Falcons add college-style option to running game

[TEK2000]

It's not about wanting it to fail. It's about the fact it opens a QB up to unecessary hits. If he rolls out and pitches the ball he can still be hit because now since he is out of the pocket and downfield he is a potential blocker and if he trails the runner with the ball he is also a potential runner on a pitch back.

It works in college. I believe NFL teams are all too big and too fast for it to work at this level without dire consequences.

Just my opinion.

Based on the article's description.. they are not running the option they way you are describing it. They are running the Zone Read from the shotgun... the OPTION is immediate based on what the DE does. Its not the VEER or TRIPLE option where the QB is sprinting outside and a Pitch Man is following along with him.

I don't recall Vince Young ever taking a big hit in any type of scenario you described while running this offense (and I watched nearly every one of his college games).

If this is thrown at a defense a handful of times per game.. you will likely catch the NFL DE's off guard. I may have to download and watch the Atlanta vs Carolina game to see how Julius Peppers handled seeing that.

 

[Doomsday101]

Based on the article's description.. they are not running the option they way you are describing it. They are running the Zone Read from the shotgun... the OPTION is immediate based on what the DE does. Its not the VEER or TRIPLE option where the QB is sprinting outside and a Pitch Man is following along with him.

I don't recall Vince Young ever taking a big hit in any type of scenario you described while running this offense (and I watched nearly every one of his college games).

If this is thrown at a defense a handful of times per game.. you will likely catch the NFL DE's off guard. I may have to download and watch the Atlanta vs Carolina game to see how Julius Peppers handled seeing that.

Young would get hit but he was bigger than most of the guys who were going after him. I think you can do that in college I think you put your QB at greater risk on this level. There is just too much of a difference between this level of play and that of the NCAA

 

[chicago JK]

I agree with IM. people are making too big of a deal about this. The Falcons won't line up in the wishbone but they will throw this out to surprise a defense. It will also force defenses to spend practice time preparing for the option that they might or might not see. Vick is a weapon and they are just looking for different ways to take advantage of him.

 

[chicago JK]

Based on the article's description.. they are not running the option they way you are describing it. They are running the Zone Read from the shotgun... the OPTION is immediate based on what the DE does. Its not the VEER or TRIPLE option where the QB is sprinting outside and a Pitch Man is following along with him.

I don't recall Vince Young ever taking a big hit in any type of scenario you described while running this offense (and I watched nearly every one of his college games).

If this is thrown at a defense a handful of times per game.. you will likely catch the NFL DE's off guard. I may have to download and watch the Atlanta vs Carolina game to see how Julius Peppers handled seeing that.

good catch TEK. They have used this already this year and it has been very effective. If that End cheats in just a little, Vick can see that and it is probably an automatic 10 yard gain. If the DE plays his role of being containment the handoff goes to the RB.

 

[Hostile]

Based on the article's description.. they are not running the option they way you are describing it. They are running the Zone Read from the shotgun... the OPTION is immediate based on what the DE does. Its not the VEER or TRIPLE option where the QB is sprinting outside and a Pitch Man is following along with him.

I don't recall Vince Young ever taking a big hit in any type of scenario you described while running this offense (and I watched nearly every one of his college games).

If this is thrown at a defense a handful of times per game.. you will likely catch the NFL DE's off guard. I may have to download and watch the Atlanta vs Carolina game to see how Julius Peppers handled seeing that.

Why is everyone assuming only a DE would be the hitter?

Ever heard of LBs and Safeties under a full head of steam.

Remember when we were going to run some with Q at QB and we were going to open the season at Tampa? Sapp was begging us to run it. Ask yourself why.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

it's the only way the Falcons can make use of Vick, since he'll probably never develop into a consistent passer, having a great ground game, and Ds not knowing if VIck is going to hand off, or run w/ it, the advantage of the option, will help Vick in the passing game, as the Ds will be gearing towards running after him, a LB, leaving a TE, or secondary WR with less coverage, so he could fake the hand-off, roll-out, and then hit an open receiver, it's a good strategy brought on having an inconsistent passer in Vick, so in essence, they're playing to their weakness at QB, and making it a strength, I like it

 

[TEK2000]

Why is everyone assuming only a DE would be the hitter?

Ever heard of LBs and Safeties under a full head of steam.

Remember when we were going to run some with Q at QB and we were going to open the season at Tampa? Sapp was begging us to run it. Ask yourself why.

I was referring to the effectiveness of the play against the DE.

Ask yourself... what is the difference between the shotgun option and a BOOTLEG or QB DRAW? The LB's and Safeties are still running under a full head of steam. On any of those plays he's out in the open running the ball... there's no difference.

Also, the option the Cowboys used a few times with Quincy is the option you referred to... the QB is running outside with a pitch man. Based on everyone's description, this is NOT the same thing!

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Then you have to go back to a different system for your backup.

that's why Schaub is so valuable to them, he's actually a good passer, the option is the only way Vick can be a successful QB at his point in time, maybe for his whole career, if he gets hurt, they can go back to running a traditional WCO, and I don't think there will be much drop-off, either system, they'll have a strong running game, but w/ Schaub, they can be more balanced

 

[peplaw06]

There are times when they can be an effective passing team because they run so much.

One thing that really annoys me with this offense, or more specifically the Coach is that they rarely, If EVER, use the TE's in the passing game.

I would think a spread offense with limited passing they would use the TE in the passing game for safer passes by the QBs.

Running teams are doing themselves a disservice if they don't take advantage of the occassional pass. I was searching for stats on what used to be one of the best running teams in NCAA... Nebraska. They never had great passing QBs, but it always seemed like they would have a couple of big passing plays per game, often to the TEs. In 1999 Eric Crouch averaged over 16 yards per completion... that's ********.

For comparison, your "good" passing game yardage wise... benchmark of 300 yards. You'd have to get 300 yards on 18 completions to average over 16 yards per.

 

[TEK2000]

Young would get hit but he was bigger than most of the guys who were going after him. I think you can do that in college I think you put your QB at greater risk on this level. There is just too much of a difference between this level of play and that of the NCAA

I can see it working if you run it A FEW TIMES per game... no more than 5 to 10 times MAYBE is what I'm thinking.

You're gonna catch the defense off guard because, in reality, there's really not any major difference between NFL offenses. Its all about personell and being able to execute what you want to do. If a team throws out a big change from the norm like that only a very few times per game... its possible that they could have success with it in those limited uses.

 

[superpunk]

Remember when we were going to run some with Q at QB and we were going to open the season at Tampa? Sapp was begging us to run it. Ask yourself why.

Me: to self; "Why?"

Self: to me; "Stop asking me questions, ******."

I think Atlanta is doing what they gotta do.

They are not going to win attempting to make Vick something he isn't. While it's tough to put your enormous investment at so much risk, it's the only thing he's suited for.

They've chosen between wallowing in mediocrity, with the safe road, and exxcelling at something, by taking a chance. Once Vick gets annihilated, they will be questioned. But I can't fault them for trying.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The one thing I've seen with college spread offenses.. or failed to see... is passing after a fake handoff. IMO if an offense could put that to use, it would make it even more difficult to defend. Make it a triple threat play, you keep the secondary from providing run support.

it's utilizing Vick the best way possible

 

[TEK2000]

Running teams are doing themselves a disservice if they don't take advantage of the occassional pass. I was searching for stats on what used to be one of the best running teams in NCAA... Nebraska. They never had great passing QBs, but it always seemed like they would have a couple of big passing plays per game, often to the TEs. In 1999 Eric Crouch averaged over 16 yards per completion... that's ********.

For comparison, your "good" passing game yardage wise... benchmark of 300 yards. You'd have to get 300 yards on 18 completions to average over 16 yards per.

My dad coached this way for 20 years. He ran the VEER offense for 15 years and you'd wind up with some big pass plays because the defense expects it to be a run EVERY PLAY. The few times that you do pass you just give them a playaction and your recievers usually wind up being all alone because the defense was selling out against the run.

 

[Doomsday101]

Me: to self; "Why?"

Self: to me; "Stop asking me questions, ******."

I think Atlanta is doing what they gotta do.

They are not going to win attempting to make Vick something he isn't. While it's tough to put your enormous investment at so much risk, it's the only thing he's suited for.

They've chosen between wallowing in mediocrity, with the safe road, and exxcelling at something, by taking a chance. Once Vick gets annihilated, they will be questioned. But I can't fault them for trying.

I agree with this. I would not want to see this happen in Dallas and I think Alt made a mistake with the big contract extention they gave Vick last year or the year before (when ever it was) He is a great athlete I just don't think he is much of a QB but Alt is going to make the most of this situation. I don't think it will last long.

 

[landryscorner]

the only outcome I see to this is a big injury to VICK it's the reason he's always been injured, running the ball too much, it will catch up to the falcons when they loose him for the year

 

[joseephuss]

Why is everyone assuming only a DE would be the hitter?

Ever heard of LBs and Safeties under a full head of steam.

Remember when we were going to run some with Q at QB and we were going to open the season at Tampa? Sapp was begging us to run it. Ask yourself why.

If they ran it more than a handful of times, then I would agree. That would be setting the QB up to unneceesary hits.

If it creates scoring opportunities in goal line situations, I wouldn't see it as opening the QB up to unneccesary hits. I see it as trying to score.

It's such a fine line between stupid and clever. We'll see if the Falcons cross that line.

 

[peplaw06]

the only outcome I see to this is a big injury to VICK it's the reason he's always been injured, running the ball too much, it will catch up to the falcons when they loose him for the year

IMO Vick's biggest mistake when running the ball is not giving up on the play... thus taking the big hit. There have been some great QBs who ran the ball pretty effectively who didn't have near the severity of injuries that Vick has had. I'm mainly thinking of Cunningham and Young. Young got in trouble with concussions, but Aikman had that problem too.

Vick always tries to get that extra yard. I think he can still be a running QB but avoid the big hits. We all know he's fast enough to outrun guys. He just has to be smarter... know when to run out of bounds, slide, and the like.

 

[superpunk]

I agree with this. I would not want to see this happen in Dallas and I think Alt made a mistake with the big contract extention they gave Vick last year or the year before (when ever it was) He is a great athlete I just don't think he is much of a QB but Alt is going to make the most of this situation. I don't think it will last long.

They made their own bed with the hype machine. Vick is a huge money-making entity, and he is at least worth the money - until young boys can figure out that he sucks. This move can do nothing but good for Vick and the Falcons from a marketing perspective, because it makes him more dangerous. He's incapable of running the offense like a normal QB, because he is not a normal QB. He wasn't drafted where he was because he was a normal QB, nor given that contract for that reason.

If you're gonna ride the Vick train, you have to give it the best chance to succeed. They've finally "gotten" that. IMO, the reward far outweighs the risk.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

punk, I don't think going to option plays was a marketing move

 

[superpunk]

IMO Vick's biggest mistake when running the ball is not giving up on the play... thus taking the big hit. ....
Vick always tries to get that extra yard. I think he can still be a running QB but avoid the big hits. We al know he's fast enough to outrun guys. He just has to be smarter... know when to run out of bounds, slide, and the like.

Double-edged sword. How many of those highlights that make us all go "Woop!" along with that ignoramus Chris Berman when we see them, were caused by Vick making that extra move, taking that chance, and making it happen.

Who wants to see highlights of Vick running down the sideline only to step out of bounds 2 yards shy of the end zone? Noone. OTOH, you can show the video of him leaping across and getting up-ended over and over again.

He needs to learn when it's absolutely necessary, but he will never stop trying to get that extra yard. That's what makes him special. He's going to be broke down really early, but that;s what he's got to do.