ESPN: Goodell's Conduct Policy Has Some Gray Areas

[5Stars]

What are you talking about? Who said anything about the courts?

And I told you I'm not getting paid to do it. It would be a significant undertaking and I don't have the time or desire to do it.

No, but if you're an employer and decide to start punishing them in ways that cost parties millions of dollars (the players aren't the only ones losing out), then I'd suggest getting a lawyer to help you out.

Who on earth said anything about the court system or the law?

As I thought! You are not getting paid to do it, yet you moan and groan about it. This is exactely why it says "at the descrestion"(sp ) of the Commish!

You did? You brought the "lawyer" crap into it, when I asked you not too!

 

[theogt]

As I thought! You are not getting paid to do it, yet you moan and groan about it. This is exactely why it says "at the descrestion"(sp ) of the Commish!

What? Can I not tell you something isn't perfect without having to come up with a perfect alternative? Why does the former require the latter?

You did? You brought the "lawyer" crap into it, when I asked you not too!

What are you talking about? I said law firms deal with more complex problems (and, accordingly, draft more complex documents) on a daily basis. What does that have to do with the law or the courts?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Is that not exactly what I said, but in fewer words?

just saying it doen't make sense is talking in general, meaning the statement is illogical, but when you include yourself into the statement, it means it doesn't make sense to you

idk, but again, when I say something doesn't make sense, it's meaning I think it's illogical, I guess it's just me who sees a difference between "it doesn't make sense" and "it doesn't make sense to me"

 

[5Stars]

What? Can I not tell you something isn't perfect without having to come up with a perfect alternative? Why does the former require the latter?

What are you talking about? I said law firms deal with more complex problems (and, accordingly, draft more complex documents) on a daily basis. What does that have to do with the law or the courts?

There is no way in hell a lawyer or anyone else that can come up with a solution that punishes bad behavior in the thousands of way a player can behave and make it consistant!

Yeah, I don't make sense at all...you make all the sense in the world. You cannot even make a proposal on how the Commish can be "consistant" with bad behavior, yet you and others can moan and groan about, huh?

And screw the million of dollars that player might lose! If the player is a dumb bastid...he doesn't need to have that kind of cash to begin with!

Anyway, carry on...

 

[theogt]

There is no way in hell a lawyer or anyone else that can come up with a solution that punishes bad behavior in the thousands of way a player can behave and make it consistant!

Again, just because you can't imagine it, doesn't mean it can't happen.

Yeah, I don't make sense at all...you make all the sense in the world. You cannot even make a proposal on how the Commish can be "consistant" with bad behavior, yet you and others can moan and groan about, huh?

There's a nice chasm between spending hours and hours working on a proposal and coming up with one instantly on the internet. Somehow I don't think being unable to do the latter precludes the former.

And screw the million of dollars that player might lose! If the player is a dumb bastid...he doesn't need to have that kind of cash to begin with!

Anyway, carry on...

Great. I'm glad it's your decision who makes money and who doesn't. Can I please make a lot of money? I enjoy it.

 

[5Stars]

Again, just because you can't imagine it, doesn't mean it can't happen.

There's a nice chasm between spending hours and hours working on a proposal and coming up with one instantly on the internet. Somehow I don't think being unable to do the latter precludes the former.

Great. I'm glad it's your decision who makes money and who doesn't. Can I please make a lot of money? I enjoy it.

Make all the money you want, theogt! Just stay out of trouble if you work for me, OK?

 

[jay cee]

I actually think it's a combination of contriteness on his part, and the fact that he paid his debt to society already

So in your opinion, it is actually better to commit a crime that is punishable with jail time than to just be an idiot doing stupid crap.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

So in your opinion, it is actually better to commit a crime that is punishable with jail time than to just be an idiot doing stupid crap.

one is worse than the other, both bad the same, I agree that Tank should see a 1-year suspension

but he's not, oh well

 

[jay cee]

Did I just ask you to leave the freaking law out of this?!! This is not a matter of the courts!!!! What part of that do you not understand?

I specifically said that anything "outside" the court of law! I asked you how YOU would handle bad behavior on a "consistant level" regarding the thousands of ways a player can harm the reputation of the NFL.

Do I need a lawyer to dicipline my children if they get into trouble? If I need to punish my kids for bad behavior, should I call a lawyer first? I mean, they have not been convicted in a court of a law?

Leave the "lawyer", the "court", the "justice system" crap out of this. How can players recieve punishment on a consistant basis...

If you have kids and you have no rhyme or reason as to how you punish them when they do something wrong and you give one a more severe punishment than the other, I would call you a poor excuse for a parent.

That's what this thread was about, the commish did not seem to consistent with his punishment.

 

[jay cee]

one is worse than the other, both bad the same, I agree that Tank should see a 1-year suspension

but he's not, oh well

So why are you arguing with those who feel like the commissioner made a mistake?

Just feel like typing, huh?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

So why are you arguing with those who feel like the commissioner made a mistake?

Just feel like typing, huh?

I'm only pointing out that Goodell hasn't overreached his bounds yet, which everyone seems to want to warn us about

hell, I even tried to explain to burm what Goodell had to be consistent about

and just because I feel Goodell wasn't being consistent doesn't mean I think he made a mistake, he had every right to do it

 

[peplaw06]

There is no way in hell a lawyer or anyone else that can come up with a solution that punishes bad behavior in the thousands of way a player can behave and make it consistant!

*raises hand*

Uh, I think the legal system we have in place in America does exactly that.

 

[theogt]

*raises hand*

Uh, I think the legal system we have in place in America does exactly that.

But that legal system was thought up by gnomes, not actual lawyers. If only we had more gnomes.

 

[Hypnotoad]

*raises hand*

Uh, I think the legal system we have in place in America does exactly that.

Give Goodell 200 some years, and I'll guarantee he will work the kinks out of this policy.

This post goes in circles, and theres insults flying left and right.

For those tuning in:

Theogt wants a clear specific policy with set penalties that eliminates the gray areas, yet proposes no solution or frame describing how to get it done. Just says outsource it. Also peppers replies with insults.

Bob Sacamano feels that since there is no problems happening right now we shouldn't start worrying about the policy. But what happens when a new commissioner takes Goodell's place. Will they be fair? What if a penalty system is proposed, will that commissioner become the next David Stern?

5Stars listed the crimes hes committed this weekend in chronological order starting from Saturday Morning to Sunday Night.

Hypnotoad is sleepy.

 

[lspain1]

Right now the league is being hit by a storm of misconduct. The new Conduct policy is designed to deter those type of player from being drafted, take away the play time of those currently active, and to kick them out of the league if necessary. There is no need for consistency if you do the right job drafting/punishing players. I don't think one day, suddenly, Payton manning is going to start going to strip clubs and making it rain, bite a cop, or lie about his prior criminal activity. So the need for a consistent set of punishments is not going to effect him or a majority of other players who aren't involved in those kind activities anyway.

Hypnotoad is sleepy.

You may be sleepy Hypnotoad but you succinctly stated both the correct rationale for action and why consistency is at the bottom of the list of requirements. Those that refuse to recognize this miss the whole point.

 

[theogt]

You may be sleepy Hypnotoad but you succinctly stated both the correct rationale for action and why consistency is at the bottom of the list of requirements. Those that refuse to recognize this miss the whole point.

Perhaps you could explain. How does inconsistency deter any more than consistency? Shouldn't it deter less?

 

[Vintage]

Originally Posted by Hypnotoad
Right now the league is being hit by a storm of misconduct. The new Conduct policy is designed to deter those type of player from being drafted, take away the play time of those currently active, and to kick them out of the league if necessary. There is no need for consistency if you do the right job drafting/punishing players. I don't think one day, suddenly, Payton manning is going to start going to strip clubs and making it rain, bite a cop, or lie about his prior criminal activity. So the need for a consistent set of punishments is not going to effect him or a majority of other players who aren't involved in those kind activities anyway

Which is irrelevant. Why does our justice system try to establish a set punishment for crimes?

Why not just randomly spin a wheel and select a punishment?

Because the punishment has to fit the 'crime.'

 

[superpunk]

You may be sleepy Hypnotoad but you succinctly stated both the correct rationale for action and why consistency is at the bottom of the list of requirements. Those that refuse to recognize this miss the whole point.

You've got to be kidding.

That IS the whole point.

 

[lspain1]

You've got to be kidding.

That IS the whole point.

That is simply wrong. No system will EVER be completely consistent because it is made and administered by human beings. The point is to deter bad behavior. You folks (and the author Floyd Reese) continue to dismiss the bad behavior (see Fred's "I'm in complete support") and fault the NFL for various and sundry "failures."

The whole "two wrongs don't make a right" argument chokes on the gnat while it swallows the camel. Hypnotoad's point about the "storm of misconduct" should be your focus....but it's not.

 

[superpunk]

That is simply wrong. No system will EVER be completely consistent because it is made and administered by human beings. The point is to deter bad behavior. You folks (and the author Floyd Reese) continue to dismiss the bad behavior (see Fred's "I'm in complete support") and fault the NFL for various and sundry "failures."

The whole "two wrongs don't make a right" argument chokes on the gnat while it swallows the camel. Hypnotoad's point about the "storm of bad behavior" should be your focus....but it's not.

You continue to not know how to read. Noone dismisses the bad behavior - no misquoted biblical metaphor is going to change that.

This isn't about the behavior, save for how the extent of misbehavior relates to the severity of punishment.

Half this damn forum needs a reading comprehension course.