ESPN: Without Tom Brady, Patriots-Cowboys meeting not the same

[benson]

We'll missing our starting MLB and DE who probably is the best pass rusher on the team. So it's not like, we'll be at 100% either.

Both are due to be back that week.

 

[guag]

We'll missing our starting MLB and DE who probably is the best pass rusher on the team. So it's not like, we'll be at 100% either.

Nope...

 

[skinsscalper]

Well, the NFLPA certainly has presented a rock solid case against this particular suspension.

Actually, the coverage that I heard today on SiriusXM NFL Radio basically said that the NFL has played this whole thing almost flawlessly (since the appeal) starting with filing in Manhattan and Goodell's explanation citing previous transgressions that the NFL used as a parallel (considering this offense and punishment is unprecedented). Goodell's statement to justify (which is 20 pages long and took the legal analyst on the radio today twice to read through and wrap his head around) was touted as a brilliant pre-emptive strike that was more along the lines as an offensive move. Rather than waiting for the NFLPA and Brady's legal team to raise doubt in court regarding the length pf suspension, the NFL shot down many defense arguments before they could even be argued before a court of law with (from what I understand) solid logical guidelines that are within the rights of the commissioner under the CBA to dole out.

We'll all see, eventually, how this whole thing plays out but it sounded to me like the NFL had a pretty solid case. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Goodell by any stretch of the imagination but, honestly, I'm sick of the wrist slaps that the Patriots have been handed every single time that they get caught cheating. Time to pay the piper, AFAIK.

 

[Rogah]

Actually, the coverage that I heard today on SiriusXM NFL Radio basically said that the NFL has played this whole thing almost flawlessly (since the appeal) starting with filing in Manhattan and Goodell's explanation citing previous transgressions that the NFL used as a parallel (considering this offense and punishment is unprecedented).

Wait a second... you mean to tell me the official radio station of the NFL is saying that the league did everything perfectly and Goodell is right on the money??? I'm shocked - shocked - to hear such a thing!!!

It'll be a miracle if they even win the fight to get this heard in Manhattan instead of Minnesota. The are 2 compelling reasons why the first-to-file rule doesn't apply. (1) The 2 parties filed their motions on the same day, and (2) courts have consistently ruled that first-to-file does not apply to pre-emptive strikes like the NFL did.

e'll all see, eventually, how this whole thing plays out but it sounded to me like the NFL had a pretty solid case. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Goodell by any stretch of the imagination but, honestly, I'm sick of the wrist slaps that the Patriots have been handed every single time that they get caught cheating. Time to pay the piper, AFAIK.

"Every time"? They got caught once and received what was, at the time, the toughest punishment in the history of the NFL.

You want to see a slap on the wrist? Google "Falcons crowd noise".

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Well, the NFLPA certainly has presented a rock solid case against this particular suspension.

Yea, so rock solid that everybody but blind Pats homers just shake their heads at all the nonsense.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Actually, the coverage that I heard today on SiriusXM NFL Radio basically said that the NFL has played this whole thing almost flawlessly (since the appeal) starting with filing in Manhattan and Goodell's explanation citing previous transgressions that the NFL used as a parallel (considering this offense and punishment is unprecedented). Goodell's statement to justify (which is 20 pages long and took the legal analyst on the radio today twice to read through and wrap his head around) was touted as a brilliant pre-emptive strike that was more along the lines as an offensive move. Rather than waiting for the NFLPA and Brady's legal team to raise doubt in court regarding the length pf suspension, the NFL shot down many defense arguments before they could even be argued before a court of law with (from what I understand) solid logical guidelines that are within the rights of the commissioner under the CBA to dole out.

We'll all see, eventually, how this whole thing plays out but it sounded to me like the NFL had a pretty solid case. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Goodell by any stretch of the imagination but, honestly, I'm sick of the wrist slaps that the Patriots have been handed every single time that they get caught cheating. Time to pay the piper, AFAIK.

I'm a nerd and enjoy reading Supreme Court Decisions. Anyway, the SCOTUS has said that with matters like equipment, rules, and schedule that were integral to the game itself were not subject to anti-trust scrutiny and they could move unilaterally. It essentially disagreed with the NFL in terms of payroll being integral to the game but gave them that. Because it's a labor punishment issues of fairness and common practice are still in play but historically the US sports have always hammered cheaters. Pete Rose was banned from baseball for gambling and lying about it. This is in that same ballpark I think.

 

[Rogah]

Yea, so rock solid that everybody but blind Pats homers just shake their heads at all the nonsense.

Plenty of legal experts think they have a great chance of winning. Seriously, has the NFL ever actually gone to court and won against the NFLPA??

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Plenty of legal experts think they have a great chance of winning. Seriously, has the NFL ever actually gone to court and won against the NFLPA??

And plenty of legal experts think Brady doesnt have a leg to stand on and wont even get an injunction. We will see . . . . . .

 

[Rogah]

Pete Rose was banned from baseball for gambling and lying about it. This is in that same ballpark I think.

Really? An equipment violation is "in the same ballpark" as gambling on a game that you participate in (which, by the way, is also a violation of federal law)?

Really????

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

Really? An equipment violation is "in the same ballpark" as gambling on a game that you participate in (which, by the way, is also a violation of federal law)?

Really????

Actually cheating in a championship game is far more negative when it comes to the integrity of the game. Gambling only has the potential to be negative, but in both cases rules were broken and the rule breakers lied repeatedly.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Really? An equipment violation is "in the same ballpark" as gambling on a game that you participate in (which, by the way, is also a violation of federal law)?

Really????

Systematic tampering with equipment over the course of seasons including a championship and then destroying evidence and otherwise being obstructive is pretty egregious. In fact tampering with equipment has a direct relationship with changing the outcome of a game. Rose wasn't always betting against the Reds, quite the contrary. I know youre more a Pats fan than Cowboys fan and all but the preponderance of the evidence is what it is.

 

[skinsscalper]

Wait a second... you mean to tell me the official radio station of the NFL is saying that the league did everything perfectly and Goodell is right on the money??? I'm shocked - shocked - to hear such a thing!!!

It'll be a miracle if they even win the fight to get this heard in Manhattan instead of Minnesota. The are 2 compelling reasons why the first-to-file rule doesn't apply. (1) The 2 parties filed their motions on the same day, and (2) courts have consistently ruled that first-to-file does not apply to pre-emptive strikes like the NFL did.

"Every time"? They got caught once and received what was, at the time, the toughest punishment in the history of the NFL.

You want to see a slap on the wrist? Google "Falcons crowd noise".

First of all, there weren't any shills for the league on the the show. Both Bruce Murray ad Rich Gannon have been openly critical of the league during this entire matter. They, also, weren't the one's backslapping the league's legal maneuvers (it was the analyst that called in during the show). BTW don't cry in your Wheaties when the case is heard in Manhattan and not Minnesota. I won't come back to rub your nose in it, but you'll know your nose has been rubbed, regardless.

Speaking of google, learn how to use it and check out the seedy **** that the Patriots have been doing for years in the NFL (including using a huge replay board at an establishment visible only from the Pats sideline). And that "toughest punishment in the history of the NFL" was a wrist slap considering the offense that was completely covered up by the NFL when they destroyed every single shred of evidence.

Crowd noise and DIRECTLY affecting a game implement are COMPLETELY different things. The Falcons should have been punished (and more severely that they were). But let's be real. The difference between the "sound guy" and the QB trying to directly affect the game are two completely different worlds.

 

[Rogah]

Actually cheating in a championship game is far more negative when it comes to the integrity of the game. Gambling only has the potential to be negative, but in both cases rules were broken and the rule breakers lied repeatedly.

 

[Rogah]

Speaking of google, learn how to use it and check out the seedy **** that the Patriots have been doing for years in the NFL (including using a huge replay board at an establishment visible only from the Pats sideline).

LOL!!! Thank you for proving there really is one born every minute!!

Here's a picture of the "huge replay board visible only from the Pats sideline". You can't even see it without the arrow pointing to it, and even then it isn't even remotely visible.

 

[skinsscalper]

I'm a nerd and enjoy reading Supreme Court Decisions. Anyway, the SCOTUS has said that with matters like equipment, rules, and schedule that were integral to the game itself were not subject to anti-trust scrutiny and they could move unilaterally. It essentially disagreed with the NFL in terms of payroll being integral to the game but gave them that. Because it's a labor punishment issues of fairness and common practice are still in play but historically the US sports have always hammered cheaters. Pete Rose was banned from baseball for gambling and lying about it. This is in that same ballpark I think.

Another thing to note: from what I understood, from the coverage that I heard today, the matter in which the evidence was collected and the actual investigation (which is the argument that Brady defenders have hung their collective hats on) itself wasn't likely to even be heard in federal court. I'm no legal analyst, but the argument of whether Goodell's ruling was within the guidelines of the CBA to mete out the punishment and the severity of the punishment, itself, was consistent with precedent (in a virtually unprecedented case).

 

[rpntex]

While I agree with a lot of your posts (example: Greg Hardy), in this case I don't. It has become so much more than an "equipment violation". The crux of the issue that got him the four games is the destruction of his phone, which the league is calling "obstruction and non-cooperation".

Most pundits - and I do literally mean MOST - are saying that Brady doesn't have a very good chance of winning this.

 

[skinsscalper]

LOL!!! Thank you for proving there really is one born every minute!!

Here's a picture of the "huge replay board visible only from the Pats sideline". You can't even see it without the arrow pointing to it, and even then it isn't even remotely visible.

And I'm certain that the Patriots have NO IDEA what is on that screen from kick off to final whistle. It's not like they would actually have someone watch for them or anything. I mean, that would be cheating. The Patriots would never do that.



You're right, there is one born every minute.

 

[Rogah]

Another thing to note: from what I understood, from the coverage that I heard today, the matter in which the evidence was collected and the actual investigation (which is the argument that Brady defenders have hung their collective hats on) itself wasn't likely to even be heard in federal court. I'm no legal analyst, but the argument of whether Goodell's ruling was within the guidelines of the CBA to mete out the punishment and the severity of the punishment, itself, was consistent with precedent (in a virtually unprecedented case).

How was it consistent with precedent? The Vikings-Panthers game had a clear violation of the rules against ball tampering, and they got nothing more than a letter of warning. Brett Favre refused to turn over his phone, and he got a $50k fine (no suspension).

What is the precedent you feel applies?

 

[skinsscalper]

While I agree with a lot of your posts (example: Greg Hardy), in this case I don't. It has become so much more than an "equipment violation". The crux of the issue that got him the four games is the destruction of his phone, which the league is calling "obstruction and non-cooperation".

Most pundits - and I do literally mean MOST - are saying that Brady doesn't have a very good chance of winning this.

Actually, the entire premise of the case is much simpler than that. The balls were tampered with after the official pre-game check. Every single QB analyst has flat out said that there is absolutely NO WAY that the equipment guys would, on their own, alter the state of a football without the QBs knowledge and certain guidance if they wanted to keep their job beyond a week.

To top it off, Tom Brady is jumping the shark like no one's business with this whole thing. I heard a report today that Tom had basically said that he "barely knew" the equipment guys in question. Really, Tom? Umpteen years on the team and you barely know the equipment guys? Come on.

 

[Rogah]

And I'm certain that the Patriots have NO IDEA what is on that screen from kick off to final whistle. It's not like they would actually have someone watch for them or anything. I mean, that would be cheating. The Patriots would never do that.



You're right, there is one born every minute.

*** are you talking about? That screen shows the television feed of the game. Newsflash: THEY HAVE TELEVISIONS IN THE BOOTH. THEY'RE ALLOWED TO WATCH THE VIDEO FEED OF THE GAME. THE VIDEO BOARDS IN PLACE IN MANY STADIUMS SHOW THE EXACT SAME THING. If watching TV was cheating, why would they do it on the giant TV outside the stadium instead of, say, in the locker room?

Haven't you ever heard of a coach waiting to hear from "the guys upstairs" whether or not to challenge a call??? Haven't you ever seen Jason Garrett look up at the video board to help decide it he wants to challenge a call?