ESPN Mosley Chat Wrap - 05/12/09... lots of 'boys

[AdamJT13]

It was a question to you based on what you said previously:



I took it to imply that Gosselin and McGinn talk to actual scouts, as if, none of these other writers/draft experts such as Moseley, Kiper or McShay do.

So do you think these other guys talk to actual scouts?

Not enough of them, apparently.

How else would you explain the fact that two guys who talk to numerous actual scouts/GMs both ranked Williams in the third round, while Mosley "can't find anyone" who ranks Williams that high?

 

[Alexander]

My point is those guys are still rookies or second year guys, who havent done much if anything in the NFL. It usually takes a few years for WRs to adjust to life in the NFL an advantage Miles and Crayton both have over those guys.

I don't think Austin has much over on any of them. This is what, his third year? Make no mistake, I like his potential very much, but even I cannot say he's "proven" any more than I could say that about their players. He's about as proven as Sinorice Moss.

IMO when you make a statement about who has the best WRs you have to weigh it towards the starters. Roy Williams is clearly heads and shoulders above anything NY has, he is a true #1, something they sorely lack.

Williams' inability to be consistent is why I don't consider him a "true #1" yet. Would I take him over anyone they have? Certainly, but it is not because he's absolutely a proven number one elite WR.

Even if you give Hixon and Smith the nod over Miles and Crayton you still have cant say they have better WRs then us. Manningham etc.. are all pie in the sky til they actually get on the field and make some plays in my opinion.

They have to prove it, but as I said before, I'd gamble on being right with the preponderance of talent. They have four potentially very good receivers. We have what...two? Even we had even two sure things it would be easy to choose Dallas, but I cannot even say we have more than one. Overall, I'd take their group, again based on potential.

 

[Bach]

Not enough of them, apparently.

How else would you explain the fact that two guys who talk to numerous actual scouts/GMs both ranked Williams in the third round, while Mosley "can't find anyone" who ranks Williams that high?

Who's scouts did Gosselin talk to, the Cowboys'?

 

[Randy White]

Who in their right mind would take their receiving corps over ours?

Matt Mosely..



Oh wait, you said " right mind "... excuse me then.

Mosely doesn't know what a mind is.

 

[Randy White]

Like I said, Mosley obviously didn't consult with Gosselin (the end-all-be-all draft guru). .

Gosselin ain't no " draft guru ". He doesn't tell you who's going to be good. He doesn't tell you who's going to be a bust. He doesn't tell you who's better than whom.

He is, however, BETTER connected to the NFL front offices than anybody in the business and there isn't a reporter with BETTER information about what those NFL front offices think when it comes to the draft.

 

[Randy White]

so than why are you asking for 5 different draft sites/experts when you know there was more than that?

because he's asking WHO made them " experts " ...

 

[Randy White]

I am a Cowboy fan, but I would trade our receivers for the Giant's receivers in a second.

Really ?

Explain why would you do such a foolish thing.

 

[Randy White]

He loses a ton of credibility with me saying the Giants have a better group of WRs then Dallas. Smith, Hixon and who knows what in a rookie are not better then a proven #1 in RW and a decent #2 in Crayton. Hixon and Smith are average at best, neither is nearly good enough to be a #1. They might have bigger upside with some of their young guys but that all it is upside.

That was one of THE dumbest things Mosely has ever said and he's got a phone book size portfolio of 'em.


Just one simple fact alone makes him look stupid:

Fact: Patrick Crayton has 3 times as many TD catches as ALL their receivers COMBINED.. Patrick Crayton.. Not former Pro Bowler, #1 receiver Roy Williams, but Patrick Crayton, who's been, at best, a 3rd receiving option, realistcally the 4th option, for his entire career in Dallas.

If I didn't dislike BSPN so much, I'd suggest they sued Mosely for stealing their money.

 

[NeonNinja]

Not enough of them, apparently.

How else would you explain the fact that two guys who talk to numerous actual scouts/GMs both ranked Williams in the third round, while Mosley "can't find anyone" who ranks Williams that high?

Exactly.

 

[Randy White]

Mosley is accurate here.

No he isn't.. Not even by a long shot.

There is more collective talent in that group than we can match. Nothing is "proven" but I would always go with the talent over those with limitations. Like it or not, our group has them, whether it be inexperience, lack of consistency or quite frankly, inferior skills.

There's no " more collective talent ". That's purely 100% BS. However, there is " more collective HYPE ".

Fact: There isn't ANY wr in NY who's more talented than Roy Williams. That's not an opinion, it's a fact, so we'll put him aside for now, even though that would end the argument right there.

Who's to say that ANY of the Midgets' WR is " more talented " than Austin ? more " talented " than Crayton ? In what way ? Go ahead and name them..

 

[Randy White]

You are undervaluing Smith significantly. He's demonstrated an ability to get open and make plays, even as a third receiver which he was with Toomer on the roster.

Smith couldn't carry Crayton's jock, who's been behind the likes of T.O, Terry Glenn, Witten, Barber ( yes, THAT Barber ) and even Roy Williams when it comes to pecking order of catches, so don't give me that garbage about " third receiver ".

Hixon is what Austin could be once he shows he can stay on the field.

Hixon has been cut TWICE by two teams, including the Giants themselves. He has a career whopping 600 yards with TWO touchdowns.

Miles has 400 yards with THREE touchdowns in his career, so exactly WHY would Miles wants or hopes to be Hixon ?

Manningham, Hicks and Barden have a distinct and clear talent advantage over the remaider of our roster

Hicks ? Probably. Barden and Manningham ? who are they more " talented " than ?

 

[KingintheNorth]

I think it is hilarious that if someone says the Cowboys had a good draft then they are credible and if someone says they had a bad draft they are a hack.

If someone says that they spoke with scouts who liked Williams in the 3rd they are credible and if someone says that they spoke with scouts who thought Williams was a reach they are of course, not credible.

I'm wondering about one thing. Last year, when the Cowboys had a really good draft and many of these same draft sites, writers, etc. graded them high were the same people on here saying they were all hacks?

History has shown that Jerry has had some pretty bad drafts. I'm talking franchise-crippling drafts. If you look at the drafts that were not run by Jimmie Johnson and Bill Parcells and you can see we have considerably more misses than hits. Those guys missed too but not as bad as Jerry.

Look, I love the Cowboys and I will root like hell for the current group of draftees. I just wish we had a competent football GM. Being a Cowboy fan does not mean drinking the koolaid.

Also, I would much rather have the Giants group of WR's than ours.. Roy is better than anything they have but their overall depth ..Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, Hixon, Moss, Hakeem Nicks, and Ramses Barden.. beats ours.
I know already, some of those guys haven't proven anything yet but yet it's okay for us to say Miles Austin has unlimited potential?

 

[Randy White]

Also, I would much rather have the Giants group of WR's than ours.. Roy is better than anything they have but their overall depth ..Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, Hixon, Moss, Hakeem Nicks, and Ramses Barden.. beats ours.
I

in what measurable way they " beat ours " ?

 

[KingintheNorth]

in what measurable way they " beat ours " ?

talent level.

That is my opinion and in this case, I agree with Mosely's opinion. I don't always.

I'd take Smith over Crayton.
I'd take Nicks over Austin.
I'd take Hixon over Hurd.
I'd take Manningham over Stanback.
I'd take Barden over Manuel Johnson.
I'd take Sinorice Moss over Ogletree.

I'm still going to root for our guys and root against their guys.

 

[dadymat]

The following are career totals for the players listed in Mosley's answer.

Domenik Hixon: 44 - 601 - 2 TD
Hakeem Nicks: rookie
Steve Smith: 65 - 637 - 1 TD
Ramses Barden: rookie
Mario Manningham: 4 - 26 - 0 TD

Giants totals: 113 - 1264 - 3 TD

Roy Williams: 281 - 4082 - 30 TD
Miles Austin: 18 - 354 - 3 TD
Sam Hurd: 24 - 389 - 1 TD
Patrick Crayton: 159 - 2266 - 18 TD

Cowboys totals: 482 - 7091 - 52 TD

this says it all...in the WR business experience gets the advantage......Hixon , Nicks ,Smith and Mannningham.....yes they all have potential...guess what..so does Stanback.....potential dont mean jack.....Roy is clearly better than anyone on both teams, and Crayton is WAY undervalued...hes a nice 2 he just gets bad rap for his disastrous playoff game against Giants....hes made some nice plays for us now he should get more chances to make some more.....if Austin stays healthy and is what we seen from him last season in his limited role he could be a star..as it is ..right now.. i would take Austin over any WR they have...... Hurd=JAG

 

[AdamJT13]

Who's scouts did Gosselin talk to, the Cowboys'?

According to Gosselin, he talks with personnel people from all 32 teams.

McGinn quoted 15 personnel people by name and many others anonymously, and none of those that he named worked for the Cowboys --

Bill Polian, Indianapolis Colts president
AJ Smith, San Diego Chargers GM
Thomas Dimitroff, Atlanta Falcons GM
Jerry Angelo, Chicago Bears GM
Phil Savage, former Cleveland Browns GM
Eric DeCosta, Baltimore Ravens director of player personnel
Tom Modrak, Buffalo Bills vice president
Trent Baalke, San Francisco 49ers director of player personnel
C.O. Brocato, Tennessee Titans national scouting surpervisor
Tony Softli, St. Louis Rams vice president/player personnel
Blake Beddingfield, Tennessee Titans scouting coordinator
Johnny Meads, Tennessee Titans scout
Shemy Schembechler, Washington Commanders scout
Jerry Hardaway, Arizona Cardinals scout
Charles Fisher, Seattle Seahawks scout

 

[AdamJT13]

talent level.

That is my opinion and in this case, I agree with Mosely's opinion. I don't always.

I'd take Smith over Crayton.
I'd take Nicks over Austin.
I'd take Hixon over Hurd.
I'd take Manningham over Stanback.
I'd take Barden over Manuel Johnson.
I'd take Sinorice Moss over Ogletree.

I'm still going to root for our guys and root against their guys.

You realize that you left out our No. 1 receiver but included theirs, don't you?

 

[KingintheNorth]

I would think anyone who'd be willing to give their name would be completely unwilling to bash anyone's draft picks seeing how they one day might be trying to sign or work with a player as a free agent.

 

[Alexander]

Smith couldn't carry Crayton's jock
who's been behind the likes of T.O, Terry Glenn, Witten, Barber ( yes, THAT Barber ) and even Roy Williams when it comes to pecking order of catches, so don't give me that garbage about " third receiver ".

He's exactly as I stated. A very good third WR, easily one of the best if not the best in the conference. Smith has this year to show he's better, and I have no doubt he will. Smith has been in his own pecking order behind Burress, Jacobs, Ward and Toomer. And he's excelled in that role.

Hixon has been cut TWICE by two teams, including the Giants themselves. He has a career whopping 600 yards with TWO touchdowns.

And? Keenan McCardell was cut MULTIPLE times until he latched on and was a very effective WR. Your logic here is weak and that's being very generous.

Miles has 400 yards with THREE touchdowns in his career, so exactly WHY would Miles wants or hopes to be Hixon ?

How about stay on the field and maybe start a game or two? How about simply contribute more? Hixon has played in 16 career games and started seven. Austin has yet to notch a start, has fewer catches and fewer yards.

Again, I like the player, but he's not consistent and hasn't been able to grasp opportunities with regularity, even as a third WR. That's his issue. Hixon is a similar player and has actually done more. So I'd say Austin needs to get consistent to get to his level since their skillset is nearly identical.

Hicks ? Probably.

Hicks is the one player that if they didn't have, I wouldn't be taking their potential over what we have. Again, it is about the sum, not the individuals. And of course, I am going off potential. I might be wrong, but I would go with more talent over our statistical "advantage".

Barden and Manningham ? who are they more " talented " than ?

Hurd. Stanback. In fact, I don't think either could "carry their jocks".

 

[KingintheNorth]

You realize that you left out our No. 1 receiver but included theirs, don't you?

I do. I said earlier that Roy was clearly better than anyone they had. To me the question is would you rather have our 6 WR's or their 6 WR's. I just feel that overall, they have a better WR corp.