Ellis Cap question - Adam

Doomsday101

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jksmith269 said:
and your sure of this how? Do you work in the front office? Why isn't it possible for us to trade him? I remember Two players having problems with Bill since he's been here and he's still here and they are gone.

Larry Allen was ran out of town by the crowd in here because of a dispute with Parcells now Allen enters camp in the best shape he has been in for a while and his problem with Parcells seems to be a non-issue. Dallas has more reasons to keep Ellis than to trade him and unless things are really that bad I seriously doubt that Ellis is going any where’s
 

jksmith269

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First off I NEVER ONCE said I wanted Ellis traded. David said it wasn't going to happen I said it was possible that he was traded. I can't stand it when people don't have an open mind on these things. Why can't it happen? Ellis doesn't really fit the 34 which I know we won't be playing 100% of the time just most of the time, but if you can get a decent pick or player for him why not. Teams like the Pats who keep winning have no problem moving players for the betterment of the team. Where as we don't want any player we draft or aquire who has actually amounted to anything to ever leave. Well if we want to win we the fans as well as the team need to get over this attitude.
 

dbair1967

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jksmith269 said:
First off I NEVER ONCE said I wanted Ellis traded. David said it wasn't going to happen I said it was possible that he was traded. I can't stand it when people don't have an open mind on these things. Why can't it happen? Ellis doesn't really fit the 34 which I know we won't be playing 100% of the time just most of the time, but if you can get a decent pick or player for him why not. Teams like the Pats who keep winning have no problem moving players for the betterment of the team. Where as we don't want any player we draft or aquire who has actually amounted to anything to ever leave. Well if we want to win we the fans as well as the team need to get over this attitude.

team like the Pats also have success on defense because they can move back and forth between fronts and schemes and have players that can function in both...you complain about people not keeping an open mind, then say Ellis doesnt fit the 3-4...how do you know until they actually get on the field and do it? dont you need to practice what you preach?

I'd also ask you to name some "good" or "quality" players the Pats got rid of "for the betterment of the team"....dont tell me Ty Law or Lawyer Milloy either, because those guys were released only because of cap implications...I cant recall any good players in their prime that the Pats got rid of "for the betterment of the team"...you dont get better by letting good players go...

David
 

Doomsday101

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jksmith269 said:
First off I NEVER ONCE said I wanted Ellis traded. David said it wasn't going to happen I said it was possible that he was traded. I can't stand it when people don't have an open mind on these things. Why can't it happen? Ellis doesn't really fit the 34 which I know we won't be playing 100% of the time just most of the time, but if you can get a decent pick or player for him why not. Teams like the Pats who keep winning have no problem moving players for the betterment of the team. Where as we don't want any player we draft or aquire who has actually amounted to anything to ever leave. Well if we want to win we the fans as well as the team need to get over this attitude.

If Dallas is interested in trading Ellis or any player they will but I do not think Dallas has any intent on trading him. I also know fans that jump on these stories and go overboard with it just as they did with Larry Allen. We are still only getting 3rd and 4th hand news on this incident but like everything it gets blown out of proportion
 

ravidubey

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We NEED Ellis this year. Besides being the only proven DE on the roster, he is our best option when we play 4-3 which will be at least 1/3 if not 1/2 the time.
 

bighorn

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I would also keep ellis this year just in case none of the rookies can't play. if the rookies can't play, then the 3-4 will bomb, forcing the cowboys to adjust defensive schemes. When the Ware, Spears, and Canty demostrate they can play in this league, then we can throw ellis out there as trade bait.
 

Nors

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You don't need to pay a $3M cap number in Ellis at 3-4 DE

SIMPLE MATH
 

Alexander

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Doomsday101 said:
Larry Allen was ran out of town by the crowd in here because of a dispute with Parcells now Allen enters camp in the best shape he has been in for a while and his problem with Parcells seems to be a non-issue. Dallas has more reasons to keep Ellis than to trade him and unless things are really that bad I seriously doubt that Ellis is going any where’s

If Ellis does what Larry Allen did which is get it all out, then get to work, he wont be going anywhere.

If he continues to whine and becomes a disruption in any way, I don't see us keeping him.
 

Alexander

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Doomsday101 said:
I also know fans that jump on these stories and go overboard with it just as they did with Larry Allen. We are still only getting 3rd and 4th hand news on this incident but like everything it gets blown out of proportion

But the fact is we did talk to Detroit about trading Allen, but we did not get a deal that we could agree to. I would not totally dismiss any trade possibility as total hogwash.
 

Doomsday101

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Alexander said:
But the fact is we did talk to Detroit about trading Allen, but we did not get a deal that we could agree to. I would not totally dismiss any trade possibility as total hogwash.

I don't dismiss any trade with any player, heck Walker trade should be proved that any player can be traded at anytime if the price is right. Only difference is I'm not going ape **** over a report that we really do not know exactly what took place and then want to ship off a player based on 3rd and 4th hand accounts. When Parcells comes out and starts talking about moving Ellis out of hear then I'll believe until then this is just more non-sense from a very board fan base that I have grown accustom of many that go over board with every little crumb they read in the paper.
 

Alexander

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Doomsday101 said:
I don't dismiss any trade with any player, heck Walker trade should be proved that any player can be traded at anytime if the price is right. Only difference is I'm not going ape **** over a report that we really do not know exactly what took place and then want to ship off a player based on 3rd and 4th hand accounts. When Parcells comes out and starts talking about moving Ellis out of hear then I'll believe until then this is just more non-sense from a very board fan base that I have grown accustom of many that go over board with every little crumb they read in the paper.

There was not much more situational evidence here than there was in the case of Ross (literally zero information, save the idea that he was shipped out because he refused to go see sick children and fumbled on Thanksgiving), or Hutchinson (demanded his role, same type of details).

Hunter made statements to the press. Bryant threw his jersey. And there was also another conflict in Parcells' office the week before the trade was announced, where Bryant wanted to know how he fit in the team's future plans.

There has been enough preliminary evidence to think that there is something going on. We had statements to the press two months ago. We had a heated meeting two months ago. We now have Ellis saying, two months later, that he sees his time as short in Dallas.

Are some people over-reacting? Yes. On both sides.

You have some wanting to cut Ellis now for being a malcontent. Some others want Parcells gone because they think he has gone senile.

As always the truth is somewhere in between, but there is fire with this smoke, I am pretty certain of it.
 

Nors

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Yes - there is heated issues on the Ellis front.

He may stay and accept his role - or he may be traded. You don't pay backup DE's in a 3-4 $3M cap.

Ellis is just trying to force the trade with his behaviour.
 

Doomsday101

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Alexander said:
There was not much more situational evidence here than there was in the case of Ross (literally zero information, save the idea that he was shipped out because he refused to go see sick children and fumbled on Thanksgiving), or Hutchinson (demanded his role, same type of details).

Hunter made statements to the press. Bryant threw his jersey. And there was also another conflict in Parcells' office the week before the trade was announced, where Bryant wanted to know how he fit in the team's future plans.

There has been enough preliminary evidence to think that there is something going on. We had statements to the press two months ago. We had a heated meeting two months ago. We now have Ellis saying, two months later, that he sees his time as short in Dallas.

Are some people over-reacting? Yes. On both sides.

You have some wanting to cut Ellis now for being a malcontent. Some others want Parcells gone because they think he has gone senile.

As always the truth is somewhere in between, but there is fire with this smoke, I am pretty certain of it.

Parcells does not always treat each situation the same either. I would not doubt that Parcells and Ellis got into a heated discussion, so what it happens in the NFL believe it or not, hell it happens on lower level in football. I think if Ellis were to become a distraction or starts the pouting routine then he very well could be gone but right now the only person making these comments are basing it on a report that took place over 2 months ago yet Ellis is still here
 

LaTunaNostra

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dbair1967 said:
I'd also ask you to name some "good" or "quality" players the Pats got rid of "for the betterment of the team"....dont tell me Ty Law or Lawyer Milloy either, because those guys were released only because of cap implications...I cant recall any good players in their prime that the Pats got rid of "for the betterment of the team"...you dont get better by letting good players go...

David

Geez, David, the prime example is on this very team.

When Mumbles took over he inherited a team that Nice Guy Pete Carroll had allowed to decline physically and morally to a ludicrous degree. The joke in these parts was the notorious hang out frequented by so many players, the Foxy Lady strip club in Providence, was the real practice field for the Patriots.

It wasn't JUST Terry that got made an example of altho he remains the most notable because the most talented. Mumbles proved he would give no leeway to his own, when he immediately cut J'Juan Cherry, a guy he had high hopes for and drafted with a 4th round pick, the morning after he got in a minor tussle at a Boston nightclub.

Belichick did in NE exactly what Bill did here..................make it clear there would be no nonsense off the field. Cherry was Mumbles's Keith Davis, only he wouldn't be coming back. There is another Cherry in the fold, J'jerod or something, but it ain't the partier.

A lot of good players were cleared out for not "fitting", or ostensibly for cap issues (keeping in mind the Pats have kept the payroll down and have not had to force all the restructures that they did on players..the way they present it is if you want to be a Pat, you play for less than market value..some like Bruschi and Brown cave, or don't seek max pay like Brady, but some like Milloy and Law don't go for it.)

But the 'betterment of the team" mantra has been consistent..and that "betterment" equation includes cap issues, off the field issues, and simply not being versatile or adaptable enough.
 

Kilyin

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What defensive formation did NE primarily use against the Iggles in the Superbowl? I think it was the 4-3! Ellis isn't going anywhere, bank on it.
 

Doomsday101

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Kilyin said:
What defensive formation did NE primarily use against the Iggles in the Superbowl? I think it was the 4-3! Ellis isn't going anywhere, bank on it.

You got it! Was reading an artical the other day in which they talked of NE using the 4-3 for the most part aginst the ealges in the SB. Which got me to pull out the tape of the SB and the writer of the artical was correct
 

Alexander

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Doomsday101 said:
Parcells does not always treat each situation the same either. I would not doubt that Parcells and Ellis got into a heated discussion, so what it happens in the NFL believe it or not, hell it happens on lower level in football. I think if Ellis were to become a distraction or starts the pouting routine then he very well could be gone but right now the only person making these comments are basing it on a report that took place over 2 months ago yet Ellis is still here

On the other hand, Antonio Bryant lasted two months after his blow up too.
 

LaTunaNostra

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Alexander said:
Are some people over-reacting? Yes. On both sides.

I don't see that at all, Alexander.

All I see is calm, reflective analysis concluding that Bill Parcells is a universally over-rated meglomanical dictator with so many control freak issues he can't even entertain the thought of a veteran player inquiring about his role without resorting to a profanity laced diatribe.

Trying to mask his own failures as a coach (and who knows...perhaps inadequacies as the lover of woman half his age), his basic insecurity won't allow for any challenges to his tyrannical concept of authority. His lifelong ego-centered perspective has convinced him that he has the right, and even the duty, to shout down any semblance of dissent. His sense of entitlement is based on his continual grandious delusions that he is the only head coach in NFL history to have turned around not one, but THREE abysmally performing franchises, and he has the unmitigated gall (or deep seated psychosis) to believe he can do the same thing with a fourth.

His vanity knows no bounds, nor does the breadth of his four-letter-word vocabulary. His tantrums are edging closer, day by day, to those displays of lunatic anger seen too often on city pavements by deinstitutionalized paranoid schizophrenics, gesticulating wildly about who knows what. Like pedestrians encountering the madmen on the street, his players have learned to cross to the other side.

But one occasionally stumbles into his path, like Greg Ellis.

Which brings us to that sniveling, craven whiner who craftily found a way to collect an unearned paycheck for all these years. Too shiftless and lazy to learn a new role, Ellis prefers to spread dissension in the ranks. Preferring the glory of 4-3 sack numbers, he obstinately refuses to put the team ahead of himself, worried only about all those endorsements playing as a 4-3 end have brought him. He cares only about remaining a household name.

A vestige of the owner's longtime philanthropy and lack of football acumen, this cunning, duplicitous character had virtually everyone convinced he was a company man (and a defensive end). Selfishly hogging an RDE free ride, he laid low while during Ekubust's long execution, and schemed to steal Wiley's job description. Now exploiting the gullible press to achieve his prime objective - a TRADE to a team where his name will continue to fall from every fan's lips - this conniving and mediocrely performing scoundral concocted a plot by which to sabatoge the 3-4, get a free ticket out, and leave the team in moral disarray. He seeks only to extend his crime - impersonating a defensive end - for as many seasons as he can.

Two more convincing villains could not be found in Hollywood.
 

Alexander

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LaTunaNostra said:
I don't see that at all, Alexander.

All I see is calm, reflective analysis concluding that Bill Parcells is a universally over-rated meglomanical dictator with so many control freak issues he can't even entertain the thought of a veteran player inquiring about his role without resorting to a profanity laced diatribe.

Trying to mask his own failures as a coach (and who knows...perhaps inadequacies as the lover of woman half his age), his basic insecurity won't allow for any challenges to his tyrannical concept of authority. His lifelong ego-centered perspective has convinced him that he has the right, and even the duty, to shout down any semblance of dissent. His sense of entitlement is based on his continual grandious delusions that he is the only head coach in NFL history to have turned around not one, but THREE abysmally performing franchises, and he has the unmitigated gall (or deep seated psychosis) to believe he can do the same thing with a fourth.

His vanity knows no bounds, nor does the breadth of his four-letter-word vocabulary. His tantrums are edging closer, day by day, to those displays of lunatic anger seen too often on city pavements by deinstitutionalized paranoid schizophrenics, gesticulating wildly about who knows what. Like pedestrians encountering the madmen on the street, his players have learned to cross to the other side.

But one occasionally stumbles into his path, like Greg Ellis.

Which brings us to that sniveling, craven whiner who craftily found a way to collect an unearned paycheck for all these years. Too shiftless and lazy to learn a new role, Ellis prefers to spread dissension in the ranks. Preferring the glory of 4-3 sack numbers, he obstinately refuses to put the team ahead of himself, worried only about all those endorsements playing as a 4-3 end have brought him. He cares only about remaining a household name.

A vestige of the owner's longtime philanthropy and lack of football acumen, this cunning, duplicitous character had virtually everyone convinced he was a company man (and a defensive end). Selfishly hogging an RDE free ride, he laid low while during Ekubust's long execution, and schemed to steal Wiley's job description. Now exploiting the gullible press to achieve his prime objective - a TRADE to a team where his name will continue to fall from every fan's lips - this conniving and mediocrely performing scoundral concocted a plot by which to sabatoge the 3-4, get a free ticket out, and leave the team in moral disarray. He seeks only to extend his crime - impersonating a defensive end - for as many seasons as he can.

Two more convincing villains could not be found in Hollywood.

LOL!!!!
 

LaTunaNostra

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Alexander said:
What's really funny, imo, is that when you have as smooooth an offseason as we have, nice draft, some good signings, no arrests, the biggest 'bump' the Hunter trade....it's like we're DEPRIVED of some level of excitement, and want to make up for all we've 'missed', by building the molehill into the mountain at the 11th hour. :p:

Those lucky Skins fan..what a fun offseason THEY had compared to us!!
 
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