ESPN: Officer delayed Moats as relative died

jobberone

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boyzjunkie;2708643 said:
Rather than viewing this as him "screwing up", I tend to view it as someone who slipped by the department's personality evaluation prior to his being hired.
It may be in everyone's best interest, especially the officer in question, to get him out of the position of authority he appears to be emotionally unsuited for. Hopefully he will be psychologically reevaluated to determine his aptitude to continue on as an officer of the law. His recorded behavior is sketchy at best. More likely a precursor to more such behavior.

And you can tell he's incapable of doing his job because you saw him do something insensitive, aggressive, yada on a video.

The fact Zack is speaking up makes me suspicious but I'm still not jumping to conclusions. Again if he has enough problems managing people from his position then they deal with it appropriately.

I call it a witch hunt because so many here think they know enough about the guy to fire him. No one knows this guy. The department will deal with it hopefully in an appropriate fashion. I'm not saying he should or shouldn't work as a police officer. I say have him evaluated appropriately perhaps even psychologically then deal with the facts.

I get visions of pitchforks and axes chasing down Frankenstein. It truly annoys me but nearly as much as it saddens me. My last parting words.
 

Mansta54

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jobberone;2708838 said:
And you can tell he's incapable of doing his job because you saw him do something insensitive, aggressive, yada on a video.

The fact Zack is speaking up makes me suspicious but I'm still not jumping to conclusions. Again if he has enough problems managing people from his position then they deal with it appropriately.

I call it a witch hunt because so many here think they know enough about the guy to fire him. No one knows this guy. The department will deal with it hopefully in an appropriate fashion. I'm not saying he should or shouldn't work as a police officer. I say have him evaluated appropriately perhaps even psychologically then deal with the facts.

I get visions of pitchforks and axes chasing down Frankenstein. It truly annoys me but nearly as much as it saddens me. My last parting words.

:clap2: Thank goodness!!!!:rolleyes:
 

jobberone

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Mansta54;2708842 said:
:clap2: Thank goodness!!!!:rolleyes:


I suppose you're one of those wanting to fire him without investigating appropriately. Fire him for being insensitive so now you act insensitive because you think my opinion is entirely different from yours. And it's not.

People point out the other side of the coin and the ones jumping to conclusions assume you're defending him entirely.

You just make my points more relevant.
 

Dodger12

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Bleu Star;2708307 said:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hopefully you're never in a situation where you have a very close loved one in the passenger seat that just had a heart attack and you're rushing that person to the ER with hazard lights blazing as your loved one hangs on for dear life. You're still being half mindful of traffic laws but ultimately it's life or death and you're in a hurry. Hopefully Officer "by the book" Powell doesn't happen to be sitting somewhere between point A and point B for you... If so, welcome to the You're ****ed show.

Save the drama man. To use such an extreme and rare example to prove some point just doesn't cut it and it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. In fairness, no one can say it won't happen and if it has, it's probably extremely rare. But I'll bet you the absolute overwhelming and extreme majority of police officers in those situations will say "follow me" and radio ahead to the hospital to have emergency room staff on stand-by.

But understand that I totally agree that Powell miserably failed when he had enough of the facts at hand to make a rational decision. To me, that should have taken him only a minute or so with a cooperative and compliant Moats. Everyone here, including Powell himself, knows that Powell screwed up. I think that most people here disagree on when that time was. Some people feel that Powell should have known the minute Moats had his four ways on and others believe that Powell should have known when Moats pulled into the hospital lot. I disagree with those people. I just think that Moats could have handled the situation a bit differently that might have led to an earlier resolution once he arrived at the hospital.
 

Dodger12

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Mansta54;2708842 said:
:clap2: Thank goodness!!!!:rolleyes:

Two "claps" in one thread without an ounce of contribution or opinion.....lame.....very lame....:rolleyes:
 

Dodger12

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Avery;2708256 said:
I agree with most of what you stated, but slowing for a red light after being waved through by the opposing driver with your hazards on and pulling up in a hospital's emergency room parking does not seem to be the workings of an irrational person nor dictates a 13 minute lecture. It's judgment pure and simple.

Riddle me this: it's 1am at night and you're rushing your wife to the hospital - do you drive the speed limit and no more, stop for every red light and be sure to signal three seconds before each turn? These are the rules, but should there not be instances where these guidelines can be stretched due to extraordinary circumstances?

Avery, I completely agree. As i stated earlier, Powell had a job to do and that was to verify Moats' story and do a quick check on the tag. That could have been done much earlier and with a hell of allot more compassion and discretion. But Moats didn't help his cause trying to yell over the officer and it only caused more confusion. Just my opinion.
 

dogunwo

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Dodger12;2708179 said:
What evidence is that? One person with some public staure and the wife of another being treated like the average citizen so now this becomes a big deal?

I haven't heard one person speak of personal accountablity in either of these threads. No doubt this guy appears to be over the top and extreme. But there's a simple lesson here as well; carry your insurance card, don't run a red light, don't make an illegal U-Turn, and have your vehicle properly registered and display the same. I'll bet most Americans do that, as well as most people on this board. If I'm in some way supposed to fell sorry for some people not following very simple rules, the same rules that a majority of people follow, it's just not happening.
two minorities. plus, i never said he wasn't justified for pulling them over, but a minor violation and a badge dont give you the right to be an *** and an idiot. I have never heard of anyone being taken to jail for minor traffic violation. Never.
 

trueblue1687

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dogunwo;2707325 said:
An unnecessary attack at people you know nothing about. Grow the heck up. Its unfortunate you felt like that was a mature thing to say.

...And what sir, do you know about either? Attorneys reputations...according to national polling, ranks near the top (second to used car salesmen) in the most ditrusted, dishonest professions. Vince Young is a mental protozoa. Now, go play and if you're real nice you can have a snack later!:laugh1:
 

trueblue1687

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Hostile;2708779 said:
In other words, I was right. Thanks.

Ok, let me see if this is any clearer since you don't see the point: in a previous post you wrote (part of the post):

Here's a real big clue that the Officer screwed up here.

His Department and Chief are NOT backing him up.


That is a big time red flag fact that a lot of people seem to be ignoring. If you think for one minute that Police Officers and Departments are not fiercely loyal then you are sadly mistaken.

Now, I am saying that his chief and department NOT backing him has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with whether he screwed up or not. So, NO...you aren't right. Perhaps you should heed your advice and READ my post and think about what it said. Police Departments are OVERLY sensitive to public criticism. The Chief looks out for the Chief first, department second (because really they are viewed as almost the same entity). It is called self preservation. So, the fact that his Department isn't backing him isn't a "real big clue that he screwed up"....it's a clue they are protecting reputation since the officers is already trashed. A "real big clue" would be that he is unemployed...that's what happens when cops screw up.
 

Hostile

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trueblue1687;2709085 said:
Ok, let me see if this is any clearer since you don't see the point: in a previous post you wrote (part of the post):

Here's a real big clue that the Officer screwed up here.

His Department and Chief are NOT backing him up.


That is a big time red flag fact that a lot of people seem to be ignoring. If you think for one minute that Police Officers and Departments are not fiercely loyal then you are sadly mistaken.

Now, I am saying that his chief and department NOT backing him has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with whether he screwed up or not. So, NO...you aren't right. Perhaps you should heed your advice and READ my post and think about what it said. Police Departments are OVERLY sensitive to public criticism. The Chief looks out for the Chief first, department second (because really they are viewed as almost the same entity). It is called self preservation. So, the fact that his Department isn't backing him isn't a "real big clue that he screwed up"....it's a clue they are protecting reputation since the officers is already trashed. A "real big clue" would be that he is unemployed...that's what happens when cops screw up.
So you are saying if he was right they would still not back him up?

Naw. Not buying it.
 

Apollo Creed

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lmao at this thread.

I guess its just deeply rooted in our nature to divide on a subject. Then *****, complain, debate, etc - until the subject grows tired or we're given more fodder to 'debate' over.

Between 20 pages, not too many different things have been said on both sides.

With all that said - the guy is still a total *******, should be fired, and the video displays that he is not capable of making rational decisions and showing proper disgretion in terms of how you 'police' the community.

Had that been your mother in law, and your wife being held up by one of the biggest ***** I've ever seen or heard - you would be absolutely furious. Furious. And to say otherwise would be a flat out lie. By no means was he 'doing his job'.

This thread shouldn't be in the daily zone, its wasting valuable energy we should be spending on other trivial, yet polarizing threads. But its also nice to see that some people are just deluded across the board on things.
 

dogunwo

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trueblue1687;2709081 said:
...And what sir, do you know about either? Attorneys reputations...according to national polling, ranks near the top (second to used car salesmen) in the most ditrusted, dishonest professions. Vince Young is a mental protozoa. Now, go play and if you're real nice you can have a snack later!:laugh1:
thanks, you just validated everything I thought, and continue to embarrass yourself.
 

Dodger12

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Hostile;2709103 said:
So you are saying if he was right they would still not back him up?

Naw. Not buying it.

Unfortuantely, it happens more often then you think. It's all too common for the chief, a political appointee, to buckle under public pressure and media sensasionalism.
 

jobberone

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Apollo Creed;2709112 said:
lmao at this thread.

I guess its just deeply rooted in our nature to divide on a subject. Then *****, complain, debate, etc - until the subject grows tired or we're given more fodder to 'debate' over.

Between 20 pages, not too many different things have been said on both sides.

With all that said - the guy is still a total *******, should be fired, and the video displays that he is not capable of making rational decisions and showing proper disgretion in terms of how you 'police' the community.

Had that been your mother in law, and your wife being held up by one of the biggest ***** I've ever seen or heard - you would be absolutely furious. Furious. And to say otherwise would be a flat out lie. By no means was he 'doing his job'.

This thread shouldn't be in the daily zone, its wasting valuable energy we should be spending on other trivial, yet polarizing threads. But its also nice to see that some people are just deluded across the board on things.

I don't think the fact he was a ******* is debatable. What's being debated is should he be fired for it right now. And the very obvious answer is NO. Not yet. There has to be an internal investigation into the matter. It may include a mental health evalutation.

No one of concience is saying he didn't screw the pooch.
 

anava

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Thomas' wife detained by Moats' cop

Comment Email Print Share ESPN.com news services

Another allegation has surfaced against the officer who prevented Houston Texans running back Ryan Moats from entering a hospital to see his dying mother-in-law last week.

The Dallas Morning News reports that Maritza Thomas, wife of former Cowboys linebacker Zach Thomas, was handcuffed and spent approximately three hours in jail after Dallas officer Robert Powell pulled her over for an illegal U-turn in July 2008.

"This in no way compares to what happened to Ryan Moats and his family," Thomas told The Morning News. "But we wanted to tell our story, not knowing how many others have been affected by Officer Powell. We know the vast majority of the Dallas police force are good and professional people, but this guy just seems excessive."

Four of the five tickets issued against Maritza Thomas were later dropped including failure to show proof of insurance, running a red light, improper address on driver's license and a registration sticker was not on the windshield. She accepted deferred adjudication for the illegal U-turn charge, and her record will be cleared next month.

"This situation never should've happened," Maritza Thomas' attorney, Brody Shanklin told The Morning News. "Unless extraordinary circumstances exist, no person should be arrested for a Class C citation. In this case, it was an example of Officer Powell being overzealous and exerting his authority in a manner that he never should have."

Bob Gorsky, Powell's attorney, defended his client's actions.

"I do understand that an arrest on multiple traffic charges happens often and is absolutely proper under these circumstances," Gorsky told The Morning News. "Often, when there are multiple charges, an arrest made and bond posted, some of the charges from a single event are later dropped."

Powell pulled over Moats for running a red light on his way to the hospital to see his dying mother-in-law. Powell detained Moats for 13 minutes, in which time his mother-in-law died. Powell issued an apology on Friday.

A Dallas police spokesman declined to comment but said the department would investigate any complaint filed against Powell, who is on administrative leave.
---------------

Zach Thomas: Same Dallas officer mistreated my wife

NFL linebacker says line was crossed in 2008 traffic stop; Powell's attorney sees no improper actions


11:43 PM CDT on Saturday, March 28, 2009
By TODD ARCHER / The Dallas Morning News
tarcher@***BANNED-URL***

Maritza Thomas, the wife of NFL linebacker Zach Thomas, saw a familiar face as she watched the video of Officer Robert Powell detaining Houston Texans running back Ryan Moats as he and his family rushed to a hospital to see a dying loved one. That face was Powell's.

On July 27, 2008, while her husband was at training camp with the Cowboys in Oxnard, Calif., Maritza Thomas was pulled over by Powell for an illegal U-turn near NorthPark Center.

Maritza Thomas was issued five tickets by Powell, four of which were later dismissed. Thomas was handcuffed, placed in the back of a police cruiser, spent about three hours in the Dallas County Jail and was threatened with the possibility of spending the night behind bars.

"This in no way compares to what happened to Ryan Moats and his family," said Zach Thomas, who played for the Cowboys last season and is now a free agent. "But we wanted to tell our story, not knowing how many others have been affected by Officer Powell. We know the vast majority of the Dallas police force are good and professional people, but this guy just seems excessive."

The charges that were dropped included: failure to show proof of insurance, running a red light, improper address on driver's license and a registration sticker was not on the windshield. She accepted deferred adjudication for the illegal U-turn charge, and her record will be cleared next month.

In total, Maritza Thomas, who is Hispanic, was detained roughly five hours.

"This situation never should've happened," said Maritza Thomas' attorney, Brody Shanklin. "Unless extraordinary circumstances exist, no person should be arrested for a Class C citation. In this case, it was an example of Officer Powell being overzealous and exerting his authority in a manner that he never should have."

Bob Gorsky, Powell's attorney, questioned the timing of Thomas' allegations, saying she had not complained about her arrest until the Moats incident became public.

"After her arrest, she may have mentioned that her husband was a football player, but that played no role in her arrest or the disposition of the case," Gorsky said.

"I do understand that an arrest on multiple traffic charges happens often and is absolutely proper under these circumstances," Gorsky said. "Often, when there are multiple charges, an arrest made and bond posted, some of the charges from a single event are later dropped."

According to Maritza Thomas, a pharmacist with no prior criminal record, Powell would not accept the explanation of where the proper paperwork was before she was taken to jail. Her mother, Teresa Lozano, who was making her first trip to Dallas and speaks little English, was forced to ride with the tow truck driver when the car was impounded. She later posted bail for her daughter's release.

"My mom was begging for him to let her go to the apartment that was five minutes away to get the paperwork," Maritza Thomas said. "He unbuckled his holster, and she got scared."

The Thomases said Powell was dismissive, but they did not allege that he used abusive language. There is no dash-cam video available of the incident, but the police report lists the five citations and confirms that Thomas was taken to jail.

At the time, the Thomases considered filing a complaint against Powell but declined, "because we didn't want to cause a stir," said her husband, Zach Thomas, believing it "was maybe a guy having a bad day." However, they plan to file one now.

[an error occurred while processing this directive]
Complaints can be made more than 60 days following an incident in person or in writing with the internal affairs department. Maritza Thomas said she would fax a letter this week. The Thomases said they are not seeking money.

Sr. Cpl. Kevin Janse, a Dallas police spokesman, declined to comment on Thomas' allegation.

However, he said police would investigate all complaints submitted to the department about Powell.

"If she feels Officer Powell did something wrong, we'll investigate it," Janse said. "We are not going to go back and track everything this officer has done," he said. "If people come to us with concerns, we'll look into it."

The department is investigating Powell's actions on the night of the Moats traffic stop, as well as any other questionable encounters involving the officer, Janse said.

Maritza Thomas said, "I hope that by telling my story that it will help prevent situations like this from happening in the future."

Powell issued an apology Friday for his actions in which Moats and his grandfather-in-law were unable to see Jonetta Collinsworth before she succumbed to breast cancer this month. Powell has been put on paid leave.

With the grim news of Collinsworth's health, Moats, his wife, Tamishia, and her grandfather rushed to Baylor Regional Medical Center at Plano, rolling through a red light that prompted Powell to turn on his lights.

Outside the emergency room, Powell detained Moats for 13 minutes, and Collinsworth died before everybody could say goodbye.
 

trueblue1687

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Hostile;2709103 said:
So you are saying if he was right they would still not back him up?

Naw. Not buying it.

Not sure why this isn't getting through, but....if he's in the right, why would anyone need to say anything? I'm just saying that the departments actions don't say anything about innocence or guilt. If the officer did something PROCEDURALLY wrong, he would be fired. Period. PDs (chiefs and especially Sheriff's...they're elected and have to be re-elected) regularly give public scoldings when something unpopular happens with an officer's conduct. like I said, the officer could have handled the situation better, that's not a point of contention with me...just debating your point on the departments actions meaning anything one way or another. The chief is out to protect his reputation...the officer is usually on his own, yet may be "encouraged" to take a particular line for damage control (public apology). I can assure you I know this first hand and besides, it's human nature to protect yourself from ridicule. That's what the department's stance says...reputation damage control
 

iceberg

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the bottom line.

he's an officer of the law and should be able to recognize potential crisis situations.

like someone running a red light on their way to a nearby hospital.

the way powell acted if moats wife were pregnant he'd still have kept them there till she gave birth in the parking lot.

as soon as he said "my wifes mother is dying right NOW" all process should be off and an exception made to the rule.

moats didn't go flying through the intersection - he waited till it was clear.

powell never should have put process in front of people.
 

Bleu Star

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Wow. Are we still talking about this idiot? He should be fired post haste. For the sake of those he serves and "protects"... Get that ingrate outta there. As another poster so craftily noted, he slipped through the ******* filter.
 

JonJon

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ESPN is reporting that Powell has resigned from duties as police officer following the Moats incident.
 

JonJon

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http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Powell-Resigns-From-Dallas-Police-Department.html


By FRANK HEINZ


The announcement was made just before noon Wednesday and Powell released the following statement:
"With a heavy heart and great sadness, I resigned from the Dallas Police Department this morning. I made this decision in the hope that my resignation will allow the Dallas Police Department, my fellow officers, and the citizens of Dallas to better reflect on this experience, learn from the mistakes made, and move forward.
I still hope to speak with the Moats family to personally express my deep regret, sympathy, and to apologize for my poor judgment and unprofessional conduct.
I also want to apologize to my fellow officers. I have sincere respect and admiration for the men and women of the Dallas Police Department and the work they perform daily, and I wish them well."
Powell has been under intense criticism after he delayed Houston Texans running back Ryan Moats and his family from entering a hospital where Moats' mother-in-law was dying.
Moats was stopped for running a red light, but Powell lectured and delayed the man from entering the hospital for more than 15 minutes -- even after hospital personnel validated Moats' claims.
Moats' mother-in-law passed before he was able to visit with her. Despite that, Moats accepted Powell's apology on Monday morning.
Powell's actions "embarrassed" the Dallas Police Department, according to Police Chief David Kunkle, and he should have been terminated, according to Dallas City Councilmember Angela Hunt.
"Powell's behavior indicates a lack of common sense and common decency, and he should not continue to serve on our police force," Hunt wrote in her online blog.
Related Stories

Since the incident with Moats became public last week, former Dallas Cowboys linebacker Zach Thomas stepped forward and said Powell mistreated and arrested his wife after she made an illegal U-Turn last July.
Powell had been placed on paid leave pending the results of an internal police investigation.
 
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