Ezekiel Elliott vs Lamar Miller

[jday]

I think that you are looking at age only when you should be looking at carries, one of the good things about Miller is the low mileage he has. In 2012 he had 55, in 2013 he had 177, 2014-216, and in 2015-194. In his highest carry year he averaged 13.5 carries a game, low mileage and proven in the NFL.

First, age is not a respecter of carry count. Second, Miller is not Zeke. You can't take height, weight, and 40 times that our comparable and assume you have the same player.

 

[erod]

I liken this to:

Ladanian Tomlinson (Elliott) vs. Byron Hanspard (Miller)

 

[kazzd58]

Overall, I'm pleased with the draft but the debate between these two players is still bothering. I'm not confident that the Cowboys allocated their resources properly here. We could have had Lamar Miller for less money and used the 4th pick somewhere else, most likely on Ramsey. Granted, Miller is a few years older but he's a known commodity and also considered a "complete back" just like Elliott. We all agree that both players would improve our run game from last year but is the difference between Elliott and Miller worth a Jalen Ramsey and $11 million dollars? What do you guys think? I don't have a strong stance on this so I'm open to some convincing.

Elliott (21 yrs old) - 4 yrs/$25 million (fully guaranteed)

or

Miller (25 yrs old) - 4 yrs/$26 million (14M guaranteed) + Jalen Ramsey or another player at #4

He is nothing like Zeke.... Nothing like him to different style of players

 

[TheCount]

You're gonna get crapped on by the Zeke love fest, but it's a valid conversation topic.

Given the fact that Zeke, without having taken an NFL snap yet, is already the best running back in the history of the world though - it's not a conversation that's going to go anywhere.

You could also flip the argument and say that by getting better value for Carr, and bringing back Mo, we were in a position to not HAVE to draft Jalen and instead go with the player the scouts and staff were most excited about.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I liken this to:

Ladanian Tomlinson (Elliott) vs. Byron Hanspard (Miller)

The problem there is that Hanspard lasted three years in the league. He sustained a knee injury in his 2nd season and never returned to forum. However, had he stayed healthy, he may have been one heck of a player. He might never have been a great back, he had a very limited amount of carries but he did have a 6.3 YPC average. However, he did have over 1300 all purpose yards. He was a heck of a return man. He had over 900 return yards.

I don't think that Hanspard is a good comparison to Miller. Miller has already shown much more as a RB.

 

[birdwells1]

First, age is not a respecter of carry count. Second, Miller is not Zeke. You can't take height, weight, and 40 times that our comparable and assume you have the same player.

No, again I think that Zeke maybe (because he hasn't played a down in the NFL) better than Miller, but I can look up stats on how Miller did against NFL teams as of yet I can't do that for Zeke. In reality, Miller is more proven than Zeke is at the moment, what we are looking at with Zeke is measurables and college highlights to determine what he might do against NFL defenses. I don't want to come off as anti Zeke because I was excited when we picked him and thought that it was the right choice but when factoring in getting Miller and the number 4, that something to debate.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No, again I think that Zeke maybe (because he hasn't played a down in the NFL) better than Miller, but I can look up stats on how Miller did against NFL teams as of yet I can't do that for Zeke. In reality, Miller is more proven than Zeke is at the moment, what we are looking at with Zeke is measurables and college highlights to determine what he might do against NFL defenses. I don't want to come off as anti Zeke because I was excited when we picked him and thought that it was the right choice but when factoring in getting Miller and the number 4, that something to debate.

I have to agree. Miller is not a bad option at all IMO. In 4 seasons, he has 638 attempts. That's less then 200 carries per season on average. He also has a 4.6 AYPC behind a line that is not all that. 117 receptions for an AYPR of 8.4. He is really not a bad option at all IMO.

 

[AsthmaField]

You could also flip the argument and say that by getting better value for Carr, and bringing back Mo, we were in a position to not HAVE to draft Jalen and instead go with the player the scouts and staff were most excited about.

That is a good point Nosferatu.

 

[AsthmaField]

I think it is as simple as Dallas didn't see Miller as that huge of an upgrade over McFadden/Morris... while they saw Elliott as a long shot better. Throw in the age difference and it doesn't seem difficult to see why they might would pass on Miller and would be excited to add Elliott.

 

[wileedog]

I think it is as simple as Dallas didn't see Miller as that huge of an upgrade over McFadden/Morris... while they saw Elliott as a long shot better. Throw in the age difference and it doesn't seem difficult to see why they might would pass on Miller and would be excited to add Elliott.

And that's the problem. Some people do see a big enough difference between Miller and the current duo to warrant getting much more needed defensive help with that pick. I certainly think there would have been a huge difference between Ramsey and either of our current safeties.

I get why they thought what they did, and overall not terribly upset with the pick - I would be if they had traded up to 4 for him, that's for sure. But there was another way to go just as viable if not more IMO.

 

[dallasdave]

You know it!

 

[AsthmaField]

And that's the problem. Some people do see a big enough difference between Miller and the current duo to warrant getting much more needed defensive help with that pick. I certainly think there would have been a huge difference between Ramsey and either of our current safeties.

I get why they thought what they did, and overall not terribly upset with the pick - I would be if they had traded up to 4 for him, that's for sure. But there was another way to go just as viable if not more IMO.

I hear you man. And like you, I also see the other side of the argument. So I get where you're coming from.

All I can really do is speak for myself, and my opinion is that Elliott is light years better than Miller ever could be. I see Zeke as a very special player, including his mental makeup and intangibles (and I saw it that way long before he was a Dallas Cowboy). I think he was the best guy available and I think the team made the right choice.

Again, speaking for myself, I thought Miller was just a middling back and wasn't excited at the thought of adding him. Really, the only thing he had going for him in my mind, was he was relatively young and would have finished out the majority of his contract before he started his inevitable downhill slide. Like Dallas, I am all for only paying younger guys in free agency unless you're talking very, very cheap.

However, once I saw the price tag for Miller, I was like, "Aww hell no." I just don't see him as very special at all.

I obviously don't know the inner workings of the Cowboys any more than anyone else here... but judging my their actions (or inactivity as it pertains to Miller), they have a similar viewpoint when it comes to these two players.

Had a guy I liked anywhere close to Elliott been on the open market and had he been anywhere as close to as young as Zeke, then I would have been on the rooftops yelling for Dallas to bring him in. The thought of getting a guy close to Elliott and then drafting Ramsey is an awesome idea. Unfortunately, IMO, Miller isn't in the same Galaxy as Elliott and is way, way overpaid in Houston.

JMO though, of course.

 

[birdwells1]

I hear you man. And like you, I also see the other side of the argument. So I get where you're coming from.

All I can really do is speak for myself, and my opinion is that Elliott is light years better than Miller ever could be. I see Zeke as a very special player, including his mental makeup and intangibles (and I saw it that way long before he was a Dallas Cowboy). I think he was the best guy available and I think the team made the right choice.

Again, speaking for myself, I thought Miller was just a middling back and wasn't excited at the thought of adding him. Really, the only thing he had going for him in my mind, was he was relatively young and would have finished out the majority of his contract before he started his inevitable downhill slide. Like Dallas, I am all for only paying younger guys in free agency unless you're talking very, very cheap.

However, once I saw the price tag for Miller, I was like, "Aww hell no." I just don't see him as very special at all.

I obviously don't know the inner workings of the Cowboys any more than anyone else here... but judging my their actions (or inactivity as it pertains to Miller), they have a similar viewpoint when it comes to these two players.

Had a guy I liked anywhere close to Elliott been on the open market and had he been anywhere as close to as young as Zeke, then I would have been on the rooftops yelling for Dallas to bring him in. The thought of getting a guy close to Elliott and then drafting Ramsey is an awesome idea. Unfortunately, IMO, Miller isn't in the same Galaxy as Elliott and is way, way overpaid in Houston.

JMO though, of course.

Yeah I can see both sides to, I think what it boils down to is how good will Miller be in Houston getting 20+ carries a game? Can he be a bell cow? If you think yes, then you'd be interested in having him and the #4, if not then you think giving up Zeke just ain't worth it. I really hope that Miller busts because I live in the Houston area and their hate for all things Cowboys is terribly annoying. I root for the Boys every week and for whoever plays the Texans.

 

[zrinkill]

Zeke is already the best running back in the history of the world.

I so proud of you count

 

[wileedog]

Yeah I can see both sides to, I think what it boils down to is how good will Miller be in Houston getting 20+ carries a game? Can he be a bell cow? If you think yes, then you'd be interested in having him and the #4, if not then you think giving up Zeke just ain't worth it. I really hope that Miller busts because I live in the Houston area and their hate for all things Cowboys is terribly annoying. I root for the Boys every week and for whoever plays the Texans.

Miller put up a 4.6 YPC average behind a line that PFF ranked as the 31st in the league last year. Add in his versatility in the passing game and undeniable production (10 TDs,most of which were not of the short yardage variety)and I think he is a good back who has been underused. Maybe not 20+carry good, but McFadden would be still here cheap regardless to split carries.

I don't know, maybe my opinion is biased by being absolutely tired of marching out placeholder and project safeties basically since Woody left. And another year watching Church and Wilcox isn't going to help that. Let's stop spending so many top resources just to keep the defense off the field and start getting some players that actually make them better on it IMO.

 

[Dodger12]

Elliott is an elite back. Like Peterson/Gurley good.

Lamar Miller has been an okay player. Why this board Elvised out on him I have no idea. My brother is a Dolphins fan who would usually whine if they lost a good player. He doesn't even care about Miller.

What?!? You mean there are two of you?

You'd also better bookmark this thread and your professed love for EE. As the off-season progresses, the masses will forget and you'll labeled a hater again.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Let's stop spending so many top resources just to keep the defense off the field and start getting some players that actually make them better on it IMO.

I have to say that I agree with this. I understand the concept of controlling the game and trying to limit the shots opposing Offenses have against our Defense but honestly, the best way to do that is to acquire enough talent on the Defensive side of the ball so that they can get themselves off the field. Good teams do both. They limit opportunities by moving the chains, they score in the Redzone, they play smart football using field position and they have a Defense that gets off the field on third down.

 

[Risen Star]

What?!? You mean there are two of you?

You'd also better bookmark this thread and your professed love for EE. As the off-season progresses, the masses will forget and you'll labeled a hater again.

Three. The other brother is a Vikings fan.

I'm my mom's favorite though. She's a good broad.

 

[jnday]

You're gonna get crapped on by the Zeke love fest, but it's a valid conversation topic.

Given the fact that Zeke, without having taken an NFL snap yet, is already the best running back in the history of the world though - it's not a conversation that's going to go anywhere.

You could also flip the argument and say that by getting better value for Carr, and bringing back Mo, we were in a position to not HAVE to draft Jalen and instead go with the player the scouts and staff were most excited about.

I am a huge fan of putting a great RB behind this line because I love smashmouth, run it down your throat , football. I agree with you on the unrealistic expectations that are being posted. I have watched several great RBs in my lifetime and I knew that they was great after watching them for only a few minutes. I don't see that when I watch Zeke. I hope that I am wrong, and I probably am. I have only watched a few games of his. Even though I am a fan of great RBs, the whole "walking on water " comments are getting old. He hasn't played a single down of pro ball, but these comments make you think that he is Barry Sanders. I hope he is the GOAT, but I hope these comments get back to reality soon.

 

[Zordon]

That is another conversation for another day when that time comes. But, if you want to take this debate to hypothetical land, I'll walk with you for a bit. Just keep in mind, your OP was only comparing Zeke vs Miller + the Cowboys pick of what was left in the draft. I stand firm in my belief that the Cowboys made the right decision...in fact, I predicted it.

The first thing you must consider when looking 5 years into the future is that the Cowboys team will likely no longer feature Romo...or Jerry Jones, given his age. So, by merit of how difficult it is going to be to find Romo's successor, the Cowboys are in win-now mode. 5 years from now Dez will be a shell of his former self. Gone will be Witten, Sean Lee (probably) as well as a host of other players on the wrong side of their prime today. That is the nature of the business. The truth is if you have a good young quarterback, you can afford to make more picks with the longer-view in mind; you have that luxury...the Cowboys don't.

Also, given the strength of the Cowboys line as it stands, there is a good chance they are going to have say goodbye to a very good player at some point in the next 5 years. Once again, that is the nature of the business. The truth is, in total, about half of the Cowboys roster will say goodbye in the next 5 years.

My point is, if Zeke is still productive and the Cowboys are in a rare window to win and possibly compete for a championship, there is great chance they will make a play to keep him. If they are not in that mode, they may say goodbye, but at the point, the fans who understand all of the above will not really care to keep window dressing on a shanty.

So again, regardless of how you slice it, the Cowboys made the right move. Some, however, will have to see for themselves what Zeke adds to believe it.

Under this scenario, I truly believe the #4 pick should be someone that can help you transition into the post-Romo world. A top 5 pick is too valuable and too rare for this franchise to be satisfied with it only get one contract out of the pick. The chances of that happening multiplied by us drafting after a running back for obvious reasons. Ramsey would have helped us at DB/safety - two positions of need whether the window is open or closed. Not getting Ramsey now just means we'll have to pay a premium later in free agency considering how many FAs we have in the secondary after this year.