Ezekiel Elliott vs Lamar Miller

[Risen Star]

What people keep forgetting to mention with all this "we coulda had Miller" talk is that he actually has a decision on where he wanted to sign! So while Dallas COULD have signed Miller he chose Houston. Put these threads to rest.

We lucked out.

BTW, the curious case of Alfred Morris is a perfect example of why the NFL Draft should take place before veteran free agency.

 

[Zordon]

LOL. You are sooooo talking to the wrong guy here. I'm willing to sacrifice Ramsey for the best punter.

Barring injury, Ezekiel Elliott will be on of the top 3 backs in the game over the next 10 years. Something the Cowboys can build their offense around for Romo and the next QB.

Why the hell am I debating DBs with you? Completely forgot your stance on them.

Just curious, what type of numbers are you expecting from Elliott for him to deserve a 2nd contract here?

 

[Spectre]

Overall, I'm pleased with the draft but the debate between these two players is still bothering. I'm not confident that the Cowboys allocated their resources properly here. We could have had Lamar Miller for less money and used the 4th pick somewhere else, most likely on Ramsey. Granted, Miller is a few years older but he's a known commodity and also considered a "complete back" just like Elliott. We all agree that both players would improve our run game from last year but is the difference between Elliott and Miller worth a Jalen Ramsey and $11 million dollars? What do you guys think? I don't have a strong stance on this so I'm open to some convincing.

Elliott (21 yrs old) - 4 yrs/$25 million (fully guaranteed)

or

Miller (25 yrs old) - 4 yrs/$26 million (14M guaranteed) + Jalen Ramsey or another player at #4

You can't put a value on the excitement and boost to a franchise for finding (and grooming?) their own star. Miller is good, but he'll always have been a Dolphin first. There's something to be said for having drafted a great player, instead of signing him. Elliott will be a true Cowboy; wearing the star from day 1. Whether you realize it or not, it's part of what we all love about Romo, Witten, Dez, Smith, Lee (and others), and it really sticks in the rest of the league's craw.

 

[tyke1doe]

Miller has 19 tds the last 2 years. That's pretty damn good considering he only gets about 200 carries a year.

That being said, I won't argue that Elliott is the superior back. But I do think it's fair to ask if he improves an already decent run game significantly more than Miller that you're willing to sacrifice Ramsey.

Zeke is closer to Emmitt than Ramsey is to Deion. If Ramsey were closer to Deion, then I would have been all over him (drafting-wise, that is).

And Ramsey doesn't help our defense in the way that Zeke helps our offense - and defense.

Even if Zeke doesn't turn out to be super back, I'm not going to rue his selection. You can only go by the information you have at the time of your decision. Everyone was saying that Zeke was the safest pick and one of the best, if not the best, player in this draft.

As for Miller, I've only seen him in limited action - and in a game where he ran a touchdown that cost me in fantasy football. So I can't really say much for or against him. But if he were the caliber back Zeke is, I doubt the Dolphins would have let him walk, especially at his relatively young age. Yet they did.

That says something about their value of him as Zeke's selection says something about his value also.

 

[Zordon]

What people keep forgetting to mention with all this "we coulda had Miller" talk is that he actually has a decision on where he wanted to sign! So while Dallas COULD have signed Miller he chose Houston. Put these threads to rest.

We never showed serious interest in Miller. If we did, he would be a Cowboy.

 

[slick325]

I was a fan of Miller from his time at The U. He wasn't a better back in college than Elliott and he also doesn't project to be a better pro either.

Miller will play well in Houston I suspect but who knows if he can carry the full load? His QB is a question mark as is his line. Those questions don't exist in Dallas. Elliott will be the better player barring injury.

 

[Risen Star]

Why the hell am I debating DBs with you? Completely forgot your stance on them.

Just curious, what type of numbers are you expecting from Elliott for him to deserve a 2nd contract here?

I think he'll average 1,300 yards and 12 TDs. I'd imagine he'll have a few bigger years than that over his career. 1,500 plus, maybe flirt with 20 TDs. He'll also have that Emmitt trait of showing up when he's most needed.

If the Cowboys feature him this year, and it would be a crime not to, he'll win the rookie of the year going away.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I would have taken Miller and the 4th, regardless of what we did with it. Yes, it would have cost more money but the flip side is that it's going to cost us more money once these contracts expire for these DBs anyway. If you go the Miller 4th route, you can address another need on Defense and bring us that much closer to a championship in the time we have left.

 

[Zordon]

Zeke is closer to Emmitt than Ramsey is to Deion. If Ramsey were closer to Deion, then I would have been all over him (drafting-wise, that is).

And Ramsey doesn't help our defense in the way that Zeke helps our offense - and defense.

Even if Zeke doesn't turn out to be super back, I'm not going to rue his selection. You can only go by the information you have at the time of your decision. Everyone was saying that Zeke was the safest pick and one of the best, if not the best, player in this draft.

As for Miller, I've only seen him in limited action - and in a game where he ran a touchdown that cost me in fantasy football. So I can't really say much for or against him. But if he were the caliber back Zeke is, I doubt the Dolphins would have let him walk, especially at his relatively young age. Yet they did.

That says something about their value of him as Zeke's selection says something about his value also.

I hope you're right. Lord knows I trust your opinion and those on CZ more than the Cowboys when it comes to DBs. The last decade we've failed miserably at evaluating DBs for the draft and free agency.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Overall, I'm pleased with the draft but the debate between these two players is still bothering. I'm not confident that the Cowboys allocated their resources properly here. We could have had Lamar Miller for less money and used the 4th pick somewhere else, most likely on Ramsey. Granted, Miller is a few years older but he's a known commodity and also considered a "complete back" just like Elliott. We all agree that both players would improve our run game from last year but is the difference between Elliott and Miller worth a Jalen Ramsey and $11 million dollars? What do you guys think? I don't have a strong stance on this so I'm open to some convincing.

Elliott (21 yrs old) - 4 yrs/$25 million (fully guaranteed)

or

Miller (25 yrs old) - 4 yrs/$26 million (14M guaranteed) + Jalen Ramsey or another player at #4

I've made this point. But you're not going to convince the masses that Zeke isn't their lord and savior aka Emmitt Smith reincarnated.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Can people jsut get over all this value and use of resources crap. It will not change the fact we got the best value because we got the best player.
Money is not the issue here...it is producing points that will help produce wins.

Ok, look,at it this way....you can spend $5 on a fantastic hamburger...or you can spend $1 on a good McDonalds hamburger....but which hamburger will you tell your friends about....

If someone said they will pay for that hamburger for you, which one would you choose.

I'm going to get the the $5 burger and then get 5 $1 burgers cuz Im fat. Then Im going to tell my friends I slept with Jessica Biel cuz Im a delusional liar.

 

[Zordon]

I would have taken Miller and the 4th, regardless of what we did with it. Yes, it would have cost more money but the flip side is that it's going to cost us more money once these contracts expire for these DBs anyway. If you go the Miller 4th route, you can address another need on Defense and bring us that much closer to a championship in the time we have left.

@Sam I Am makes a fair point about the extra money needed for both players. I didn't consider that. But you make a good point about DBs costing a premium in free agency. Also, I'd add that if money became an issue it would give us more incentive to trade down for a cheaper contract. We wouldn't get Ramsey but we'd get additional picks to address the defense.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Elliott is an elite back. Like Peterson/Gurley good.

Lamar Miller has been an okay player. Why this board Elvised out on him I have no idea. My brother is a Dolphins fan who would usually whine if they lost a good player. He doesn't even care about Miller.

Putting Zeke with Peterson and Gurley is a joke. He is a great prospect. Those guys were freak athletes and have actually done it in the NFL.

 

[Cowboys22]

Overall, I'm pleased with the draft but the debate between these two players is still bothering. I'm not confident that the Cowboys allocated their resources properly here. We could have had Lamar Miller for less money and used the 4th pick somewhere else, most likely on Ramsey. Granted, Miller is a few years older but he's a known commodity and also considered a "complete back" just like Elliott. We all agree that both players would improve our run game from last year but is the difference between Elliott and Miller worth a Jalen Ramsey and $11 million dollars? What do you guys think? I don't have a strong stance on this so I'm open to some convincing.

Elliott (21 yrs old) - 4 yrs/$25 million (fully guaranteed)

or

Miller (25 yrs old) - 4 yrs/$26 million (14M guaranteed) + Jalen Ramsey or another player at #4

Its not as simple as that. You are forgetting the salary cap. We could have had every other free agent available as well but no way to pay them under the cap. In the equation above, you leave off the 4/25 fully guaranteed salary due to Jalen Ramsey as the #4 pick. I was one that wanted Miller but they decided not to pay him the salary he wanted. Once that decision was made, Elliot became a viable option at #4. You could play this game with every free agent and every pick with every team. You can't get them all!

 

[Toruk_Makto]

LOL. You are sooooo talking to the wrong guy here. I'm willing to sacrifice Ramsey for the best punter.

Barring injury, Ezekiel Elliott will be on of the top 3 backs in the game over the next 10 years. Something the Cowboys can build their offense around for Romo and the next QB.

"Barring injury".....but with the RB position you have to take that into consideration. They get hurt more than any other position.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

What people keep forgetting to mention with all this "we coulda had Miller" talk is that he actually has a decision on where he wanted to sign! So while Dallas COULD have signed Miller he chose Houston. Put these threads to rest.

It was widely established that we were his preferred destination. It is also widely established we didn't come anywhere near his asking price. Instead we couldn't wait to overpay for a RB (dollars & draft).

 

[NorthwestDallas40]

What we're fixing to see with Zeke is Tony Dorsett. Emmitt Smith.

Scoff if you want but he has the ability and the Cowboys wouldn't have taken him that high if they weren't expecting greatness.

Same thing Cleveland was fixing to see with Trent Richardson... I was in favor of the pick, but a long way to go before we mention this kid with those two.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Its not as simple as that. You are forgetting the salary cap. We could have had every other free agent available as well but no way to pay them under the cap. In the equation above, you leave off the 4/25 fully guaranteed salary due to Jalen Ramsey as the #4 pick. I was one that wanted Miller but they decided not to pay him the salary he wanted. Once that decision was made, Elliot became a viable option at #4. You could play this game with every free agent and every pick with every team. You can't get them all!

Signing Miller to a contract for 6M a year and only 14M guaranteed would have absolutely zero impact on our ability to sign and retain our core. And what you don't realize is that given we used the 4th pick on him there will be great pressure to use the 5th year option on Zeke and resign him to a huge deal right when he is set for decline. There would be no such pressure to do the same for Miller. So in that 5th year you then have a balloon payment for a depreciating asset.

Just terrible.

 

[Vero_F250]

We never showed serious interest in Miller. If we did, he would be a Cowboy.

If you know that for sure, what are the powerball numbers for tomorrow so I can quit my job!

 

[AsthmaField]

Had Miller been 20 years old (finishing the contract at 24) and as good a player as Elliott, I think the Cowboys would have had zero problem paying him. Problem was, Miller is 24 (finishing his contract at 29) and he isn't anywhere as good a player as Elliott. So the Cowboys bid what they considered to be an amount commensurate with his age and abilities and someone else paid him more.

Oh well.

Elliott is far superior as a runner/blocker/etc. and will finish his contract out at 25 (with the option year). There just is no good comparison between the two situations.

I'm sure plenty of fans think Dallas could have had a great runner and still drafted Ramsey but the truth is, Miller is nowhere near the prospect that Elliott is.