ESPN Mosley Chat Wrap - 05/12/09... lots of 'boys

[KingintheNorth]

Hicks is the one player that if they didn't have, I wouldn't be taking their potential over what we have. Again, it is about the sum, not the individuals. And of course, I am going off potential. I might be wrong, but I would go with more talent over our statistical "advantage".

Agree 100% with that statement.

 

[Bach]

According to Gosselin, he talks with personnel people from all 32 teams.

McGinn quoted 15 personnel people by name and many others anonymously, and none of those that he named worked for the Cowboys --

Bill Polian, Indianapolis Colts president
AJ Smith, San Diego Chargers GM
Thomas Dimitroff, Atlanta Falcons GM
Jerry Angelo, Chicago Bears GM
Phil Savage, former Cleveland Browns GM
Eric DeCosta, Baltimore Ravens director of player personnel
Tom Modrak, Buffalo Bills vice president
Trent Baalke, San Francisco 49ers director of player personnel
C.O. Brocato, Tennessee Titans national scouting surpervisor
Tony Softli, St. Louis Rams vice president/player personnel
Blake Beddingfield, Tennessee Titans scouting coordinator
Johnny Meads, Tennessee Titans scout
Shemy Schembechler, Washington Commanders scout
Jerry Hardaway, Arizona Cardinals scout
Charles Fisher, Seattle Seahawks scout

How many of these had Jason Williams and Brewster as third rounders, or are they just scouts that were talked to?

 

[dadymat]

You realize that you left out our No. 1 receiver but included theirs, don't you?

it made his argument look better that way

 

[zrinkill]

The following are career totals for the players listed in Mosley's answer.

Domenik Hixon: 44 - 601 - 2 TD
Hakeem Nicks: rookie
Steve Smith: 65 - 637 - 1 TD
Ramses Barden: rookie
Mario Manningham: 4 - 26 - 0 TD

Giants totals: 113 - 1264 - 3 TD

Roy Williams: 281 - 4082 - 30 TD
Miles Austin: 18 - 354 - 3 TD
Sam Hurd: 24 - 389 - 1 TD
Patrick Crayton: 159 - 2266 - 18 TD

Cowboys totals: 482 - 7091 - 52 TD
.

You should send that to him.

 

[KingintheNorth]

 

[AdamJT13]

I would think anyone who'd be willing to give their name would be completely unwilling to bash anyone's draft picks seeing how they one day might be trying to sign or work with a player as a free agent.

McGinn talked to them -- those he named and others who remained anonymous -- BEFORE the draft and compiled his rankings based on their input.

It had nothing to do with "bashing anyone's draft picks," because they weren't anyone's draft picks at the time. And the guys he named had plenty of negative things to say, too.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I think Jason Williams is going to be a stud in three years. Maybe not a Patrick Willis or something like that, but I think he is going be very good probably in the mold of Bradie James, but with better character.

 

[AdamJT13]

How many of these had Jason Williams and Brewster as third rounders, or are they just scouts that were talked to?

McGinn didn't have Brewster as a third-rounder, he had him as a fourth-rounder. Williams was a third-rounder.

You'd have to ask McGinn exactly how many of the personnel people had Williams ranked where, but why would McGinn rank Williams in the third round if most of his sources said otherwise? Did he simply ignore what his sources said and decide to rank Williams ahead of Ramses Barden, Kraig Urbik, Jason Phillips, Roy Miller, Brandon Tate, Derrick Williams, Terrance Knighton, etc., etc., etc. on his own?

 

[KingintheNorth]

using all the WR's

our #1 vs their #1 and so on..

Roy Williams vs Domenik Hixon. Williams and it isn't even close.

Miles Austin vs Hakeem Nicks. I'm hoping like heck Austin is the better player but that's wishful thinking. Nicks was a first round pick, Austin wasn't worth a low 2nd rounder(according to the Jets). Both are all about potential and I feel Nicks will have a much better career.

Patrick Crayton vs Steve Smith - I know many will say Crayton has the career stats but they had similar stats in 2008.
Smith 57-574-10.1 AVG-1 TD
Crayton 39 -550 -14.1 AVG - 4 TD
Smith is 6 years younger and faster. I'd go with Smith.

Sam Hurd vs Mario Manningham - Manningham.

Isaiah Stanback vs Sinorice Moss - If you use the stat argument it's clearly Moss. I love Stanback's potential but his inability to get on the field is alarming. I'll call this a wash.

Manuel Johnson vs Ramses Barden - 3rd rounder beats a 7th rounder in my book. Barden may end up killing us in the Red Zone over the next few years. I'm not sure Johnson makes the roster.

 

[Woods]

using all the WR's

our #1 vs their #1 and so on..

Roy Williams vs Domenik Hixon. Williams and it isn't even close.

Miles Austin vs Hakeem Nicks. I'm hoping like heck Austin is the better player but that's wishful thinking. Nicks was a first round pick, Austin wasn't worth a low 2nd rounder(according to the Jets). Both are all about potential and I feel Nicks will have a much better career.

Patrick Crayton vs Steve Smith - I know many will say Crayton has the career stats but they had similar stats Smith in 2008.
Smith 57-574-10.1 AVG-1 TD
Crayton 39 -550 -14.1 AVG - 4 TD
Smith is 6 years younger and faster. I'd go with Smith.

Sam Hurd vs Mario Manningham - Manningham.

Isaiah Stanback vs Sinorice Moss - If you use the stat argument it's clearly Moss. I love Stanback's potential but his inability to get on the field is alarming. I'll call this a wash.

Ramses Barden vs Manuel Johnson - 3rd rounder beats a 7th rounder in my book. Barden may end up killing us in the Red Zone over the next few years. I'm not sure Johnson makes the roster.

Justs playing the odds, I'm going to bet that between Sinorice Moss, Nicks, Barden, and Manningham, who are all relatively inexperienced in the pros, at least one of those guys is going to be considered a bust.

My bet is it's going to be Moss and Manningham. And I don't see Barden gettting the necessary separation in the pros. Maybe he'll be a good red zone target.

Let's see how this all plays out.

 

[AdamJT13]

I do. I said earlier that Roy was clearly better than anyone they had. To me the question is would you rather have our 6 WR's or their 6 WR's. I just feel that overall, they have a better WR corp.

So it makes sense to you to leave out our No. 1 receiver when you compare the receiving corps head-to-head? Would you agree with someone who included Williams for us but left Steve Smith out for the Giants?

Oh, wait, let me guess. You'd take Nicks over Williams, Hixon over Crayton, Manningham over Austin ...

 

[Bach]

McGinn didn't have Brewster as a third-rounder, he had him as a fourth-rounder. Williams was a third-rounder.

You'd have to ask McGinn exactly how many of the personnel people had Williams ranked where, but why would McGinn rank Williams in the third round if most of his sources said otherwise? Did he simply ignore what his sources said and decide to rank Williams ahead of Ramses Barden, Kraig Urbik, Jason Phillips, Roy Miller, Brandon Tate, Derrick Williams, Terrance Knighton, etc., etc., etc. on his own?

I guess you'd have to ask McGinn why he rated Williams there.

Moseley talked to quite a few scouts too. He even said, "Too many big-time personnel guys have told me off-the-record that Jason Williams was a curious pick at No. 69." And I don't know of anyone who talks to more scouts and personnel men than Kiper and he said Dallas "went out and reached on Jason Williams and Robert Brewster."

Apparently Gosselin/McGinn and then Moseley, Kiper, McShay and dozens of others are all talking to different insiders and scouts.

 

[Woods]

Receivers aside, the only thing that concerns me about the Giants is their DL.

IMO, their offense will be more one dimensional this year without Burress, and our defense should be able to handle their offense, assuming we're healthy.

If we can handle the Giants DL, we'll be fine.

 

[KingintheNorth]

So it makes sense to you to leave out our No. 1 receiver when you compare the receiving corps head-to-head? Would you agree with someone who included Williams for us but left Steve Smith out for the Giants?

Oh, wait, let me guess. You'd take Nicks over Williams, Hixon over Crayton, Manningham over Austin ...

I see your point. See post 109.

 

[AdamJT13]

Roy Williams vs Domenik Hixon. Williams and it isn't even close.

Seriously, you think Hixon will be the Giants' No. 1 receiver? And you STILL think their receivers are better than ours?

Austin wasn't worth a low 2nd rounder(according to the Jets).

It doesn't work that way. Austin wasn't worth the second-round pick PLUS the $19 million contract (or whatever it was), considering that they might be able to get him next year without giving up any picks.

Patrick Crayton vs Steve Smith - I know many will say Crayton has the career stats but they had similar stats Smith in 2008.
Smith 57-574-10.1 AVG-1 TD
Crayton 39 -550 -14.1 AVG - 4 TD
Smith is 6 years younger and faster. I'd go with Smith.

Yep, gotta love that one career touchdown and 9.8 yards per catch.

Sam Hurd vs Mario Manningham - Manningham.

Not to mention zero career touchdowns and 6.5 yards per catch.

 

[AdamJT13]

I guess you'd have to ask McGinn why he rated Williams there.

Maybe because his sources specifically told him Williams would go in the third round?

Moseley talked to quite a few scouts too.

Not enough, obviously, if he can't find even one who ranked Williams in the third round. Maybe he should try talking to, oh, say, Jerry Angelo?

And I don't know of anyone who talks to more scouts and personnel men than Kiper

You cannot be serious.

 

[AsthmaField]

using all the WR's

our #1 vs their #1 and so on..

Roy Williams vs Domenik Hixon. Williams and it isn't even close.

Miles Austin vs Hakeem Nicks. I'm hoping like heck Austin is the better player but that's wishful thinking. Nicks was a first round pick, Austin wasn't worth a low 2nd rounder(according to the Jets). Both are all about potential and I feel Nicks will have a much better career.

Patrick Crayton vs Steve Smith - I know many will say Crayton has the career stats but they had similar stats in 2008.
Smith 57-574-10.1 AVG-1 TD
Crayton 39 -550 -14.1 AVG - 4 TD
Smith is 6 years younger and faster. I'd go with Smith.

Sam Hurd vs Mario Manningham - Manningham.

Isaiah Stanback vs Sinorice Moss - If you use the stat argument it's clearly Moss. I love Stanback's potential but his inability to get on the field is alarming. I'll call this a wash.

Manuel Johnson vs Ramses Barden - 3rd rounder beats a 7th rounder in my book. Barden may end up killing us in the Red Zone over the next few years. I'm not sure Johnson makes the roster.

The Giants used a #1 on Nicks... they plan on him being their #1 WR, so I'll compare R Williams to Nicks.

Williams vs. Nicks - I'll take Williams. I like Nicks but he hasn't proven anything in the NFL. He might one day become what Williams is already is, and the Giants would take that any day of the week.

That gives us Austin vs. Hixon - I'll take Austin over Hixon any day.

Crayton vs. Smith - Stats aside... I like Smith as a 3rd option better than I like Crayton. Crayton has better hands but Smith is better everywhere else.

Beyond those three, it doesn't even matter that much, but I do like Hurd as a 4th guy because he's such a hard worker, a good special team's guy, a good blocker and is good in the locker room. Manningham can't touch any of that, even though he might be a more talented guy. Neither of them will see much action as a WR barring injuries, and Hurd's special teams, etc. will help Dallas much more than Manningham will help the Giants in those areas.

JMO

 

[Bach]

Maybe because his sources specifically told him Williams would go in the third round?

Which ones?

Not enough, obviously, if he can't find even one who ranked Williams in the third round. Maybe he should try talking to, oh, say, Jerry Angelo?

Maybe he should talk to Jerry Angelo. Maybe Gosselin should expand the list of scouts and personnel men they talk to also.

You cannot be serious.

Quite. You don't think Kiper talks to scouts / personnel men?

 

[AsthmaField]

And I don't know of anyone who talks to more scouts and personnel men than Kiper

Yeah, Kiper and Polian are like that...:crossed:

 

[AsthmaField]

Which ones?

You may be a lot of things, Bach... but dumb isn't one of them.

He listened to all of those personnel guys that Adam listed, then made his mock... which after hearing the NFL men, he listed Williams in the third.

That should tell you that the majority of those guys thought Williams would be going in the 3rd round. Which one's actually said it, isn't important. That the majority of them said round 3, IS important. That's why he listed him as a 3rd rounder.