ESPN - Turner to be named HC of Chargers

[iceberg]

Here's the bottom line. Jerry cannot win. The deck is stacked.

The Chargers interviewed virtually the exact same candidates Jerry did. He didn't know what he was doing. They do.

Jerry hired Garrett before he hired the Head Coach. He's meddling. Word is AJ Smith wanted Ted Cottrell as DC, it's evidence he knows talent.

If Marty had been fired before we hired Wade, he would be their Head Coach and it would be a good hire. Wade is just Jerry's new puppet here as he returns to his old ways.

If Jerry had hired Norv, he would have been Jerry's new puppet and the whole interview process was a sham. Norv will transform Phillip Rivers into a gem at QB and be great for LT.

If The Chargers win it all, and they could with that team, Jerry should have hired Norv.

If the Cowboys win it all it will be because of the team Parcells built.

If the Chargers defense struggles, it will be because Norv doesn't know enough about defense, it will have nothing to do with Wade being gone. If their offense struggles it will be proof that Jerry was looking at horrible coaching candidates.

Did I miss anything?

covered most of it. : ) in the end the anti-jerry crowd is not w/o reason for their concerns on jones, i just can't rail ANYONE 100% and never give him "redemption time" to show if they can/have learned how to do better and not illustrate the things that were problematic in the past.

jones hiring parcells and for 4 years more or less letting parcells run the show. he did a lot to wipe the slate clean and start over again on the "baffoon" meter. then you'll find some who simply refuse to reset and take any opportunity to continue the tirade.

earned, yes. but to me, so was the reset/break with how he let parcells run the show. we don't know for sure if the old jones is going to come back. i would say yes to some degree cause the "hands off" didn't get him a whole hell of a lot either and he spent a LOT more money for essentially the same end-results we've already had.

if parcells would have taken us to the bowl, not even winning it, i think jones would have the "hands off" behavior reinforced. from here i see him putting some hands back in and now looking for a better mix than he's had previously. with or without parcells.

sometimes it will be meddling - yes. but sometimes it could even be the right move and/or what he *should* be doing as GM - even if you don't like him as a GM he's still got to do it.

some will give him room to move, some simply damn every move.

that's just how it goes, i suppose.

 

[CATCH17]

covered most of it. : ) in the end the anti-jerry crowd is not w/o reason for their concerns on jones, i just can't rail ANYONE 100% and never give him "redemption time" to show if they can/have learned how to do better and not illustrate the things that were problematic in the past.

jones hiring parcells and for 4 years more or less letting parcells run the show. he did a lot to wipe the slate clean and start over again on the "baffoon" meter. then you'll find some who simply refuse to reset and take any opportunity to continue the tirade.

earned, yes. but to me, so was the reset/break with how he let parcells run the show. we don't know for sure if the old jones is going to come back. i would say yes to some degree cause the "hands off" didn't get him a whole hell of a lot either and he spent a LOT more money for essentially the same end-results we've already had.

if parcells would have taken us to the bowl, not even winning it, i think jones would have the "hands off" behavior reinforced. from here i see him putting some hands back in and now looking for a better mix than he's had previously. with or without parcells.

sometimes it will be meddling - yes. but sometimes it could even be the right move and/or what he *should* be doing as GM - even if you don't like him as a GM he's still got to do it.

some will give him room to move, some simply damn every move.

that's just how it goes, i suppose.

I think Jerry understands how screwed up it was when Parcells got here.

Bill said this was his hardest job by far here in Dallas. Thats saying something because every team he took over before was bad and by the complete roster overhaul from top to bottom it was obvious the talent here was next to nothing.

We may have been winning 5 games a year but we were truly one of the least talented teams in the league.

I think Jerry understands that now and he is a better football man now because of Bill Parcells.

Bill straightened everything out for us and he layed a solid foundation not only for the players but for the front office.

Its up to Jerry not to screw it up.

 

[Hostile]

covered most of it. : ) in the end the anti-jerry crowd is not w/o reason for their concerns on jones, i just can't rail ANYONE 100% and never give him "redemption time" to show if they can/have learned how to do better and not illustrate the things that were problematic in the past.

I agree with that in bold 100% but the next line is just as true.

Jerry may not be the best GM ever, but he does have 3 trophies. Many guys who are better GMs can't claim that. Give the man his due, whether you think that was 100% Jimmy or not, others can't replicate it.

His main fault is the last 11 years have not lived up to even his expectations. He realized this and did what we as fans demanded. I wish it had worked out, but Parcells' heart didn't appear to be in it.

Jerry's heart still is. For that I am grateful beyond measure. I live in Arizona, I know how bad it sucks to have a Bidwell as owner. Jerry's not perfect by any wild stretch, but I'll take him over any other owner out there.

 

[iceberg]

I agree with that in bold 100% but the next line is just as true.

Jerry may not be the best GM ever, but he does have 3 trophies. Many guys who are better GMs can't claim that. Give the man his due, whether you think that was 100% Jimmy or not, others can't replicate it.

His main fault is the last 11 years have not lived up to even his expectations. He realized this and did what we as fans demanded. I wish it had worked out, but Parcells' heart didn't appear to be in it.

Jerry's heart still is. For that I am grateful beyond measure. I live in Arizona, I know how bad it sucks to have a Bidwell as owner. Jerry's not perfect by any wild stretch, but I'll take him over any other owner out there.

well, i like what you and catch are saying in regard to jones knowing it was screwed up and hopefully not winning doesn't mean instant "old jones".

none of us wants that.

in 6 years he screwed up pretty bad and parcells took 4 to at least get us going again. good foundation but i don't think it was in parcells to do what it would take - 20 hour days, endless dedication, and so forth. that's what it takes these days and that's why you're seeing the younger and more hungry coaches make some headway. it can't totally replace experience but if they're smart, the utilize that along the way as well as they gain it.

winning would have reinforced the 'Hands off' approach but i'll agree with catch here - not winning doesn't mean it still hasn't been. we'll have to give it time to see.

 

[smarta5150]

ESPN: Norv Named HC

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2771126

 

[Hoofbite]

lol is merriman the only player that the chargers have drafted right behind dallas? ware will always be better then merriman end of story. but castillo over spears? vincent jackson over kevin burnett? carpenter over cromartie(this one might actually work out for dallas), fasano over mcneil?

so i think that should quiet you down for a little bit

So now where going to include every draft pick? Come on now, you know damed well that the only real debate about Chargers Vs. Cowboys in draft picks is Merriman Vs. Ware. But, I guess if you want to include every draft pick to just have a small piece of dirt to stand on......I suppose I can entertain the idea for a moment.

Just for ****s sake. Dallas didn't take Fasano over McNeil. McNeil was gone when Dallas picked.

And didn't Castillo test positive for something at the Combine? Didn't he juice just so he could put up good numbers? Not a big shocker that a team would stay away from a guy who tests positive before getting into the league.

And you've said that Ware is better then Merriman.....plus a few of these I found

Newman Vs. Sammy Davis

Witten Vs. Courtney VanBuren

Brady James Vs. Matt Wilhelm


Maybe Dallas hasn't done so bad in comparison after all, huh? Im sure you will find something to hang on to and try to argue.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Here's the bottom line. Jerry cannot win. The deck is stacked.

The Chargers interviewed virtually the exact same candidates Jerry did. He didn't know what he was doing. They do.

I think alot more Charger fans and fans in general are opposed to the Norv hire. It's not like people think it'd just be bad for Jerry to hire him. Most think SD made a mistake too.

 

[VA Cowboy]

I think Jerry understands that now and he is a better football man now because of Bill Parcells.

Bill straightened everything out for us and he layed a solid foundation not only for the players but for the front office.

Its up to Jerry not to screw it up.

I totally agree. The foundation is there. Now we get to see if we build on it or regress. Only time will tell. I hope Ireland is the real deal and Jerry makes better decisions this time.

 

[Dodger12]

Here's the bottom line. Jerry cannot win. The deck is stacked.

The Chargers interviewed virtually the exact same candidates Jerry did. He didn't know what he was doing. They do.

Jerry hired Garrett before he hired the Head Coach. He's meddling. Word is AJ Smith wanted Ted Cottrell as DC, it's evidence he knows talent.

If Marty had been fired before we hired Wade, he would be their Head Coach and it would be a good hire. Wade is just Jerry's new puppet here as he returns to his old ways.

If Jerry had hired Norv, he would have been Jerry's new puppet and the whole interview process was a sham. Norv will transform Phillip Rivers into a gem at QB and be great for LT.

If The Chargers win it all, and they could with that team, Jerry should have hired Norv.

If the Cowboys win it all it will be because of the team Parcells built.

If the Chargers defense struggles, it will be because Norv doesn't know enough about defense, it will have nothing to do with Wade being gone. If their offense struggles it will be proof that Jerry was looking at horrible coaching candidates.

Did I miss anything?

Hos, sadly, you're right. But Jerry has no one to blame but himself for how he is perceived. At the end of the day, Norv is better off in SD without Jerry and we're better off with Phillips.

Jerry hired Garrett before he hired the Head Coach. He's meddling. Word is AJ Smith wanted Ted Cottrell as DC, it's evidence he knows talent.

Even if AJ Smith wanted Cottrell, he still hired the HC first.

 

[The Realist]

Hos, sadly, you're right. But Jerry has no one to blame but himself for how he is perceived. At the end of the day, Norv is better off in SD without Jerry and we're better off with Phillips.



Even if AJ Smith wanted Cottrell, he still hired the HC first.

Smith said right after Schotty was fired that the D was staying the same so that would be meddling by dicatating what scheme the new HC had to run.

Kinda narrows the DC canidate list down a little.

 

[iceberg]

Even if AJ Smith wanted Cottrell, he still hired the HC first.

so you play the appearance game doesn't change the intent/driving force in the end.

so few will note garrett being a special exception. no, *must* be an example of bad jones, not a very short window of opportunity.

if it would have been any other team, THEN it would be the "window of opportunity".

while jones may bring some of this on himself, *we the people* can be smarter than that. it's not too difficult i wouldn't think.

 

[Hostile]

I think alot more Charger fans and fans in general are opposed to the Norv hire. It's not like people think it'd just be bad for Jerry to hire him. Most think SD made a mistake too.

I guarantee you the following are 100% true.

There are Cardinals fans who love the hiring of Whisenhunt. And some who that hate it.

There are Falcons fans who love the hiring of Petrino. And some who hate it.

There are Steelers fans who love the hiring of Tomlin. And some who hate it.

There are Raiders fans who love the hiring of Kiffen. And some who hate it.

There are Dolphins fans who love the hiring of Cameron. And some who hate it.

There are Chargers fans who live the hiring of Turner. And some who hate it.




I promise you this is true. Every word of it. Justifying anything based on the feelings of fans of other teams is pointless. Why should I care about the Chargers fans who are unhappy more than those who are okay with it?

 

[Hostile]

Hos, sadly, you're right. But Jerry has no one to blame but himself for how he is perceived. At the end of the day, Norv is better off in SD without Jerry and we're better off with Phillips.

I do agree with this.

Even if AJ Smith wanted Cottrell, he still hired the HC first.

He did not have a Miami Dolphins imposing a deadline for him.

 

[Dodger12]

earned, yes. but to me, so was the reset/break with how he let parcells run the show. we don't know for sure if the old jones is going to come back. i would say yes to some degree cause the "hands off" didn't get him a whole hell of a lot either and he spent a LOT more money for essentially the same end-results we've already had.

BP rebuilt this team and the whole organization in general, from turning over the roster, to the way they work out, to where they work out, to the scouts and personnel department and how they draft. To say that didn't get Jerry a whole hell of a lot is not being honest to the train wreck that was the Cowboys organization pre-Parcells.

Yes, Jerry spent money and lost on occassion. But I think BP tried to temper Jerry's spending habits and his flair for the FA splash by going with a team, as opposed to a superstar concept. In the end, I just don't think Jerry could contain his instincts on the T.O. signing which will cost him allot more than he's lost on the Vanderjact or Boiman signings that went in the toilet.

 

[VA Cowboy]

I guarantee you the following are 100% true.

There are Cardinals fans who love the hiring of Whisenhunt. And who that hate it.

There are Falcons fans who love the hiring of Petrino. And some who hate it.

There are Steelers fans who love the hiring of Tomlin. And some who hate it.

There are Raiders fans who love the hiring of Kiffen. And some who hate it.

There are Dolphins fans who love the hiring of Cameron. And some who hate it.

There are Chargers fans who live the hiring of Turner. And some who hate it.




I promise you this is true. Every word of it. Justifying anything based on the feelings of fans of other teams is pointless. Why should I care about the Chargers fans who are unhappy more than those who are okay with it?

You stated, "The Chargers interviewed virtually the exact same candidates Jerry did. He didn't know what he was doing. They do."

I just saw a poll of Chargers fans where it's about 5-1 opposed to Norv's hiring. It doesn't look like they think the Chargers know what they are doing.

So if we aren't basing it on the fans then whose opinion are we using to state Jerry doesn't know what he's doing but they do?

 

[Dodger12]

Smith said right after Schotty was fired that the D was staying the same so that would be meddling by dicatating what scheme the new HC had to run.

Kinda narrows the DC canidate list down a little.

Honestly, I don't even know how to respond to that comparison without sounding demeaning. So I'll just call it extremely weak and leave it at that.

 

[VA Cowboy]

BP rebuilt this team and the whole organization in general, from turning over the roster, to the way they work out, to where they work out, to the scouts and personnel department and how they draft. To say that didn't get Jerry a whole hell of a lot is not being honest to the train wreck that was the Cowboys organization pre-Parcells.

I agree. I'm sure we all wanted the Super Bowl. But taking a three-time 5-11 team to 3 winning seasons in 4 years was a vast improvement.
I do think he took us about as far as he could and he didn't have the energy to put in the work required to get us over the hump.

What's telling is Jerry's own statements that make it sound like he's vindicated because BP didn't win it all. We did it Jerry's total hands-on approach with Switzer, Gailey and Campo. It preceded to get worse and worse with each one as the Super Bowl talent who was here under Jimmy faded, retired or left through FA.

Finally JJ relented and brought in BP and backed off a great deal allowing BP to have enormous control. But despite us finally moving in the right direction, that is deemed a failure because we didn't win it all. Now, instead of continuing that path with someone else, that method is apparently "one and done".

I don't know if Jerry is going to revert back fully to his ways of the past, but it seems clear he is going to be much more hands on now than the last 4 years. Kind of unreal he would continue a failed method three straight times - yet apparently give up on a method that has us moving in the right direction after only one attempt at it.

 

[Dodger12]

so you play the appearance game doesn't change the intent/driving force in the end.

so few will note garrett being a special exception. no, *must* be an example of bad jones, not a very short window of opportunity.

if it would have been any other team, THEN it would be the "window of opportunity".

while jones may bring some of this on himself, *we the people* can be smarter than that. it's not too difficult i wouldn't think.

I can live with the "special exception" but reserve the right to throw up a red flag.

"if it would have been any other team, THEN it would be the "window of opportunity"......but it wan't any other team, but I give you credit for at least admiting that it was an exception and not the norm, as some here have tried to defend at length.

I'm not as vocal on the subject as VA, but I can see where he's coming from and can't disagree completely with his point of view. I'll stand firmly in the ant-Jerry the GM camp, as that thought petrifies me to no end. But I'll wait to see where all this goes between the draft, FA period and, of course, the season before I believe he's completely meddling and back to the Jerry of old.

 

[Hostile]

You stated, "The Chargers interviewed virtually the exact same candidates Jerry did. He didn't know what he was doing. They do."

I just saw a poll of Chargers fans where it's about 5-1 opposed to Norv's hiring. It doesn't look like they think the Chargers know what they are doing.

So if we aren't basing it on the fans then whose opinion are we using to state Jerry doesn't know what he's doing but they do?

I said the quote above.

Was I wrong?

Let's make a list of who they interviewed.

Rivera...so did Jerry.
Singletary...so did Jerry.
Turner...so did Jerry.
Zimmer...if Jerry had this place would have exploded.


On top of this can anyone doubt the guy they would have hired if he were there would be Phillips?


So, what you're saying is I need to heed the majority of the Chargers fans opinions?

The majority of Cowboys fans were ecstatic about the hiring of Bill Parcells.

I'm not trying to dig at a sore spot. I just don't see where Jerry has flubbed up anything yet.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

poor San Diego

he'll do well because they're so stacked