ESPN - Turner to be named HC of Chargers

[iceberg]

You stated, "The Chargers interviewed virtually the exact same candidates Jerry did. He didn't know what he was doing. They do."

I just saw a poll of Chargers fans where it's about 5-1 opposed to Norv's hiring. It doesn't look like they think the Chargers know what they are doing.

So if we aren't basing it on the fans then whose opinion are we using to state Jerry doesn't know what he's doing but they do?

isn't this the team with the GM you said was "hands down" better than jones?

not going anywhere with this - just wondering if i understood you correctly.

 

[iceberg]

I can live with the "special exception" but reserve the right to throw up a red flag.

"if it would have been any other team, THEN it would be the "window of opportunity"......but it wan't any other team, but I give you credit for at least admiting that it was an exception and not the norm, as some here have tried to defend at length.

I'm not as vocal on the subject as VA, but I can see where he's coming from and can't disagree completely with his point of view. I'll stand firmly in the ant-Jerry the GM camp, as that thought petrifies me to no end. But I'll wait to see where all this goes between the draft, FA period and, of course, the season before I believe he's completely meddling and back to the Jerry of old.

oddly enough - i find your view to be fair - moreso than say VA who's really taking things personal (or so it seems to me). as for throwing out a caution flag - no harm in that at all. tag it, bag it, and let's keep going. but i don't see this on it's own *right now* as a "Meddlesome" move.

could be in the end and hence, no argument from me on the flagging. : )

 

[speedkilz88]

Hos, sadly, you're right. But Jerry has no one to blame but himself for how he is perceived. At the end of the day, Norv is better off in SD without Jerry and we're better off with Phillips.



Even if AJ Smith wanted Cottrell, he still hired the HC first.

He did? You sure about that? Norv sure didn't hire Cottrell, the Chargers just paraded both of them out. Norv was obviously just hired today, it looks pretty obvious AJ had Cottrell already in an agreement before the HC was hired.

And AJ wasn't under another teams deadline to sign the coordinator. What AJ did was exactly what Jerry did, but maybe a little worse because he wasn't under a deadline.

 

[VA Cowboy]

So, what you're saying is I need to heed the majority of the Chargers fans opinions?

The majority of Cowboys fans were ecstatic about the hiring of Bill Parcells.

I'm not trying to dig at a sore spot. I just don't see where Jerry has flubbed up anything yet.

You don't have to heed the Chargers fans opinions. The point is just that it isn't a Jerry can't win situation while other teams get a free pass if they do the same thing. If Jerry had hired Norv most Cowboys fans wouldn't have liked it. The same is now the case with Charger fans opinion of them hiring Norv.

As for Jerry, I don't know if he's flubbed anything yet or not. My only contention is that he's more hands-on now. To what extent or the impact of it, I don't know.

 

[VA Cowboy]

isn't this the team with the GM you said was "hands down" better than jones?

not going anywhere with this - just wondering if i understood you correctly.

His drafts have been much better, but his decisions the last month really sheds new light on him.

 

[VA Cowboy]

oddly enough - i find your view to be fair - moreso than say VA who's really taking things personal (or so it seems to me).

...trust me, I'm not...

 

[VA Cowboy]

He did? You sure about that? Norv sure didn't hire Cottrell, the Chargers just paraded both of them out. Norv was obviously just hired today, it looks pretty obvious AJ had Cottrell already in an agreement before the HC was hired.

And AJ wasn't under another teams deadline to sign the coordinator. What AJ did was exactly what Jerry did, but maybe a little worse because he wasn't under a deadline.

I agree. Not a good move

 

[Dodger12]

oddly enough - i find your view to be fair - moreso than say VA who's really taking things personal (or so it seems to me). as for throwing out a caution flag - no harm in that at all. tag it, bag it, and let's keep going. but i don't see this on it's own *right now* as a "Meddlesome" move.

could be in the end and hence, no argument from me on the flagging. : )

You know, I can see the extreme passion on both sides. I give VA allot of credit because he was a regular on another board where I posted before everyone jumped ship to CZ. I recall the days when VA wore the rose colored glasses....yes, I'm bringing out his softer side. .......he does have one.

But the Campo years totally eroded any good will he had for Jerry. It was like VA was screaming in the dark and no one would listen until it all fell apart and we were a shell of a team and the laughing stock of the NFL. That's pretty hard to deal with when you're living in Commanders or Eagles territory (which I do as well).

 

[Hostile]

You don't have to heed the Chargers fans opinions. The point is just that it isn't a Jerry can't win situation while other teams get a free pass if they do the same thing. If Jerry had hired Norv most Cowboys fans wouldn't have liked it. The same is now the case with Charger fans opinion of them hiring Norv.

Okay, I think I gotcha now.

As for Jerry, I don't know if he's flubbed anything yet or not. My only contention is that he's more hands-on now. To what extent or the impact of it, I don't know.

I'm not sure this is a bad thing. I'm certainly willing to see evidence once the ship is sailing, but from where I sit right now he conducted the most thorough HC search of any team and apparently stole the guy a 14-2 team would have chosen if they had fired their HC immediately.

The heat on Jerry will always be intense and as stated that is his fault. I think he's done as much good as bad, probably more.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Okay, I think I gotcha now.

I'm not sure this is a bad thing. I'm certainly willing to see evidence once the ship is sailing, but from where I sit right now he conducted the most thorough HC search of any team and apparently stole the guy a 14-2 team would have chosen if they had fired their HC immediately.

The heat on Jerry will always be intense and as stated that is his fault. I think he's done as much good as bad, probably more.

All I have to go by is the past when he was extremely hands on.
Others have taken major exception just to the notion that he is more hands-on, as if I'm automatically saying it will fail. I've never stated that, but I am apprehensive about it.

As for Wade, I liked him better than the majority of the candidates that were out there this year. We did as well as we could imo under the circumstances.

As for the rest, we will find out more come the draft and over the course of the next year or so.

 

[iceberg]

...trust me, I'm not...

fair enough on the last few statements. we'll see where things go from here.

 

[The Realist]

We may actually agree on something.

"I'll do an A+ job of not undermining the head coach".

Maybe Jerry actually learned something over the last 4 years.

 

[Hostile]

All I have to go by is the past when he was extremely hands on.
Others have taken major exception just to the notion that he is more hands-on, as if I'm automatically saying it will fail. I've never stated that, but I am apprehensive about it.

As for Wade, I liked him better than the majority of the candidates that were out there this year. We did as well as we could imo under the circumstances.

As for the rest, we will find out more come the draft and over the course of the next year or so.

I don't know how you can go by this though.

Maybe it's just me, but I'll hang my hat on Norv and Wade over where he went with Barry, Chan and Dave out of nowhere.

I am always apprehensive about every move to some degree.

There is no such thing as a no doubt about it home run move.

 

[Dodger12]

He did? You sure about that? Norv sure didn't hire Cottrell, the Chargers just paraded both of them out. Norv was obviously just hired today, it looks pretty obvious AJ had Cottrell already in an agreement before the HC was hired.

And AJ wasn't under another teams deadline to sign the coordinator. What AJ did was exactly what Jerry did, but maybe a little worse because he wasn't under a deadline.

I can only go by what is posted and reported. One article posted in the CZ has it reported that Norv wanted and broght in Cottrell. I don't know if that's true or not. What is the case is that Norv wasn't hired two weeks after Cotrell. That's my point.

 

[zrinkill]

Here's the bottom line. Jerry cannot win. The deck is stacked.

The Chargers interviewed virtually the exact same candidates Jerry did. He didn't know what he was doing. They do.

Jerry hired Garrett before he hired the Head Coach. He's meddling. Word is AJ Smith wanted Ted Cottrell as DC, it's evidence he knows talent.

If Marty had been fired before we hired Wade, he would be their Head Coach and it would be a good hire. Wade is just Jerry's new puppet here as he returns to his old ways.

If Jerry had hired Norv, he would have been Jerry's new puppet and the whole interview process was a sham. Norv will transform Phillip Rivers into a gem at QB and be great for LT.

If The Chargers win it all, and they could with that team, Jerry should have hired Norv.

If the Cowboys win it all it will be because of the team Parcells built.

If the Chargers defense struggles, it will be because Norv doesn't know enough about defense, it will have nothing to do with Wade being gone. If their offense struggles it will be proof that Jerry was looking at horrible coaching candidates.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Hostile]

I can only go by what is posted and reported. One article posted in the CZ has it reported that Norv wanted and broght in Cottrell. I don't know if that's true or not. What is the case is that Norv wasn't hired two weeks after Cotrell. That's my point.

The reports I've seen say Smith wanted Cottrell.

If you remember Norv's reported guy for here was Rivera.

Perhaps he learned from the interview with Jerry that when a team wants to stick with a scheme not to push it? Not saying that's it, but all signs are Cottrell is AJ Smith's hire.

 

[Dodger12]

I agree. I'm sure we all wanted the Super Bowl. But taking a three-time 5-11 team to 3 winning seasons in 4 years was a vast improvement.
I do think he took us about as far as he could and he didn't have the energy to put in the work required to get us over the hump.

What's telling is Jerry's own statements that make it sound like he's vindicated because BP didn't win it all. We did it Jerry's total hands-on approach with Switzer, Gailey and Campo. It preceded to get worse and worse with each one as the Super Bowl talent who was here under Jimmy faded, retired or left through FA.

Finally JJ relented and brought in BP and backed off a great deal allowing BP to have enormous control. But despite us finally moving in the right direction, that is deemed a failure because we didn't win it all. Now, instead of continuing that path with someone else, that method is apparently "one and done".

I don't know if Jerry is going to revert back fully to his ways of the past, but it seems clear he is going to be much more hands on now than the last 4 years. Kind of unreal he would continue a failed method three straight times - yet apparently give up on a method that has us moving in the right direction after only one attempt at it.

VA, I completely agree. Ultimately, BP's biggest failure may not be in the win lost colomn, but in his failure to vaidate his appraoch to Jerry.

What I find kind of ironic is this whole "he's a player's coach" mentality. Those were the same words used to describe Switzer/Campo and how it would help the team after years under Jimmy's authoritative approach. Of course, when that went down the toilet, we (the fans) demanded a strict disciplinarian (BP). We didn't win the SB, but I can argue that we're competitive again and a top 10 team with a shot at the playoffs and SB. I'll take that any day. Now we're back to the looser, easy going atmosphere in the hope that the players will respond and all of our warts will be cured. How quickly we forget.......

 

[Dodger12]

The reports I've seen say Smith wanted Cottrell.

If you remember Norv's reported guy for here was Rivera.

Perhaps he learned from the interview with Jerry that when a team wants to stick with a scheme not to push it? Not saying that's it, but all signs are Cottrell is AJ Smith's hire.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81877

"FOXSports.com has learned that the Chargers are talking to Norv Turner as if they are looking to hire him as their head coach. Sources contend that Turner is leaning toward hiring Ted Cottrell, a long-time defensive NFL coach, to run the Chargers defense. Cottrell worked in the league office this past season but is one of the best minds in the league in running a 3-4 scheme."

 

[The Realist]

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81877

"FOXSports.com has learned that the Chargers are talking to Norv Turner as if they are looking to hire him as their head coach. Sources contend that Turner is leaning toward hiring Ted Cottrell, a long-time defensive NFL coach, to run the Chargers defense. Cottrell worked in the league office this past season but is one of the best minds in the league in running a 3-4 scheme."

Former Buffalo Bills defensive coordinator Ted Cottrell has been mentioned as a candidate, but it is more likely he would be the Chargers' next defensive coordinator. It is Cottrell that General Manager A.J. Smith was pushing to replace Wade Phillips on Monday even as Schottenheimer was asserting his desire to interview his brother, Kurt.

Link

In this case Norv is no dummy.

He knows he has zero chance of getting a 4-3 DC like Rivera into the DC role in SD.

 

[Dodger12]

Former Buffalo Bills defensive coordinator Ted Cottrell has been mentioned as a candidate, but it is more likely he would be the Chargers' next defensive coordinator. It is Cottrell that General Manager A.J. Smith was pushing to replace Wade Phillips on Monday even as Schottenheimer was asserting his desire to interview his brother, Kurt.

Link

In this case Norv is no dummy.

He knows he has zero chance of getting a 4-3 DC like Rivera into the DC role in SD.

Reality, I get it...I really do. Again, Cottrell wasn't hired 2 weeks prior to the HC and I also understand that Jones had a small window to work with regarding JG. I guess you can't see the difference but I don't expect you too.

Also, in your article, you'll find this: "Team President Dean Spanos and Smith already have decided they will not allow assistants to leave now but instead will leave it up to the new head coach whom he wants to retain. All the assistants are under contract through next season."

There's a novel concept.......