Ebenezer Ekuban will reportedly be the Broncos' starting weak-side end

[ABQCOWBOY]

or that it was a horrible 1st round overall

Problem was that it was only about 15 players strong at the top. That was the other year of the QB.

1 Tim Couch
2 Donavan McNabb
3 Akili Smith
4 Edgerrin James
5 Ricky Williams
6 Torry Holt
7 Champ Bailey
8 David Boston
9 Chris Claiborn
10 Chris McAlister
11 Daunte Culpepper
12 Cade McNown
13 Troy Edwards
14 John Tait
15 Bugger McFarland
16 Jevon Kearse
17 Damion Woody
18 Matt Stinchcomb
19 Luke Petitgout
20 Eb Ekuban

If I look at this draft, I'd say that the first 20 picks were pretty good.

Couch, Smith, Boston, Claiborne and McNown are really the only players that washed out IMO. Ek is not great but he is still productive and he is starting so I would not say he is a wash. Couch, Smith and McNown are wash outs IMO, Boston was actually on his way to be really good until he fell in love with the roids and sized himself out of a job. Claiborne was also pretty good but injuries kinda got the best of him. Ricky Williams couldn't lay off the weed but while he was in the NFL, he was as good as anybody IMO. Good draft 1-20 I thought.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Problem was that it was only about 15 players strong at the top. That was the other year of the QB.

1 Tim Couch
2 Donavan McNabb
3 Akili Smith
4 Edgerrin James
5 Ricky Williams
6 Torry Holt
7 Champ Bailey
8 David Boston
9 Chris Claiborn
10 Chris McAlister
11 Daunte Culpepper
12 Cade McNown
13 Troy Edwards
14 John Tait
15 Bugger McFarland
16 Jevon Kearse
17 Damion Woody
18 Matt Stinchcomb
19 Luke Petitgout
20 Eb Ekuban

If I look at this draft, I'd say that the first 20 picks were pretty good.

Couch, Smith, Boston, Claiborne and McNown are really the only players that washed out IMO. Ek is not great but he is still productive and he is starting so I would not say he is a wash. Couch, Smith and McNown are wash outs IMO, Boston was actually on his way to be really good until he fell in love with the roids and sized himself out of a job. Claiborne was also pretty good but injuries kinda got the best of him. Ricky Williams couldn't lay off the weed but while he was in the NFL, he was as good as anybody IMO. Good draft 1-20 I thought.

meh, basically every other pick in that top 20 was a horrible bust, and Tait and Pettigout are only above-average, and Ricky is out of the league

can't belive Claiborne was the 9th overall pick, that probably explains why he keeps getting jobs, 3 teams in 4 years :laugh1:

 

[AbeBeta]

forgive me, but isn't Ricky Proehl still employed too? he's a solid role player, but nothing more either, no matter how long Ek has managed to stay employed, 1st round picks aren't supposed to be role players who's ceiling is 8 sacks

If you look at all the first round guys drafted in the past 10 years at DE that would be a pretty good performance - here's a sample from 96 and 97 - I think one thing you'll see is that most guys, except for the very high picks, are pretty similar to Ekuban. Of these 11 guys there are 3 that Ek is clearly better than, 3 that are clearly better than him, and 6 who are very similar. You draft a DE mid-first and you usually see Ekuban type numbers.

Obviously, you want more out of a first round pick. But statistically Ek is the kind of guy you usually get

Year Round Pick

1996
1 3 Simeon Rice Cardinals Illinois - Awesome, 199 sacks
1 5 Cedric Jones Giants Oklahoma - 15 career sacks - out of the league after 5 years
1 12 Regan Upshaw Buccaneers California - 10 years, 34.5 career sacks. Fewer career tackles than Ek has now.
1 16 Duane Clemons Vikings California -- 11 years in the league, 49.5 sacks. Pretty similar to Ekuban. Once punched Flozell in the goodies.

1997
1 4 Peter Boulware Ravens Florida State - OLB really, 70 career tackles. A very solid player
1 14 Reinard Wilson Bengals Florida State - 24 career sacks (4 a year!). Hasn't played since 2002.
1 17 Kenard Lang Commanders -- 10 years, 44 sacks. A decent player
1 18 Kenny Holmes Oilers Miami (FL) - 8 years, 38.5 sacks. Last played in 2003
1 21 Renaldo Wynn Jaguars Notre Dame - 10 years, 21.5 sacks.
1 25 Jon Harris Eagles Virginia - 2 years, 2 sacks. SUCKED.
1 28 Trevor Pryce Broncos Clemson - 10 years 64 sacks. Had a very solid run for about 6 years.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Obviously, you want more out of a first round pick. But statistically Ek is the kind of guy you usually get

very true, but I don't use that as an excuse to justify the pick selection, not saying you are, since I see your reasoning, ya know, just in case Ek decided to do some research on the subject LOL

Year Round Pick

1996
1 3 Simeon Rice Cardinals Illinois - Awesome, 199 sacks
1 5 Cedric Jones Giants Oklahoma - 15 career sacks - out of the league after 5 years
1 12 Regan Upshaw Buccaneers California - 10 years, 34.5 career sacks. Fewer career tackles than Ek has now.
1 16 Duane Clemons Vikings California -- 11 years in the league, 49.5 sacks. Pretty similar to Ekuban. Once punched Flozell in the goodies.

1997
1 4 Peter Boulware Ravens Florida State - OLB really, 70 career tackles. A very solid player
1 14 Reinard Wilson Bengals Florida State - 24 career sacks (4 a year!). Hasn't played since 2002.
1 17 Kenard Lang Commanders -- 10 years, 44 sacks. A decent player
1 18 Kenny Holmes Oilers Miami (FL) - 8 years, 38.5 sacks. Last played in 2003
1 21 Renaldo Wynn Jaguars Notre Dame - 10 years, 21.5 sacks.
1 25 Jon Harris Eagles Virginia - 2 years, 2 sacks. SUCKED.
1 28 Trevor Pryce Broncos Clemson - 10 years 64 sacks. Had a very solid run for about 6 years.

good stuff, and isn't it little wonder why teams are starting to favor the 3-4 now?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

meh, basically every other pick in that top 20 was a horrible bust, and Tait and Pettigout are only above-average, and Ricky is out of the league

can't belive Claiborne was the 9th overall pick, that probably explains why he keeps getting jobs, 3 teams in 4 years :laugh1:

John Tait is pretty good. I would agree with you on Pettigout but he's still got his best year in front of him IMO. He's been the starting Tackle for NY since 2000. That aint bad. Troy Edwards I might agree with you on. His best season was his rookie year with 61 catches but we will see about him. He's on a very dee roster for WRs. In fact, this is a guy I might be interested in trying to aquire. Jacksonville has way too many WRs and he has experience. Stinchcomb, I'd probably have to agree with you on. He had a decent year two years ago but last year, he was injured and prior to that, he was just OK. Not anything to write home about. Still, what's that 6? 6 out of 20 is not all that bad IMO.

 

[AbeBeta]

very true, but I don't use that as an excuse to justify the pick selection, not saying you are, since I see your reasoning, ya know, just in case Ek decided to do some research on the subject LOL

Oh I think it was a crap pick. But I think that because we actually traded up to get him.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Oh I think it was a crap pick. But I think that because we actually traded up to get him.

I agree with that. Wanted Kearse real bad that year. Never had a chance. Liked Kearney a lot better. Oh well.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Troy Edwards I might agree with you on. His best season was his rookie year with 61 catches but we will see about him. He's on a very dee roster for WRs. In fact, this is a guy I might be interested in trying to aquire. Jacksonville has way too many WRs and he has experience.

I think this is as good as Troy is gonna get

Stinchcomb, I'd probably have to agree with you on. He had a decent year two years ago but last year, he was injured and prior to that, he was just OK. Not anything to write home about. Still, what's that 6? 6 out of 20 is not all that bad IMO.

isn't Stinchcomb going to be a backup on the Raiders? it's not bad, but you have to agree, that has turned out to be a pretty underwhelming draft class, but if you count the stars who came out, it makes it look better, only marginally though IMO

 

[TheHustler]

It seems like the people who judge whether his play is acceptable or not think he's doing well enough. He is still employed. Period.

If his production was unacceptable then he wouldn't have a job now would he?

And still making way more than most people here (me included).

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Oh I think it was a crap pick. But I think that because we actually traded up to get him.

it's crap either way you look at it lol

 

[burmafrd]

From 15-32, Ellis is about the MINIMUM you should get for a first rd pick. Ek has never been that good.

 

[AbeBeta]

From 15-32, Ellis is about the MINIMUM you should get for a first rd pick. Ek has never been that good.

If you look at the data I posted you'd see that an Ellis type of performance would be outstanding for that level of pick

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think this is as good as Troy is gonna get



isn't Stinchcomb going to be a backup on the Raiders? it's not bad, but you have to agree, that has turned out to be a pretty underwhelming draft class, but if you count the stars who came out, it makes it look better, only marginally though IMO

No, I think your thinking about John Stinchcomb. Either way, Matt was not great so I'd probably consider him a bust.

As far as the draft class over all, as I said, 1-20 is pretty good IMO. 21-to 31 is not great at all. In fact, if you look at that draft top to bottom, I think it's really pretty poor. Doesn't get a great deal better in the later rounds IMO.

As for Edwards, he's an interesting player to me. He really started out well in Pittsburg but spent two years hurt there after and really, had little desire to play with Slash IMO. Went to the Rams, who were pretty deep at WR, for a year and then moved on to the Jags. He didn't start for the Jags but they too were set at WR. He was pretty much the third WR but he did catch 35 his first year and 50 his second year there. He signed with Detroit last year and that was a train reck. Never saw the field. This is a guy who I believe has some skills and is experienced. Charles and I were talking earlier about Henry and I am not for signing Henry. However, Edwards is exactly the kind of WR that I would be interested in trying to bring in to help our WR corps. To me, this guy has been caught up more in circumstances then anything. He might be a guy who if given a chance could come through for you. If nothing else, probably a good 3rd/4th WR and nice depth.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

If nothing else, probably a good 3rd/4th WR and nice depth.

I agree, he'd make for good depth, but he's one of those players I'd approach w/ guarded optimism, very guarded

 

[burmafrd]

First rd picks should always be starters that are at the least very good and SHOULD be near All Pro. Ellis does not quite reach the later, but Ek has never even been close to the former. And just because a lot of first rd picks SUCK does not matter - its what you SHOULD GET WITH A FIRST RD PICK.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

First rd picks should always be starters that are at the least very good and SHOULD be near All Pro. Ellis does not quite reach the later, but Ek has never even been close to the former. And just because a lot of first rd picks SUCK does not matter - its what you SHOULD GET WITH A FIRST RD PICK.

In theory, this is great. The reality is that the numbers don't even come close to your expectations.

The difference between what is and what should be I suppose.

 

[burmafrd]

BP has never busted on a first rd pick. Wonder how many others can say the same?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

BP has never busted on a first rd pick. Wonder how many others can say the same?

Joe Gibbs certainly can't

Desmond HOward #1 overall
Anthony Becht is real close though

 

[AbeBeta]

First rd picks should always be starters that are at the least very good and SHOULD be near All Pro. Ellis does not quite reach the later, but Ek has never even been close to the former. And just because a lot of first rd picks SUCK does not matter - its what you SHOULD GET WITH A FIRST RD PICK.

you can say that all you want.

but over here in reality land, it doesn't happen that way

 

[big dog cowboy]

meh, basically every other pick in that top 20 was a horrible bust, and Tait and Pettigout are only above-average, and Ricky is out of the league

Tait is the anchor of the KC line. Without him they are just an above average line. With him, LJ goes nuts.