and really changed the DE position

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Waters wasn't close to a ROH or HOF player.

Thats your opinion which I disagree with.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Neither belong in the Hall of Fame. Too Tall made three Pro Bowls and was All Pro once in his career. He was a very good player, but not a great one. Waters also made three Pro Bowls, and for six seasons, he was a terrific strong safety. He struggled mightily as a cornerback, and played next to a better player who hasn't received HOF honors. Keep in mind that there are only seven players who only played safety in the Hall of Fame, and none have been selected in the last 29 years. It's a grossly under-represented position in the HOF.

If Lynn Swann can make the HOF then there is no reason why Pearson and Waters isn't

 

[Plankton]

If Lynn Swann can make the HOF then there is no reason why Pearson and Waters isn't

Pearson I agree with. Waters, I do not.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Pearson I agree with. Waters, I do not.

Ok. ........i disagree

 

[Plankton]

Ok. ........i disagree

That's fair - but Waters never made an All Pro team. Not once. Swann did do that - as well as making the 1970's All Decade Team, winning two more Super Bowls and play a huge role in the two wins over Dallas. Waters played great in the playoffs, but was never the best player in any secondary that he played in, and played a position that is way under-represented in the Hall of Fame. Waters was very good, but not Hall of Fame good.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

That's fair - but Waters never made an All Pro team. Not once. Swann did do that - as well as making the 1970's All Decade Team, winning two more Super Bowls and play a huge role in the two wins over Dallas. Waters played great in the playoffs, but was never the best player in any secondary that he played in, and played a position that is way under-represented in the Hall of Fame. Waters was very good, but not Hall of Fame good.

Again I disagree and I'm leaving it at that

 

[CowboyMike]

Spags has the perfect argument for Pearson in the HoF.

The Hall of Fame should tell the story of the NFL. Can you tell the true story without Drew Pearson?

The mere fact that Pearson participated in the very first Hail Mary is the answer to that question.

 

[BigD5]

That's fair - but Waters never made an All Pro team. Not once. Swann did do that - as well as making the 1970's All Decade Team, winning two more Super Bowls and play a huge role in the two wins over Dallas. Waters played great in the playoffs, but was never the best player in any secondary that he played in, and played a position that is way under-represented in the Hall of Fame. Waters was very good, but not Hall of Fame good.

Pro bowl and all pro selections don't really mean jack to me. It sounds good and all but the media votes on both of those selections. And as any Cowboy fan knows, there's so much cowboy hate out there it's ridiculous.

Several, SEVERAL Cowboys throughout history have been snubbed. From pro bowls, all pro teams, hall of fame, and just general recognition as a great player. Look at Tony Romo. How many non cowboy fans or media members do you know that will recognize that he is an elite Qb? When in reality he was the best Qb in the national football league last year despite having a BROKEN BACK, that you also will notice that no one will bring up or give him credit for.

How many non cowboy fans or media members will say Emmitt Smith is the GOAT RB? A lot of times Emmitt is not even mentioned in the top 10 of RBs. That's insane and absurd. Emmitt was the best RB to ever play and he has the hardware to back it up

 

[Super_Kazuya]

If Lynn Swann can make the HOF then there is no reason why Pearson and Waters isn't

Or Haley or Bettis, frankly...

 

[Plankton]

Pro bowl and all pro selections don't really mean jack to me. It sounds good and all but the media votes on both of those selections. And as any Cowboy fan knows, there's so much cowboy hate out there it's ridiculous.

Several, SEVERAL Cowboys throughout history have been snubbed. From pro bowls, all pro teams, hall of fame, and just general recognition as a great player. Look at Tony Romo. How many non cowboy fans or media members do you know that will recognize that he is an elite Qb? When in reality he was the best Qb in the national football league last year despite having a BROKEN BACK, that you also will notice that no one will bring up or give him credit for.

How many non cowboy fans or media members will say Emmitt Smith is the GOAT RB? A lot of times Emmitt is not even mentioned in the top 10 of RBs. That's insane and absurd. Emmitt was the best RB to ever play and he has the hardware to back it up

This can be said for literally every team that has players in the NFL. Look at the list I posted earlier of All Decade Team members not in the HOF. The complaints about media bias against the Cowboys is frankly overblown. If you were a fan of another team, you wouldn't view the media as being anti-Cowboy. It's all a part of a pro-Cowboy viewpoint that goes along with being a fan.

 

[KJJ]

Thats your opinion which I disagree with.

If you're going to disagree at least attempt to make an argument in favor of Waters. I can make a number of arguments against him especially for the HOF. Some of you think half the Cowboys roster through the years should be in the HOF and ROH. Charlie Waters wasn't remotely close to a HOF player it's not even debatable. Explain how a corner can be a HOF player who only made 3 pro bowls, had only 41 int's and never once made an all-pro team? There's only 24 DB's safeties/corners in the HOF and you honestly believe Charlie Waters should be amongst that elite group? You obviously don't realize what a great honor it is to be elected to the HOF. In an interview a few years ago Waters himself admitted he didn't have the speed to play corner. He said he had trouble covering fast WR's. He mentioned the roasting he took vs the Rams in 73 and how Tom Landry came to his defense saying he wished every player on the team played as hard as he did. Landry saw a lot of himself in Waters a scrappy player who was slow but was vey football savvy. Landry tried turning Waters into a all pro corner but he didn't have the speed to stay with speedy WR's so Landry converted him to strong safety where he played very well. Waters was a good tackler by necessity and was much better in coverage as a safety not having to stay with quick, fast WR's. He was like a coach on the field for the Cowboys Doomsday II defense. As a corner he needed a lot of help from Cliff Harris and even Harris couldn't keep up with Harold Jackson in that 1973 game vs the Rams. Both Harris and Waters took a lot of heat for their performance. Below is a poor quality video highlight reel of that game with no sound.

As for the ROH again Waters wasn't ROH worthy because it's a special honor that has eluded even better Cowboys players than him. The ROH was originally designed to honor the players who helped pave the way for the Cowboys championship teams which is why Don Meredith and Don Perkins were inducted. Neither were "great" NFL players but they were excellent players for the Cowboys and were part of the first real good teams the Cowboys had. As the Cowboys started winning championships the criteria for the ROH changed especially when Jerry bought the team. Every player he's added to the ROH is in the HOF except for Lee Roy Jordan. Darren Woodson will be the next player inducted into the ROH who's not in the HOF but at least a few arguments can be made for Jordan being in the HOF and even some for Woody but no argument can be made for Charlie Waters. The opinion I'm giving you is coming from someone who watched 10 of Waters 12 NFL seasons.

 

[burmafrd]

If Swann and Stallworth are in then Pearson should be in as well. There is no reason two out of three are in and one is not. Considering how much the refs allowed those two to get away with as regards offensive PI not just in the SB but elsewhere Pearson should have gone in first.

Waters- Hall of the Very Good. Same with too tall. Now Harvey Martin should be in and its a hanging offense as far as I am concerned that Howley is not in. Cornell Green is one of the handful of players that made the Pro Bowl at two different positions and should also be in.

By the way Pro Bowls up to the 90's actually meant something unlike now. ALL PRO is really the only one that means anything anymore.

 

[BigD5]

This can be said for literally every team that has players in the NFL. Look at the list I posted earlier of All Decade Team members not in the HOF. The complaints about media bias against the Cowboys is frankly overblown. If you were a fan of another team, you wouldn't view the media as being anti-Cowboy. It's all a part of a pro-Cowboy viewpoint that goes along with being a fan.

There are 11 true Cowboys players in the HOF.

ELEVEN.

As many great players and teams that the Cowboys have had and there's only 11 HOFers? That's ridiculous.

Here's a list of players that should definitely be in and I'd like to hear why you think it's fine that they aren't in the HOF.

Drew Pearson
Harvey Martin
Chuck Howley
Lee Roy Jordan
Daryl Johnston
Nate Newton
Darren Woodson
Jay Novacek
Mark Tuinei
Cliff Harris
Charlie Waters
Tom Rafferty
Ralph Neely
Jethro Pugh
Tony Hill
John Niland
Cornell Green