Ebenezer Ekuban will reportedly be the Broncos' starting weak-side end

[big dog cowboy]

you can say that all you want.

but over here in reality land, it doesn't happen that way

Hence the use of the word 'should' in that last sentence.

 

[DefendeR]

he's a solid DE. few guys stay in this league for 7 years. He's done it. I wanted Kerney.

but if you look historically, Ek has done ok for a mid to late first round pick

Wasn't Kerney drafted in 2000?
Ekubust was our pick in '99.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Wasn't Kerney drafted in 2000?
Ekubust was our pick in '99.

No, Pat Kearney was taken 30th overall by the Falcons in 99.

 

[AbeBeta]

Wasn't Kerney drafted in 2000?
Ekubust was our pick in '99.

solid research there kid

 

[Reality]

Ebenezer Ekuban will reportedly be the Broncos' starting weak-side end

Are you sure it didn't say he was a "weak starting end" ??


-Reality

 

[AbeBeta]

Hence the use of the word 'should' in that last sentence.

So you expect every pick to be above average in production for that position?

I don't think you understand what average means. If you are picking a DE in the mid to late first, he should perform at the average for DEs picked there. And Ekuban is doing exactly that.

You are confusing what a reasonable level of production for a player taken at a certain spot is with what you want it to be.

 

[AtlCB]

I would take six sacks opposite Ware this season.

Ekubust would get mauled as a 3-4 DE. You could start Ellis there and get more sacks and better production against the run. Canty would also be play much better than Ekubust. I honestly doubt that Ekubust could make the Cowboys roster this year.

 

[AtlCB]

So you expect every pick to be above average in production for that position?

I don't think you understand what average means. If you are picking a DE in the mid to late first, he should perform at the average for DEs picked there. And Ekuban is doing exactly that.

You are confusing what a reasonable level of production for a player taken at a certain spot is with what you want it to be.

Is this a joke. I would expect a DE picked in the first round to be better than a marginal starter. I would also expect this player to average more than 3.5 sacks per year.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Ekubust would get mauled as a 3-4 DE. You could start Ellis there and get more sacks and better production against the run. Canty would also be play much better than Ekubust. I honestly doubt that Ekubust could make the Cowboys roster this year.

Auhhhhh, OK. What does this have to do with my original statement? I never said I wanted Ekuban in Dallas playing a 34. I said I would take 6 sacks opposite Ware this year, which would be an OLB position, BTW.

 

[AtlCB]

Auhhhhh, OK. What does this have to do with my original statement? I never said I wanted Ekuban in Dallas playing a 34. I said I would take 6 sacks opposite Ware this year, which would be an OLB position, BTW.

The sacks may not necessarily come from the OLB. Ellis produced eight sacks last season from the strong side - mostly in the nickle defense.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The sacks may not necessarily come from the OLB. Ellis produced eight sacks last season from the strong side - mostly in the nickle defense.

OK, still a relivant question. What does Ekuban have to do with my original statement?

As for nickle, I don't really consider a pass rush specialist a player who is opposite Ware. To me, that would be somebody who is on the field on a regular basis. I agree it could be an end but probably the other OLB. However, I do see what your trying to say. I just don't see it that way.

 

[AtlCB]

OK, still a relivant question. What does Ekuban have to do with my original statement?

As for nickle, I don't really consider a pass rush specialist a player who is opposite Ware. To me, that would be somebody who is on the field on a regular basis. I agree it could be an end but probably the other OLB. However, I do see what your trying to say. I just don't see it that way.

The entire thread is about Ekubust. The post that originally responded to was about Ekubust.

 

[AtlCB]

Are you sure it didn't say he was a "weak starting end" ??


-Reality

 

[AbeBeta]

Is this a joke. I would expect a DE picked in the first round to be better than a marginal starter. I would also expect this player to average more than 3.5 sacks per year.

No, you can look at the averages for these players. You just don't get that out of DEs picked mid to late first on average.

So you can expect what you want but your expectation isn't consistent with the data.

 

[AbeBeta]

The entire thread is about Ekubust. The post that originally responded to was about Ekubust.

Again, a guy who performs as well as the average DE taken mid to late first is hardly a bust.

Jon Harris was a bust.
Jamal Reynolds was a bust.

Ekuban is an average DE who is performing very much like most of the DEs taken where he was.

 

[AtlCB]

No, you can look at the averages for these players. You just don't get that out of DEs picked mid to late first on average.

So you can expect what you want but your expectation isn't consistent with the data.

Are you saying that the average career sacks for a first round DE is 3.5 per year? Do you have any numbers to back that up?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The entire thread is about Ekubust. The post that originally responded to was about Ekubust.

OK. For the record, I don't know how we got to Ekuban playing for us in a 34 but it seems pretty well decided that I never said this, nor did I ever intend it to be discussed. Ek is a 43 DE, as is Ellis. Neither would be a perfect fit for our 34 IMO.

Ek is what he is. Personally, I think Ek will have a decent season if he can stay healthy. I would never say that Ekuban is a top 10 DE in our league but I was not for cutting him loose when we did. I understand why we did it. If we were going to a 34 all along, it made sense to do so. Having said that, I felt as if he could develop. Water under the bridge at this point.

 

[burmafrd]

Just because so many teams screw up on their first rd picks does not justify considering Ekubust a reasonable producer for a first rd pick. A first rd pick should be a contender for Pro Bowl status. Ekubust has never been close.

 

[AbeBeta]

Are you saying that the average career sacks for a first round DE is 3.5 per year? Do you have any numbers to back that up?

I posted some #s earlier in the thread. They showed that of the 12 guys I looked at (1st rounders in 97 and 98), only 3 were better than Ek -- two of them were top 5 picks (Rice and Boulware). Ek was statistically very similar to 6 of them and he was clearly better than 3. Compared to that group he is very much in the middle of the pack.

Sacks aren't the only measure. Ekuban is a very solid run defender. Also, how long you can stay in the league is huge.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Just because so many teams screw up on their first rd picks does not justify considering Ekubust a reasonable producer for a first rd pick. A first rd pick should be a contender for Pro Bowl status. Ekubust has never been close.

Here is a list of DEs who have been taken at or around 20 and lower over the past 10 years.

2006

20 Tamba Hali
32 Methias Kiwanuka

2005

18 Erasmus James
20 Marcus Spears

2004

18 Will Smith
20 Kenechi Udeze
27 Jason Babin

2003

18 Calvin Pace
32 Tyler Brayton

2002

22 Bryan Thomas
25 Charles Grant

2001

29 Ryan Pickett

2000

26 Eric Flowers

1999

20 Ebenezer Ekuban
22 Lamar King
29 Demitrus Underwood
30 Pat Kearney

1998

None

1997

18 Kenny Holmes
21 Renaldo Wynn
25 Jon Harris
28 Trevor Price

1996

None.

How many of these guys have proven to be Pro Bowl type players? Probably too early for an evaluation on the most recent guys but still, the results say that most are not going to be that kind of player.