Early Predictions for 2006

[Gamebreaker]

OK, if stats are your thing.

Lemar Marshall had almost twice as many tackles (98-58)

Lemar Marshall had 4 INT, Ware had none.

Lemar Marshall scored a TD, Ware did not.

Ware had more sacks. But I think Ware was sent after the QB 10 times more often than Marshall.

So is Lemar Marshall better in your book?

To be fair, Marshall is expected to have more tackles since he's a MLB and Ware isn't. Regardless, that doesn't account for the other points you made. Good post.

 

[Gamebreaker]

By the way, I'm still waiting on HeavyHitta31 to answer my questions to him. I'll either keep asking him to answer them everytime he avoids them and makes a snide comment about something else in this thread or finally admits he's wrong.

 

[Bizwah]

OK, if stats are your thing.

Lemar Marshall had almost twice as many tackles (98-58)

Lemar Marshall had 4 INT, Ware had none.

Lemar Marshall scored a TD, Ware did not.

Ware had more sacks. But I think Ware was sent after the QB 10 times more often than Marshall.

So is Lemar Marshall better in your book?

No....

Again, tackles are kept by individual teams and aren't official statistics.

Marhsall was sent into coverage about ten times more than Ware.

Ware had more pressures, more FF, more TFL, and more sacks. Not only that, he was double-teamed about half the time.

How often was Marshall double-teamed?

Ask any NFL GM if they'd rather have Marshall or Ware. Tell me how many pick Marshall.

Heck, go ahead and speculate.

If you're honest with yourself, you'd probably realize that practically NONE would choose Marshall.

Again, Ware isn't as good as Washington.

He's better than Marshall......He'd be able to play Marshall's position and play it well. There's no way Marshall could play Ware's position. He'd be engulfed.

 

[Bizwah]

I used nfl.com to compare the tackles of both players, not each teams' website where the numbers would likely be the same or higher. Regardless of this, Washington trounces Ware in nearly every category. Ware only had .5 more sacks than Washington, they had the same amount of forced fumbles, and Washington had 1 INT when Ware had none. The rest of the stats go Washington's way. Futhermore, football is about more than just statistics. The statistics never show how many times a player gets beat in coverage, or missed tackles, or blown assignments. By doing extensive research at websites that keep track of such things, you'll find Marcus Washington doesn't have very high numbers in those three categories.

Reread the post.

I basically said that Washington was better than Ware.

I love Washington as a player and would love to have him.

I never mentioned Chris Clemons, an undrafted project of Gregg Williams who is still coming along. I know Ware is better than Clemons. Unlike some people in this thread, I'm not a homer and I can admit these things. Marshall on the other hand, is another undrafted player who Williams has turned into as solid a MLB as you can get. He's great in coverage, plays the zone well, and he's extremely smart. He's a player, that came in and took over as the mic for this defense when Antonio Pierce left, and was only slightly worse in that aspect that Pierce was. Yes, Marshall is better than Ware, because without Lemar this defense would've did a complete 180 from the 2004 season.

Oh, please......Marshall is not better than Ware. He is not the game-changer Ware is.

Teams have to account for Ware. Teams have to game plan for Ware. Do teams have to game plan around Marshall?

Highly doubtful.

Ware is in a position to create havoc. He did that a lot. Marshall is in a position to pick up the garbage created for him.

To top it off, he was a rookie last year in a defense he'd never played, and in a position he'd never played.

This year, he'll be bigger (reports have him at 265) and be in a position to react instead of think.

 

[Mr. Grundle]

Cowboys draft picks:

Witten
Newman
Williams
Spears
Ware
Ellis
James
Adams
Johnson/Gurode
Jones
Crayton
This years 1st round draft pick

All starters for Dallas who we drafted who will play huge roels in whether or not we win this year. That's 12 of 22 starters, not including McBriar, who have spent their entire careers in Dallas.

What have the Cowboys won since drafting all these players?

I'm still trying to figure out what this argument is. You can lose just as much by building through the draft as opposed to free agency?

 

[Gamebreaker]

No....

Again, tackles are kept by individual teams and aren't official statistics.

Marhsall was sent into coverage about ten times more than Ware.

Ware had more pressures, more FF, more TFL, and more sacks. Not only that, he was double-teamed about half the time.

How often was Marshall double-teamed?

Ask any NFL GM if they'd rather have Marshall or Ware. Tell me how many pick Marshall.

Heck, go ahead and speculate.

If you're honest with yourself, you'd probably realize that practically NONE would choose Marshall.

Again, Ware isn't as good as Washington.

He's better than Marshall......He'd be able to play Marshall's position and play it well. There's no way Marshall could play Ware's position. He'd be engulfed.

For one, we're comparing what both players did in two totally different roles. It's foolish to say Ware could do Marshall's job, because we really have no idea about Ware's football smarts. GW's middle linebacker has to know the playbook like his ABC's and make major adustments on the field. Ware, being a former DE, has never been put in that position and it's foolish to say he could do a great job of it.

I agree that nearly every GM would take Ware over Marshall, but not because of their performances in 2005. They would because Marshall went undrafted, and Ware was highly regarded. They would because Marshall has been in the league for a number of years, and Ware is going into his sophmore season. It's expected that Ware will just improve off his already impressive rookie season. There really isn't any discussion in that regard, yet that doesn't diminsh the wonderful job Marshall did last year.

 

[Mr. Grundle]

Lemar Marshall is rock solid, but I'd take Ware over him in a second.

 

[The30YardSlant]

What have the Cowboys won since drafting all these players?

I'm still trying to figure out what this argument is. You can lose just as much by building through the draft as opposed to free agency?

Look at recent SB winners: Pittsburgh, New England, Tampa Bay. All built title teasm through the draft. Other than SF in 1994, who already had a great team, name one team that has won anything of substance with mostly FA talent?

 

[Gamebreaker]

Oh, please......Marshall is not better than Ware. He is not the game-changer Ware is.

Teams have to account for Ware. Teams have to game plan for Ware. Do teams have to game plan around Marshall?

Highly doubtful.

Ware is in a position to create havoc. He did that a lot. Marshall is in a position to pick up the garbage created for him.

To top it off, he was a rookie last year in a defense he'd never played, and in a position he'd never played.

This year, he'll be bigger (reports have him at 265) and be in a position to react instead of think.

Read my latest post on this, it pretty much addresses everything you've said in this post and the previous one.

 

[Gamebreaker]

Look at recent SB winners: Pittsburgh, New England, Tampa Bay. All built title teasm through the draft. Other than SF in 1994, who already had a great team, name one team that has won anything of substance with mostly FA talent?

I see you still can't answer my questions. :laugh1: Just do us both a favor and admit you were wrong.

 

[The30YardSlant]

I see you still can't answer my questions. :laugh1: Just do us both a favor and admit you were wrong.

Wrong about what, that Danny Boy is back to his old tricks of trying to buy a ring? Nah, the proof is in the NFL record signing bonuses and the complete disregard for the team's cap future.

This is 2000 all over again, except this time, you arent signing Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders, you're signing Antwaan Randle El and Adam Archuleta.

Actually, now that you mention it, your right, there is a difference. In 2000, Snyder brought in actual talent. Nevertheless, the results will be much the same. Have a fun 7-9 year at best.

 

[Bizwah]

For one, we're comparing what both players did in two totally different roles. It's foolish to say Ware could do Marshall's job, because we really have no idea about Ware's football smarts. GW's middle linebacker has to know the playbook like his ABC's and make major adustments on the field. Ware, being a former DE, has never been put in that position and it's foolish to say he do a great job of it.

This is true.

But Ware's football intelligence can't be questioned. Here's a guy that played WR in highschool, moved to DE in college, finally to play OLB in a 3-4 in the NFL.

To say he couldn't pick up a MLB scheme is.....well, I guess you never know.

You were the one comparing the two players. I think it's very homerish to say that Marshall, a complimentary piece, is a better player than Ware, a key piece in Dallas' successful conversion to a 3-4.

I agree that nearly every GM would take Ware over Marshall, but not because of their performances in 2005. They would because Marshall went undrafted, and Ware was highly regarded.

There's a reason why.

Ware is a game-changer, evidenced by the game vs the Panthers. He totally took over the game. All season, he rushed the QB into poor throws, stopped RBs behind the LOS, as well as sacking the QB.

Marshall played well, and made many tackles, but did it behind a DL that made it possible for him to succeed. In other words, he was a lot like the MLBs we had in the past. Dat made tons of tackles, but he was marginally successful in the 3-4 because he was asked to take on OL.

Marshall plays well because he relys on others.

They would because Marshall has been in the league for a number of years, and Ware is going into his sophmore season. It's expected that Ware will just improve of his already impressive rookie season. There really isn't any discussion in that regard, yet that doesn't diminsh the wonderful job Marshall did last year.

No, they would because Ware is more of an IMPACT player with more talent and a higher ceiling. He's a bigger player and a better athlete.

 

[SkinsFan26]

No....

Again, tackles are kept by individual teams and aren't official statistics.

Marhsall was sent into coverage about ten times more than Ware.

Ware had more pressures, more FF, more TFL, and more sacks. Not only that, he was double-teamed about half the time.

How often was Marshall double-teamed?

Ask any NFL GM if they'd rather have Marshall or Ware. Tell me how many pick Marshall.

Heck, go ahead and speculate.

If you're honest with yourself, you'd probably realize that practically NONE would choose Marshall.

Again, Ware isn't as good as Washington.

He's better than Marshall......He'd be able to play Marshall's position and play it well. There's no way Marshall could play Ware's position. He'd be engulfed.

I agree that Ware is a better football player. I was making the point that stats can not be used to determine talent, pretty much ever.

 

[Gamebreaker]

Wrong about what, that Danny Boy is back to his old tricks of trying to buy a ring? Nah, the proof is in the NFL record signing bonuses and the complete disregard for the team's cap future.

This is 2000 all over again, except this time, you arent signing Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders, you're signing Antwaan Randle El and Adam Archuleta.

Actually, now that you mention it, your right, there is a difference. In 2000, Snyder brought in actual talent. Nevertheless, the results will be much the same. Have a fun 7-9 year at best.

No, actually, you still haven't answered my questions. Let me go back and show them to you again.

"Please prove how Carter played better in college than Jason Campbell.

Campbell's career college numbers were 496-779, a 63% completion percentage, for 6,512 yards, 40 touchdowns and 21 interceptions. I guess you'll be finding numbers to beat those, right?"

"What has Dan Snyder done that is any different from any team in the NFL? He's following the rules and signing players to play for his team. If he's trying to "buy" a championship, then so is every team in the league. The core players that drove the team to a playoff run are still there, he's only added players that would take the team even further. How is this buying a championship?"

" please show me how it relates to this off-season. You know, certain things like age, positions targeted, and expected role on the team. Let's not generalize this discussion on aspects completely unrelated to the football field like, salaries."

You've actually answer NONE of these questions, especially that ridiculous assertion about Quincy Carter being a better college quarterback than Jason Campbell. :laugh2:

I've already stated that salaries are completely unrelated to what a player does on a field, you've never seen a signing bonus score a touchdown or make a tackle. So please, beyond harping on irrelevant things like salary, how are the Commanders buying a Superbowl?

 

[5Stars]

Did you even read my post? No, you're just trying to be an ***. Good job, you're a master at your craft.

"Furthermore Ware is coming into year 2 while Washington is coming into year 7."

Did you even read that?

And, I'm the master of craft? Me...the master of craft? :laugh2:


I know who your master is...and he's calling your name to come back home! You need a little more brainwashing....I don't know what his name is, but it's spelled A R T...! Go now, run to him...he knows all things!

But, yeah, thanks for the "master" reference...I am proud of that!

 

[Gamebreaker]

You were the one comparing the two players. I think it's very homerish to say that Marshall, a complimentary piece, is a better player than Ware, a key piece in Dallas' successful conversion to a 3-4.

I was comparing their value for their teams. You know, I never called you a homer. But I can definitely say it is homerish to call a player who runs the whole defense and STILL makes plays as simply a "complimentary piece", simply because he isn't a big name.

There's a reason why.

Ware is a game-changer, evidenced by the game vs the Panthers. He totally took over the game. All season, he rushed the QB into poor throws, stopped RBs behind the LOS, as well as sacking the QB.

Great. He does his job, I never stated otherwise.

Marshall played well, and made many tackles, but did it behind a DL that made it possible for him to succeed. In other words, he was a lot like the MLBs we had in the past. Dat made tons of tackles, but he was marginally successful in the 3-4 because he was asked to take on OL.

Marshall plays well because he relys on others.

This is his role, what else is supposed to do? It seems to me you just prefer Ware's role over Marshall's, and that is why you feel he is a better player. They did their jobs exactly how they were supposed to. I don't think if Ware was thrust into Marshall's role he'd have done half as well. He would've been out of position half of the time, filling the wrong gap on running plays, or outright getting beat in coverage. Yet this is just IMO, because it's very likely Ware will never be asked to play MLB.

 

[Gamebreaker]

"Furthermore Ware is coming into year 2 while Washington is coming into year 7."

Did you even read that?

And, I'm the master of craft? Me...the master of craft? :laugh2:


I know who your master is...and he's calling your name to come back home! You need a little more brainwashing....I don't know what his name is, but it's spelled A R T...! Go now, run to him...he knows all things!

But, yeah, thanks for the "master" reference...I am proud of that!

Wow. You wrote all that without even proving me wrong, yet you've actually convinced yourself you're right. Great job, moron. You really aren't that bright, seriously. Re-read what you quoted and answered to and tell you really feel proud of that.

Just because Ware is in year 2 and Washington is in year 7 doesn't change the FACT that Washington played better last season, and is simply a better player PERIOD. Notice any of your fellow Boyz fans backing you up? No. Wonder why? Because their embarassed you're even in this thread showing how much of a brainless homer you are! :laugh2:

 

[The30YardSlant]

No, actually, you still haven't answered my questions. Let me go back and show them to you again.

"Please prove how Carter played better in college than Jason Campbell.

Campbell's career college numbers were 496-779, a 63% completion percentage, for 6,512 yards, 40 touchdowns and 21 interceptions. I guess you'll be finding numbers to beat those, right?"

"What has Dan Snyder done that is any different from any team in the NFL? He's following the rules and signing players to play for his team. If he's trying to "buy" a championship, then so is every team in the league. The core players that drove the team to a playoff run are still there, he's only added players that would take the team even further. How is this buying a championship?"

" please show me how it relates to this off-season. You know, certain things like age, positions targeted, and expected role on the team. Let's not generalize this discussion on aspects completely unrelated to the football field like, salaries."

You've actually answer NONE of these questions, especially that ridiculous assertion about Quincy Carter being a better college quarterback than Jason Campbell. :laugh2:

I've already stated that salaries are completely unrelated to what a player does on a field, you've never seen a signing bonus score a touchdown or make a tackle. So please, beyond harping on irrelevant things like salary, how are the Commanders buying a Superbowl?

Quincy Carter was a Heisman candidate going into both his junior and senior seasons. No one even gave a Campbell a second thought towards the Heisman. He didnt have a great senior season, but received much more notoriaty in college than Campbell did.

And no one else has signed the number of "high profile" players than Snyder has, nor has anyone overpaid in such grand fashion. Snyder has almost no drafted talent, and in turn is attempting to purchase his way to a SB. Dallas signed TO to help, yes. However, we have draft picks at almost every position on this team. All but one of our great defensive players was drafted by us. FA helps, but champions are not built through FA.

 

[silverbear]

Silverbear, I applaud your attempt to try and dicuss football with these RedStink fans, but, my man...it's an attempt in futility!

If I thought that was the case in this situation, I wouldn't even bother trying... but while there ARE some Skins fans out there who are totally delusional, I've also known a few who are good guys, and capable of making a good argument...

I always enjoy running across that kind... and I think I might have one of them in SkinsHokiesFan (though as a long-time UVa Cavs fan, I have to worry about some who likes the Skins AND VaTech, LOL)...

Anyway, I find myself hoping that his distortion of my arguments wasn't intentional, and that if I point out the disingenuousness of such distortions, he'll recognize that he ought to be more straight up when characterizing my position...

It's ExtremeSkin Syndrome, my friend....!

I honestly don't know what any football fan sees in that board... every time I follow a hyperlink to a thread from over there, I just shake my head in utter awe and amazement at the pure homerism of that joint...

 

[Gamebreaker]

Quincy Carter was a Heisman candidate going into both his junior and senior seasons. No one even gave a Campbell a second thought towards the Heisman. He didnt have a great senior season, but received much more notoriaty in college than Campbell did.

And no one else has signed the number of "high profile" players than Snyder has, nor has anyone overpaid in such grand fashion. Snyder has almost no drafted talent, and in turn is attempting to purchase his way to a SB. Dallas signed TO to help, yes. However, we have draft picks at almost every position on this team. All but one of our great defensive players was drafted by us. FA helps, but champions are not built through FA.

You are like a broken record. You keep repeating the same statements that logically don't hold water in this discussion. For Snyder to just want "high profile" players, why didn't he sign Julian Peterson, or trade for Daunte Culpepper, or hell, sign Terrell Owens. He signed players in needs. That argument has a bigger hole in it than the Titanic.

Furthermore, the players signed in 2000 were all brought in to help the 29th ranked defense, except for George. That defense went from 29th to 5th. The lack of depth on offense due to injuries did that season in. Do your own research and stop repeating manure spewed by fools.

Also, I asked you show Carter's college stats and what do you do? You go on about the Heisman. PROVE HE WAS BETTER, DON'T GIVE THAT SUBJECTIVE BULL****. Show his damn stats. Or explain why everyone and their grandmother thought Carter was drafted WAY too high, and he was still drafted lower than Campbell. Again, you cannot win this argument without providing better stats than Campbell's.

You have yet to prove a damn thing in any of those arguments and it's painfully obvious.