Dustin Vaughn Future Starter, Backup or waste of a roster spot?

CowboyChris

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Thanks for the Vid. I never seen it before.

no problem that was the last thing i remember seeing of Vaughn before the season. I happen to be from Corpus Christi where he played HS Football, I'm personally rooting for the guy, and quite honestly i thought he outplayed Weeden in the preseason.
 

Risen Star

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Someone can know more than I do, and still not know enough, Risen.

Oh trust me. You won't get any argument there.

Or they can know plenty and there's simply not enough information available to make a good decision. Personnel in the NFL comes down to Parcells old 'Whatever you do is wrong. Time is short. Now, choose' dictum. You've only got so many spaces to carry players in, and some of them aren't going to pan out. It's the nature of the business, but it doesn't mean you're behaving rationally by simply ignoring the information that they have at their disposal. Or that you can't look at what they do or do not do with personnel during a season and get some vague sense of what that information might be.

Thanks for the lesson. So you're saying all teams make mistakes in personnel? Which makes it easier than to say, gasp, the Cowboys (Go Cowboys!) make mistakes in personnel.

So then why did you feel the need to mention the team likes him when you were asked what you think of the player?

And you're still missing the actual point. I'm not saying the QB is good because he's still on the roster. All I've said is that all we know about the guy since camp is that the team likes him better than several other rookies they've waived in his place. And that, for a backup QB who's not going to take any snaps this season, that says something about how they have him graded. They might be wrong, but the fact that they have relatively high regard for him as a QB3-level player rather than having low regard for him (and hence they'd likely have cut him when we needed a roster spot for a DL or CB this season), does, in fact, tell you something.

Once again you want to attach his roster spot to a tangible reason for hope. The problem here is that any Cowboys fan who pays attention knows that doesn't mean anything. We've cornered the market on carrying bad players on our roster. Stephen McGee was here for years. What did it mean? Nothing. Brandon Weeden is here now as the backup QB to a guy the team knew was entering the season with serious back issues. He might be the worst QB in the entire league. He's certainly in the running.

Why couldn't you just answer the question asked? What YOU think of the player.

I think the reason is you don't think. You simply rubber stamp everything the team does under the guise of fair and balanced.

And try to bump keyboards with someone who does think and has been and will continue to be far more right than you'll ever be. Because you don't think. The only time you'll be an enlightening read is when the Cowboys are back at the top again. Then all your support will be just and correct.

Of course, it only tells you something if you're willing to admit that our pro scouting department has access to data about the player that you do not. The fact that you won't admit that simple, obvious fact is, of course...absurd.

All teams have pro scouting departments. All teams have had good and bad players on the rosters. None of this has anything to do with the question of what do I think of the player.

See, it simply isn't relevant. Hey Risen Star, what do you think of Dustin Vaughn? Well, the team obviously likes him and our pro scouting department has info on him I don't.

That's weak. That's a fan who doesn't think. That's someone who just wants to support everything the team does. It was a worthless response, if I'm being honest.

Your clarification about Romo and doing it now is also a gem. Anybody *not* in favor of handicapping Romo with someone with significant potential, please, raise your hands. Anybody? That's what I thought.

As I was reading that I imagined our GM and his fat son raising their hands. Because they haven't done it yet. They didn't do it with Aikman. They haven't mentioned the thought with Romo.

It's such a no brainer that the guys you rely on for your opinions haven't figured it out yet.
 

JohnsKey19

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Enough of the bargain bin 'gem' quarterbacks. We lucked out with Romo. I don't want to spend time hoping some undrafted gem turns out. Take a risk on a qb.

I agree. The chances we get lucky like that again are slim to none. Romo is an extremely rare case. Maybe Vaughn develops into a solid backup. But when we're ready to draft our future starter, select him early in the draft.
 

Risen Star

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And the defense has been bad in recent years because it was top-heavy with expensive contracts and extensions we should not have made, and because we drafted poorly under many of the Wade years and did not replenish talent. Then injuries took out some of the expensive players, and we were stuck playing street free agents.
There's no doubt we've made a lot of personnel mistakes. But then, nobody is saying the personnel department is infallible, or that it's even particularly competitive. The only reason the pro scouts came into this topic is because I believe you can get some information about what they think about players from their roster moves in-season. That's the only point, and you're overreacting to it.

Meanwhile, 9-4 with the biggest game of the season approaching. Go Cowboys.

The defense sucks because of bad personnel decisions. It's fun to pretend that was all Wade Phillips. It's also asinine and laughable. The same decision makers still reside at Valley Ranch. The same guys that you apparently give complete trust to.
 

Risen Star

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I agree. The chances we get lucky like that again are slim to none. Romo is an extremely rare case. Maybe Vaughn develops into a solid backup. But when we're ready to draft our future starter, select him early in the draft.

Romo was a product of Bill Parcells. We shouldn't expect similar fortune.

We should be ready to draft one right now. I don't think you choose a legit franchise QB at the most opportune time. I think you take one when you can get it.
 

TwoCentPlain

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Brandon Weeden is here now as the backup QB to a guy the team knew was entering the season with serious back issues. He might be the worst QB in the entire league. He's certainly in the running.

To come to the above conclusion either a) you watch very little football or b) you are clueless or c) you are trolling for attention or d) any combination of a,b,and c.
 

Idgit

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Oh trust me. You won't get any argument there.

Thanks for the lesson. So you're saying all teams make mistakes in personnel? Which makes it easier than to say, gasp, the Cowboys (Go Cowboys!) make mistakes in personnel.

So then why did you feel the need to mention the team likes him when you were asked what you think of the player?

Once again you want to attach his roster spot to a tangible reason for hope. The problem here is that any Cowboys fan who pays attention knows that doesn't mean anything. We've cornered the market on carrying bad players on our roster. Stephen McGee was here for years. What did it mean? Nothing. Brandon Weeden is here now as the backup QB to a guy the team knew was entering the season with serious back issues. He might be the worst QB in the entire league. He's certainly in the running.

Why couldn't you just answer the question asked? What YOU think of the player.

I think the reason is you don't think. You simply rubber stamp everything the team does under the guise of fair and balanced.

And try to bump keyboards with someone who does think and has been and will continue to be far more right than you'll ever be. Because you don't think. The only time you'll be an enlightening read is when the Cowboys are back at the top again. Then all your support will be just and correct.

All teams have pro scouting departments. All teams have had good and bad players on the rosters. None of this has anything to do with the question of what do I think of the player.

See, it simply isn't relevant. Hey Risen Star, what do you think of Dustin Vaughn? Well, the team obviously likes him and our pro scouting department has info on him I don't.

That's weak. That's a fan who doesn't think. That's someone who just wants to support everything the team does. It was a worthless response, if I'm being honest.

As I was reading that I imagined our GM and his fat son raising their hands. Because they haven't done it yet. They didn't do it with Aikman. They haven't mentioned the thought with Romo.

It's such a no brainer that the guys you rely on for your opinions haven't figured it out yet.

This was obviously a lot of work, so I feel sort of bad just dismissing it as misguided, but that's about the only thing I can do with it, I'm afraid. If you can't accept the notion that watching how teams manage their rosters in-season tells you something about how they view their personnel, well, ok. I don't know how to make that point any more clearly. It goes for any team in the league, if that helps. If, say, OAK was giving up on players they had previously used or even started to keep a developmental QB on their active roster, well, Go Raiders! I guess. Go all the TEAMS.
 

Idgit

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To come to the above conclusion either a) you watch very little football or b) you are clueless or c) you are trolling for attention or d) any combination of a,b,and c.

Put me down for "C."
 

Idgit

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The defense sucks because of bad personnel decisions. It's fun to pretend that was all Wade Phillips. It's also asinine and laughable...

It's also not what I said:

we drafted poorly under many of the Wade years and did not replenish talent
I wasn't blaming Wade Phillips. I put the blame on the organization for that period. But the way we scout and draft has changed under Garrett, and the roster's improved as a result. Stop grandstanding.
 

kevm3

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If a quality qb falls, you take him. We lucked out on Romo, but enough of these 'hidden gems'. If Vaughn is to be the next QB, then he needs to show up whoever we eventually draft... and let's get someone in here BEFORE Romo retires, so we don't have to wade through a QB wasteland for years.
 

Idgit

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If a quality qb falls, you take him. We lucked out on Romo, but enough of these 'hidden gems'. If Vaughn is to be the next QB, then he needs to show up whoever we eventually draft... and let's get someone in here BEFORE Romo retires, so we don't have to wade through a QB wasteland for years.

Vaughan's not even in the conversation for a starter. He's got to concentrate on becoming a viable option for a backup QB in order to buy the time on an NFL roster to maybe become a starter eventually. Whatever we do, we need more than one option and to not have our eggs in one basket. If we hit on more than one guy, fantastic. We probably won't. And we'll need to go through 4-5 guys before we find a guy we can actually develop or who can actually play.
 

Brooksey

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Vaughan's not even in the conversation for a starter. He's got to concentrate on becoming a viable option for a backup QB in order to buy the time on an NFL roster to maybe become a starter eventually. Whatever we do, we need more than one option and to not have our eggs in one basket. If we hit on more than one guy, fantastic. We probably won't. And we'll need to go through 4-5 guys before we find a guy we can actually develop or who can actually play.

Vaughn is on the roster as a developmental backup QB at this point. I have not seen enough of the guy to make a call, saw a few passes in the preseason.

Tony Romo is tough, his back is going to be fully healed soon. Tony Romo is going to be the starter for at least 4-5 more years. We have time to find his replacement. I'm all for plucking the right guy that falls to us in the draft before that but the best time may just be the year after he leaves and we get a top 5 pick. Look at how many top ten draft picks are failing around the league. Tough position to fill.
 

kevm3

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Vaughan's not even in the conversation for a starter. He's got to concentrate on becoming a viable option for a backup QB in order to buy the time on an NFL roster to maybe become a starter eventually. Whatever we do, we need more than one option and to not have our eggs in one basket. If we hit on more than one guy, fantastic. We probably won't. And we'll need to go through 4-5 guys before we find a guy we can actually develop or who can actually play.

Exactly, best to start searching for our options now instead of waiting until Romo is gone and then we're going to have to suffer through the QB circus. Have a guy behind Romo who is learning and can step in ala Rodgers from Favre.
 

Idgit

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Vaughn is on the roster as a developmental backup QB at this point. I have not seen enough of the guy to make a call, saw a few passes in the preseason.

Tony Romo is tough, his back is going to be fully healed soon. Tony Romo is going to be the starter for at least 4-5 more years. We have time to find his replacement. I'm all for plucking the right guy that falls to us in the draft before that but the best time may just be the year after he leaves and we get a top 5 pick. Look at how many top ten draft picks are failing around the league. Tough position to fill.

It's the worst position to fill, and even when you think you've got it filled, you can get Cutlered or Kaepernick'ed and find yourself having to start over. But, hey, if we're willing to stockpile TEs, we should be willing to stockpile QBs. If we develop one early, we'll have tradable commodities we should take advantage of. If we whiff out while Tony's got tread on the tires, we've got time to still address the position.

But the developmental guys--and we're at a point where we should be carrying them--need to develop. I don't want to spend time on guys like McGee, who didn't look great to start with and then who never got any better with time. A good prospect should be closing the gap on the backup QB quickly his first few years. Otherwise, he's too expensive in terms of taking up valuable snaps to keep around.
 

windward

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I think it's hard to say what we have in Vaughan considering he's raw as it gets. Not unlike Romo his rookie year. But I am keen on seeing what kind of progress he has made next training camp. If a guy falls to us and we like him, it can't hurt to add another developmental prospect.
 

MissouriCowboy

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I'm kinda curious what the Ranch thinks about this guy.. I've heard zero about him since training camp. If a guy like Hundley or Petty is available in the 2nd does Jerry say we're set at QB lets get another TE.. We struck free agent gold with Romo is Vaughn being groomed?

Petty I like a lot. He seems like a gamer and I am down with this,
 

Risen Star

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This was obviously a lot of work, so I feel sort of bad just dismissing it as misguided, but that's about the only thing I can do with it, I'm afraid. If you can't accept the notion that watching how teams manage their rosters in-season tells you something about how they view their personnel, well, ok. I don't know how to make that point any more clearly. It goes for any team in the league, if that helps. If, say, OAK was giving up on players they had previously used or even started to keep a developmental QB on their active roster, well, Go Raiders! I guess. Go all the TEAMS.

No, it doesn't help. Let me state it again. He didn't ask what any team thought. He asked what you thought. And since all teams, especially the Cowboys, make mistakes with roster decisions on a regular basis, what does his roster spot have to do with anything? Maybe it's one of the good decisions. Maybe it's one of the bad ones. The OP knew he was on the roster. He knew the Cowboys must feel he's worthy of it. It's completely irrelevant to the question asked.

You should have done what I did. Admit you don't know. There simply isn't enough data yet.

But I'm capable of talking honestly about these players. I don't hide behind a group of decisions makers that have been proven to be among the worst in the league over the years. I don't give the guys who thought Stephen McGee and Phil Costa and Bill Nagy and David Arkin were NFL players the benefit of the doubt.
 

Risen Star

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It's also not what I said:


I wasn't blaming Wade Phillips. I put the blame on the organization for that period. But the way we scout and draft has changed under Garrett, and the roster's improved as a result. Stop grandstanding.

The 2012 offseason, which would be the Jason Garrett era, was one of the worst in the history of this team. From FA to the draft. But I believe you if you tell me you didn't know that.

Explain to me how the way we scout and draft has changed under Jason Garrett. Maybe we can go over the picks too.

What exactly has changed? Considering the GM and his chief assistant, ya know...the guys who actually run the personnel department, haven't changed.
 

MissouriCowboy

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David Arkin I never understood. Live in town where in played college ball. He was nothing special.
 

Idgit

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No, it doesn't help. Let me state it again. He didn't ask what any team thought. He asked what you thought. And since all teams, especially the Cowboys, make mistakes with roster decisions on a regular basis, what does his roster spot have to do with anything? Maybe it's one of the good decisions. Maybe it's one of the bad ones. The OP knew he was on the roster. He knew the Cowboys must feel he's worthy of it. It's completely irrelevant to the question asked.

You should have done what I did. Admit you don't know. There simply isn't enough data yet.

But I'm capable of talking honestly about these players. I don't hide behind a group of decisions makers that have been proven to be among the worst in the league over the years. I don't give the guys who thought Stephen McGee and Phil Costa and Bill Nagy and David Arkin were NFL players the benefit of the doubt.

You can keep stating it, it doesn't make your opinion any better. You might have been too busy with the attention-seeking grandstanding to notice I'd answered your 'what do you think about the player' question with what little I think about the Vaughan back in post 64, but that doesn't change the fact that I also think it's that it's a good indication that he's showing well in practice because they're keeping a QB3 on the active roster at the expense of players who were getting snaps in base packages on game days. That's 'new' data for us since camp. It's something they've tried not to do in previous seasons, but they're doing it now. You don't think that's new data because, apparently, 'boo, Cowboys.' It really doesn't matter. It's so small a point that it's virtually insignificant. It was a throw-away post on a fairly obscure topic that didn't deserve this level of scrutiny.

As for 2012, other than simply shrugging off your ludicrous 'CBs don't matter' position for what it is, we whiffed on the top two picks because we whiffed on Claiborne. It sucks. It happens. Get over it. We hit on Crawford, even though you like to pretend that we did not. Hanna and Wilber are role players from that class. We added Dunbar, Beasley, and Leary in from college that year, which is part of the same college scouting process. It wasn't the disaster you pretend. It's not a great year, because we doubled down and then missed on the highest profile pick. There's nothing that can be done about it, and it's a fact of life that no team in the NFL hits on all picks, even some of their high profile picks. It doesn't mean that the organization hasn't done a good job recently with the draft or with high picks overall.

I'm not sure how to get you off the idea that I'm saying players are good just because Cowboys pick them. It's irrational, and it would be a silly thing to think. I've never said that. I keep telling you I don't think that. I don't know why you're struggling with it. I've said we haven't often carried three QBs in this regime. We use the roster spot instead to churn whatever position group we need to churn. The last two years, that's been DL. This season, we've cut two DL prospects we were using in rotation to keep from exposing the QB3. Even this late in the season when contending teams often let prospects go to shore up rosters for a playoff run. NFL teams don't do that unless they think the guy can at least develop into a QB2. That tells us what our coaches and scouts think of his development, beyond what we all were able to see in camp. It means nothing to you. Fine. We get it. You say that as if it's supposed to matter to me, but I have a hard time understanding why you'd spend the emotional energy to grandstand about it. I'm just adding it to the very long list of unsubstantiated things you choose to believe for very little reason, and moving on.

For the record, though, I don't think you're particularly brave for taking an anonymous stance on the lowest probability middle-and-low-round draft picks on our roster every season.
 
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