Fans have a short memory - Tony Romo 2014 **merged**

[Super_Kazuya]

But he got hurt. And he got hurt on 3 consecutive hits. That changes a whole lot.

Question. If Romo comes back and struggles badly. How long will you give him? Are his feelings, and your admirations for him, worth screwing team chemistry and wins up?

Why would he struggle? Does a hairline fracture in your vertebrae prevent you from handing off the football?

 

[Blake]

Why would he struggle? Does a hairline fracture in your vertebrae prevent you from handing off the football?

NO, he's entirely mistaken. Romo will be the epitome of perfection. Afterall, it's Romo we're talking about here, not Joe Montana who can't hold Romo's jock. Romo is the greatest...ever.

 

[CowboyGil]

lol @ everyone saying what they said in the video in 2014...if tony couldnt perform at a high level, he'd personally hang it up. he knows himself.

If he is the competitor he appears to be, I don't know if I'd trust him to tell the organization he's done. And don't misconstrue, I have the utmost respect for him and what he's done and sacrificed for the Cowboys and their fans.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

NO, he's entirely mistaken. Romo will be the epitome of perfection. Afterall, it's Romo we're talking about here, not Joe Montana who can't hold Romo's jock. Romo is the greatest...ever.

Montana was very underrated at handing off.

 

[65fastback2plus2]

If he is the competitor he appears to be, I don't know if I'd trust him to tell the organization he's done. And don't misconstrue, I have the utmost respect for him and what he's done and sacrificed for the Cowboys and their fans.

Nah...tony is the type that if he is going down, he'll walk away.

He's not the type to flounder around and be horrible at a sport.

 

[KJJ]

Not sure how anyone could possibly compare Romo to Prescott. It's night and day right now. Will this kid continue to improve? Absolutely. Is he at Romo's level? Not even close. When Romo returns, the offense will open up, we'll be able to pass down field, and Elliott's production will increase even more.

Stunning how short people's memory's are and the media certainly doesn't want to help.

We're 4-1 and Dak ranks #2 in total QBR this season. He's completed 69% of his passes with 7 TD's passing/rushing, no INT's and has a passer rating of 101.5. How could he not be compared to Romo right now? He provides skills that Romo never did due to his ability to take off and run. Zeke is leading the league in rushing, his production has increased and one of the reasons is the read option we get with Dak at QB. The TD run Dak had on the read option last week you're not going to get with Romo.

We rank #2 in total offense. The Romo from 2 years ago isn't coming back, too many missed games and injuries. It's not like he's going to come back and give us TD's passing and rushing without any INT's. It's not like he's going to energize the team more than it is now. Two years ago Romo was the better QB but he no longer is the better QB due age, injuries and missed games. The more Dak plays the better he will get and the longer Romo sits the more corroded he becomes.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've also supported Romo as well as the aforementioned support for the argument of him being the NFL MVP in 2014. I just don't buy into the lapdogs that find any excuse for him making mistakes and turning the ball over and when he doesn't play well.

Dak, so far, has not turned the ball over outside of 1 fumble. Romo is turnover prone. But by the same token, I've also argued that poor coaching and playcalling have hurt Romo's career.

Currently, Dak is 2nd in FO.com's DYAR and 3rd in DVOA. The team has scored the 6th most points this year. As Parcells stated, at the end of the day, a QB is judged by getting the team into the endzone.

Furthermore, I think red zone passing is one of the weakest parts of Romo's game. He's not a good underneath thrower and doesn't throw a good fade ball. At least with Dak he's a running option that makes it hard for the weakside to not account for him. And that's why we have the best 3rd down offense in the NFL.

And yet, we want a 36-year old QB that hasn't played more than a few downs since last Thanksgiving and who got hurt immediately when he played in preseason to come right in and expect him to be on point.

Again, only a Romo lapdog would want him starting at this point in time. As Favre said, he should come back when he's needed.





YR

Turnover prone compared to what? Your hyperconservative ideal? Because it's not when compared to league average.

The team is leading the league in rushing TD and it's not even close. Dak's arm doesn't get the ball into the end zone. I am judging by his ability to throw into the end zone. Football outsiders is a yardage based approach. You are all over the place frankly.

For all the yardage we accrue we are underperforming getting the ball into the end zone.

Romo's career RZ completion % is 10% higher than Dak's. You can make whatever qualitative generalizations you like but it is what it is.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

But he got hurt. And he got hurt on 3 consecutive hits. That changes a whole lot.

Question. If Romo comes back and struggles badly. How long will you give him? Are his feelings, and your admirations for him, worth screwing team chemistry and wins up?

Your fearmongering about team chemistry is next to worthless to me. Your argument is you think Romo cannot take hits anymore. I am not convinced of that. If he gets hurt it's a moot point but if he is able to play he wins at a high rate too.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Turnover prone compared to what? Your hyperconservative ideal? Because it's not when compared to league average.

The team is leading the league in rushing TD and it's not even close. Dak's arm doesn't get the ball into the end zone. I am judging by his ability to throw into the end zone. Football outsiders is a yardage based approach. You are all over the place frankly.

For all the yardage we accrue we are underperforming getting the ball into the end zone.

Romo's career RZ completion % is 10% higher than Dak's. You can make whatever qualitative generalizations you like but it is what it is.

There's nothing conservative about my 'ideal.'

We're 6th in points scored...without Dez for the past 2 games. We are 2nd in points scored per drive and yards per drive. Dak is the 2nd most effective passer according to FootballOutsiders.com.

Just because we are a run focused team doesn't mean we are 'hyper-conservative.' If you're scoring as many points as we are and scoring at such an efficient rate per drive, you would be stupid to change things up. Efficiency does not equate to 'conservative.'

And Red Zone performance has a low correlation to a team's success or scoring ability. This is all based on QUANTITATIVE data. You just choose to ignore it because it doesn't suit your agenda of being obsequious to all things Romo.

I, for one, would rather have this offense than the pass happy offenses of 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011-2013. It might not put up those gaudy QB stats, but we'll win games and be a formidable team.





YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Why would he struggle? Does a hairline fracture in your vertebrae prevent you from handing off the football?

No, but that's not the only part of our running success.

The EE 60-yard TD was a perfect example.

We were killing the Bengals on stretch runs to the left and then bootlegs to the right. Dak can also do the opposite, bootleg left off a stretch run right.

The big part of this is not only can Dak run, but he is throwing effectively out of the bootleg.

So the Bengals set up the defense to play for that and the Cowboys run a inside zone trap up the middle and an enormous hole was opened and EE sprinted for the TD. That doesn't happen with Romo because he's not nearly as effective on the bootleg, especially with him coming off injury. And I don't think you would want Romo running many naked boots as it could leave him exposed to a hit.

Tough to defend what we have going right now. We're making big runs out on the perimeter and if teams crash down we can run a boot for even bigger yards. And if teams play for that...we can run that inside zone play and get big yards. And if they bring 8 or 9 into the box...we can throw out of that.

Then there's shotgun with the RPO's which Romo isn't going to do.

This isn't RG3 where teams weren't prepared for RPO's and had to figure out how to defend them and stop getting the linebackers to bite so hard on playfakes to leave wide open throws.

This is a QB that beats teams in the pocket by making pre-snap reads and going thru his progressions from under center and has been remarkably accurate from the pocket and on the run and can do it from under center or from the shotgun/pistol.

Until some performances change my mind, I don't see any reason to have Tony starting.





YR

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

I, for one, would rather have this offense than the pass happy offenses of 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011-2013. It might not put up those gaudy QB stats, but we'll win games and be a formidable team.





YR

Totally agree. I can't stand stats. All that matters are wins.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There's nothing conservative about my 'ideal.'

We're 6th in points scored...without Dez for the past 2 games. We are 2nd in points scored per drive and yards per drive. Dak is the 2nd most effective passer according to FootballOutsiders.com.

Just because we are a run focused team doesn't mean we are 'hyper-conservative.' If you're scoring as many points as we are and scoring at such an efficient rate per drive, you would be stupid to change things up. Efficiency does not equate to 'conservative.'

And Red Zone performance has a low correlation to a team's success or scoring ability. This is all based on QUANTITATIVE data. You just choose to ignore it because it doesn't suit your agenda of being obsequious to all things Romo.

I, for one, would rather have this offense than the pass happy offenses of 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011-2013. It might not put up those gaudy QB stats, but we'll win games and be a formidable team.

YR

So you have dropped the Romo is prone to turnovers argument.

You clearly didn't understand what I was saying about FO. IOW, they undervalue scoring. Continue to wave your hands at the ranking if it makes you feel better.

Your comment on RZ performance is new but acting like I didn't address it is fun I guess. It is also just an assertion. The notion that RZ performance is irrelevant to scoring is a nonstarter for me. Still doesn't mitigate that we are not getting the ball into the end zone off the pass in or out of the RZ.

No one is calling for the pass happy offenses of those years. This notion that Romo wouldn't continue running the ball and utilizing the running game and the OL is based on nothing. Still doesn't mean he cannot get us better looks and completions downfield better than Dak can when we do pass the ball.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

So you have dropped the Romo is prone to turnovers argument.

Nope. He's prone to turnovers.

You clearly didn't understand what I was saying about FO. IOW, they undervalue scoring. Continue to wave your hands at the ranking if it makes you feel better.

So, they 'undervalue' scoring when they are 6th in points/game and 2nd in scoring per drive?

That makes zero sense.

Your comment on RZ performance is new but acting like I didn't address it is fun I guess. It is also just an assertion.

It's backed by facts. All of the correlative Red Zone statistics you can think of compared to scoring and/or wins it does not hold a strong correlation.

It's not new either. FootballOutsiders.com has mentioned that for over 10 years and I saw the data on it before then.

The notion that RZ performance is irrelevant to scoring is a nonstarter for me. Still doesn't mitigate that we are not getting the ball into the end zone off the pass in or out of the RZ.

Who cares?

We are scoring efficiently and scoring often. And if you don't think Dak is a big reason for our running success, you're not paying attention.

Do I really care if Dak throws a perfect pass to Dez and Dez gets stopped at the 1 and we run it in on the next play instead of passing it in?

Why would I?

No one is calling for the pass happy offenses of those years. This notion that Romo wouldn't continue running the ball and utilizing the running game and the OL is based on nothing. Still doesn't mean he cannot get us better looks and completions downfield better than Dak can when we do pass the ball.

I never said Romo wouldn't use the running game as I didn't mention the 2014 offense.

However, that was then and this is now.

We are an extremely good running offense that can score a lot of points off a run based offense. This is in large part due to Dak's play. He has the ability to beat teams from the pocket, the ability to beat teams throwing the ball of the bootleg and keep defenses honest out of the shotgun. EE is a large part of it, too. So is the O-Line. And they're doing it without Dez which Tony had at his disposal in 2014.

All the while we're not turning the ball over.

I'm not into Jeff Fisher, grind it out for 20 points a game and win with defense and special teams. But, we're not doing that. We are a high scoring team that happens to be run focused. That has worked well in the past for other teams like the late 90's Broncos that won a couple of Super Bowls because nobody could stop Terrell Davis and John Elway.

With Romo in the game, it takes away our strengths of stretch zone runs, play action and RPO's.

So, no thanks Tony. Come back when you're needed. Hopefully that won't be an issue.





YR

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nope. He's prone to turnovers.



So, they 'undervalue' scoring when they are 6th in points/game and 2nd in scoring per drive?

That makes zero sense.



It's backed by facts. All of the correlative Red Zone statistics you can think of compared to scoring and/or wins it does not hold a strong correlation.

It's not new either. FootballOutsiders.com has mentioned that for over 10 years and I saw the data on it before then.



Who cares?

We are scoring efficiently and scoring often. And if you don't think Dak is a big reason for our running success, you're not paying attention.

Do I really care if Dak throws a perfect pass to Dez and Dez gets stopped at the 1 and we run it in on the next play instead of passing it in?

Why would I?




I never said Romo wouldn't use the running game as I didn't mention the 2014 offense.

However, that was then and this is now.

We are an extremely good running offense that can score a lot of points off a run based offense. This is in large part due to Dak's play. He has the ability to beat teams from the pocket, the ability to beat teams throwing the ball of the bootleg and keep defenses honest out of the shotgun. EE is a large part of it, too. So is the O-Line. And they're doing it without Dez which Tony had at his disposal in 2014.

All the while we're not turning the ball over.

I'm not into Jeff Fisher, grind it out for 20 points a game and win with defense and special teams. But, we're not doing that. We are a high scoring team that happens to be run focused. That has worked well in the past for other teams like the late 90's Broncos that won a couple of Super Bowls because nobody could stop Terrell Davis and John Elway.

With Romo in the game, it takes away our strengths of stretch zone runs, play action and RPO's.

So, no thanks Tony. Come back when you're needed. Hopefully that won't be an issue.





YR

Romo is only prone to turnovers relative to your ideal. Looking at Romo's efficiency stats particularly recently underlines this.

Given the amount of yardage we are generating we are not scoring efficiently.

If you would like to point to said facts/stats/etc I would be happy to consider them. Until that point all we have is an assertion.

You're right this is now ie after 2014. Your fear mongering is adorable though.

You like the dink and dunk offense we are running. I prefer Romo who attacks down the field. It is what it is.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Romo is only prone to turnovers relative to your ideal. Looking at Romo's efficiency stats particularly recently underlines this.

A look at Romo's DVOA (efficiency) ratings over the past years:

2007: 6th
2008: 11th
2009: 7th
2010: 10th
2011: 4th
2012: 10th
2013: 10th
2014: 3rd

So, he's mostly been in the range of 5th to 10th in ranking. Mainly because of his turnovers hold him back.

As I've said all along...I think Romo has been a good starting QB, but he's not elite because I consider elite to be in the top-4 at your position and looking at his efficiency shows that he's not there. He's reached the top-4, twice.

Given the amount of yardage we are generating we are not scoring efficiently.

We are 2nd in points *scored* per drive. I don't understand how that is inefficient.

The reason why we don't score even MORE points is our defense and special teams haven't given us the best field position.

We are 4th in TD's per drive, so your statement doesn't make any sense.

If you would like to point to said facts/stats/etc I would be happy to consider them.

I already have give you the stats. You just gleefully ignore them.

You like the dink and dunk offense we are running. I prefer Romo who attacks down the field. It is what it is.

I like winning and scoring points efficiently. We're doing that better now than we ever have under Romo. And we're doing it without Dez.





YR

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

A look at Romo's DVOA (efficiency) ratings over the past years:

2007: 6th
2008: 11th
2009: 7th
2010: 10th
2011: 4th
2012: 10th
2013: 10th
2014: 3rd

So, he's mostly been in the range of 5th to 10th in ranking. Mainly because of his turnovers hold him back.

As I've said all along...I think Romo has been a good starting QB, but he's not elite because I consider elite to be in the top-4 at your position and looking at his efficiency shows that he's not there. He's reached the top-4, twice.



We are 2nd in points *scored* per drive. I don't understand how that is inefficient.

The reason why we don't score even MORE points is our defense and special teams haven't given us the best field position.

We are 4th in TD's per drive, so your statement doesn't make any sense.



I already have give you the stats. You just gleefully ignore them.



I like winning and scoring points efficiently. We're doing that better now than we ever have under Romo. And we're doing it without Dez.





YR

You dropped prone to turnovers. You dropped the FO and scoring argument. You dropped red zone efficiency. You dropped the impact of the running game on scoring relative to Dak.

I don't ignore them. You don't understand how DVOA and yardage stats are derived and don't touch the argument about scoring.

I fail to see how a string of top 10 finishes including 3rd with the most recent cast is compelling.

 

[Cowboysfan917]

Dez stated today that he wants Romo back.

Dak stated today that it's Romo's team today.

Beasley caught sharp passes from a mobile Romo during the media session of practice.

The players want Tony back and they've been told he is coming back based on these 3 things today

 

[lqmac1]

When have we ever been a legit Super Bowl contender with Romo? We've been out of the first round ONCE.

Uhhhhh..... 2014?

 

[Clove]

Uhhhhh..... 2014?

Uhhhhh, no...

 

[Yakuza Rich]

You dropped prone to turnovers.

No, I didn't. He's prone to turnovers. Not sure how many times I have to say it.

You dropped the FO and scoring argument.

No, I didn't. I showed that the team is 2nd in points scored per drive, 6th in points/game and 4th in TD's per drive.

You dropped red zone efficiency.

I addressed it. It has a low statistical correlation to scoring and winning. And the offense under Dak (and w/o Dez) is scoring quite effectively. Why bring up an argument that you lost quite a while ago?

You dropped the impact of the running game on scoring relative to Dak.

Nope.

I've mentioned the impact that Dak has had on the running game. How he has passed effectively in the pocket, on the bootlegs and can keep the ball for himself, all making the job easier for EE and the O-Line. Romo is not as effective on bootlegs and running the ball like Dak.

I don't ignore them. You don't understand how DVOA and yardage stats are derived and don't touch the argument about scoring.

I fail to see how a string of top 10 finishes including 3rd with the most recent cast is compelling.

He's not an elite QB by the standard of being in the top-4 in his position. He's probably just outside the elite.

In the end, it's about winning and getting the offense to do what they are supposed to do...score points. That's what we have done. And we would score MORE points if the defense/special teams would get us advantageous field position. Being 2nd in points per drive, 4th in TD's per drive and NOT turning the ball over is about as much as one could ask for from an offense.

The only reason I would ever care for throwing for a TD over running for a TD is if the QB was on my Fantasy Football team. Otherwise we should just dismiss Aikman's time as a QB here because he didn't throw a lot of TD passes when he had Emmitt scoring them instead.





YR