Ebenezer Ekuban will reportedly be the Broncos' starting weak-side end

[AbeBeta]

Just because so many teams screw up on their first rd picks does not justify considering Ekubust a reasonable producer for a first rd pick. A first rd pick should be a contender for Pro Bowl status. Ekubust has never been close.

Again, the average mid to late round DE is not that. If you look at DEs from 96 to 04 taken from the 11th pick on, only Trevor Pryce, Patrick Kerney, Shaun Ellis, Dwight Freeney approach probowl status. 25 DEs were taken with those picks in that time span.

That's 16% who reach that criteria. Hardly "should be" numbers.

 

[burmafrd]

AS I have pointed out, just because so many mistakes are made in the first rd does not justify Ekubust- who was also a first rd mistake. One mistake does not jusitify others; just as many mistakes do not justify one.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

AS I have pointed out, just because so many mistakes are made in the first rd does not justify Ekubust- who was also a first rd mistake. One mistake does not jusitify others; just as many mistakes do not justify one.

In the end, there is reality and there is expectation. The two clearly do not meet for you on this issue.

 

[burmafrd]

You should ALWAYS expect a FIRST RD pick to be a top starter- and never accept anything less.

 

[AbeBeta]

AS I have pointed out, just because so many mistakes are made in the first rd does not justify Ekubust- who was also a first rd mistake. One mistake does not jusitify others; just as many mistakes do not justify one.

If 85% of the guys don't approach pro-bowl status that clearly is not a "mistake" - every fan wants their picks to be pro-bowlers -- but the reality is that most players picked mid to late first at DE are never going to become that. Period.

You are going to need to adjust your expectations to reality.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You should ALWAYS expect a FIRST RD pick to be a top starter- and never accept anything less.

In your opinion.

We clearly do not take this approach with our QB. In fact, there are several positions we do not evaluate in this way. Ellis is just another example of this. It is not always the way things are viewed. That is the reality IMO.

 

[burmafrd]

I really cannot understand why this is so hard to grasp: A FIRST RD PICK SHOULD BE A TOP PLAYER- NOT AVERAGE. If he is not a top player then he is a bust. SIMPLE AS THAT. Then you draft another the next year. Untill you get it RIGHT.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I really cannot understand why this is so hard to grasp: A FIRST RD PICK SHOULD BE A TOP PLAYER- NOT AVERAGE. If he is not a top player then he is a bust. SIMPLE AS THAT. Then you draft another the next year. Untill you get it RIGHT.

Yes, your right. We should spend every 1st round pick on DE until we get it right.

This is silly. Not every 1st round pick is going to be All Pro Calibur. Some are just going to be solid, some will wash out. It has been stated that in a perfect world, all our 1st would be All Pro's. We do not live in that world and some would rather view this from a realistic stand point as opposed to the alternative. You find this perplexing. We fell the same way. It is a difference in how this is viewed. Simple as that.

 

[AbeBeta]

I really cannot understand why this is so hard to grasp: A FIRST RD PICK SHOULD BE A TOP PLAYER- NOT AVERAGE. If he is not a top player then he is a bust. SIMPLE AS THAT. Then you draft another the next year. Untill you get it RIGHT.

So I guess our roles are defined.

I present actual DATA and ANALYSIS.

You act the part of the drunk idiot at a sports bar.

 

[burmafrd]

Anyone who accepts Ekubust as anything less then a bust is a drunken idiot.
Just because a lot of first rds are busts means NOTHING. Never accept anything less. If you do, then you are accepting mediocrity and losing.
I feel sorry for those that are willing to settle for that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Anyone who accepts Ekubust as anything less then a bust is a drunken idiot.
Just because a lot of first rds are busts means NOTHING. Never accept anything less. If you do, then you are accepting mediocrity and losing.
I feel sorry for those that are willing to settle for that.

We understand. Thank you.

 

[AbeBeta]

Anyone who accepts Ekubust as anything less then a bust is a drunken idiot.
Just because a lot of first rds are busts means NOTHING. Never accept anything less. If you do, then you are accepting mediocrity and losing.
I feel sorry for those that are willing to settle for that.

You are confusing accepting "mediocrity" with understanding realistic outcomes.

When Jerry drafted Ellis he said something to the effect that if you wanted a great DE, historically you need to draft him top 10 as guys taken after that rarely become superstars.

Even Jerry gets it.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

How do you think Ekuban would have done as a pass rushing stand up DE/LB Parcells mentioned he had thought about using him as such.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

How do you think Ekuban would have done as a pass rushing stand up DE/LB Parcells mentioned he had thought about using him as such.

I think that if he had been used in this way initially, he might have been pretty good. When Ellis came out, he had good mobility. I think it could have been interesting to use him in a zone blitzing type scheme. Unfortunatly, I think those days have gone by. Time will tell.

 

[joseephuss]

Ekuban is clearly a bust. That doesn't mean he isn't servicable. He just did not meet expectations. Not just fan expectations, but the orginization's expectations. They wanted and needed a pass rusher from the weak side. Ekuban did not give that to them. It was too bad. Even with that, I still liked him on the team because he did play suprisingly well against the run. I was all for replacing him with someone proven, but Dallas did not do that. Instead they found someone worse in Wiley and his backups Coleman and Ogbogu. Sometimes you will take servicable over trash like that. Of course I was pulling for Dallas to bring in Bertand Berry that off season. Barring that, they needed servicable and got nothing.

 

[AbeBeta]

Ekuban is clearly a bust. That doesn't mean he isn't servicable. He just did not meet expectations. Not just fan expectations, but the orginization's expectations. They wanted and needed a pass rusher from the weak side. Ekuban did not give that to them.

If you read the analyses I provided it would be clear that if you are looking for a DE who can get to the QB then mid to late first just isn't the place to get him. That simply is not a reasonable expectation. You want a pass rusher? Get yourself a top 5 pick then. Otherwise the chances are very low.

 

[joseephuss]

If you read the analyses I provided it would be clear that if you are looking for a DE who can get to the QB then mid to late first just isn't the place to get him. That simply is not a reasonable expectation. You want a pass rusher? Get yourself a top 5 pick then. Otherwise the chances are very low.

That was a good analysis. I understand that the chances are low, but that doesn't change what Dallas was looking for at the time. They looked for a dominant pass rusher and didn't get one in the latter portion of the 1st round. The year before, they looked for a dominant pass rusher in the top 10 with Ellis and also didn't get one. The chances are low no matter what.

Neither fit the bill of dominant pass rusher. That equals bust for both players, but after a while you have to change or lower your expectations of those players. Ellis is a very good player and can help a defense. Ekuban can also help a defense, just not to the level of Ellis. There is nothing wrong with either player in that respect. Any team could use those types of players, but they also need players that meet the higher end expectations as well.

 

[Big Country]

couldn't sack a lunch!!

 

[AbeBeta]

That was a good analysis. I understand that the chances are low, but that doesn't change what Dallas was looking for at the time. They looked for a dominant pass rusher and didn't get one in the latter portion of the 1st round.

If they wanted a dominant pass rusher then why did they move him to the strong side in his 2nd year? Seems like if you want to develop a guy you wouldn't move him out of position.

 

[joseephuss]

If they wanted a dominant pass rusher then why did they move him to the strong side in his 2nd year? Seems like if you want to develop a guy you wouldn't move him out of position.

They were trying to develop two young guys in Ek and Ellis. I understand that he is not a complete bust who couldn't stick in the league because of being able to do nothing. Like I said, the guy is servicable. It is also pretty clear what Dallas was trying to accomplish something with him as a pass rusher and it just didn't work out. Happens all the time. I wouldn't be suprised if it happend with Ware. The odds are better for someone become a so called "bust" than they are for becoming a perinneal pro-bowler.