Feds strike again

[RS12]

Plenty of sites still offering games etc. As long as there is demand somebody will fill it.

 

[TheCount]

so you tell me - what is the difference between physical vs virtual property?

I don't know about the rest of it but this is easy. If you steal someone's car, they no longer have a car. If you pirate a movie, the movie still exists and can still be profited from.

This is not to say piracy is acceptable, but there is a difference between piracy and theft. When you stream something, you don't even end up with a copy of it.

 

[bbwlover]

http://www.firstrowsports.eu/

You are GENIUS!!!!!!:laugh2:

 

[iceberg]

I don't know about the rest of it but this is easy. If you steal someone's car, they no longer have a car. If you pirate a movie, the movie still exists and can still be profited from.

This is not to say piracy is acceptable, but there is a difference between piracy and theft. When you stream something, you don't even end up with a copy of it.

but you can't steal a virtual car.

just because it got easy doesn't make respect die.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

Glad to see TNA mentioned.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Which means?

I was saying people buy what their televisions tell them to buy.

 

[TheCount]

but you can't steal a virtual car.

just because it got easy doesn't make respect die.

I'll be honest, I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. :laugh2:

Clarification, please?

 

[tupperware]

I'll be honest, I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. :laugh2:

Clarification, please?

He's saying that stealing remains stealing no matter the methods or avenues in which you take in doing it. In other words, downloading files over the internet gives you less of the "guilt" factor because you're downloading bits. However, it still doesn't make you any less culpable and you're still guilty of theft.

 

[Dallas]

He's saying that stealing remains stealing no matter the methods or avenues in which you take in doing it. In other words, downloading files over the internet gives you less of the "guilt" factor because you're downloading bits. However, it still doesn't make you any less culpable and you're still guilty of theft.

That shouldn't be to hard for people to understand. Maybe it is just those in NYC?

:laugh2:

 

[TheCount]

He's saying that stealing remains stealing no matter the methods or avenues in which you take in doing it. In other words, downloading files over the internet gives you less of the "guilt" factor because you're downloading bits. However, it still doesn't make you any less culpable and you're still guilty of theft.

Guilt has nothing to do with my statement. Theft and piracy are legally, and philosophically, different.

I also clearly stated I wasn't justifying either. At least I thought I did.

 

[tupperware]

Guilt has nothing to do with my statement. Theft and piracy are legally, and philosophically, different.

I also clearly stated I wasn't justifying either. At least I thought I did.

When I say "you" I mean in general, not specifically you.

At its core, piracy is theft, plain and simple.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Guilt has nothing to do with my statement. Theft and piracy are legally, and philosophically, different.

You are painting everything gray with that statement. Software / Music piracy is in fact theft. I've heard the statement that it can't be theft because the owner never loses the item that was stolen. That is a load of crap. While he does not lose a "copy" of it, he does in fact lose the revenue.

You can claim that you wouldn't have bought it otherwise, but the fact that you are using it makes the IP owners revenue loss valid. His software / music is being used without receiving earned revenue. You stole his value. Whether it's a $.99 song, or a $799 Adobe Photoshop. It's still unequivocally theft.

 

[TheCount]

You are painting everything gray with that statement. Software / Music piracy is in fact theft. I've heard the statement that it can't be theft because the owner never loses the item that was stolen. That is a load of crap. While he does not lose a "copy" of it, he does in fact lose the revenue.

You can claim that you wouldn't have bought it otherwise, but the fact that you are using it makes the IP owners revenue loss valid. His software / music is being used without receiving earned revenue. You stole his value. Whether it's a $.99 song, or a $799 Adobe Photoshop. It's still unequivocally theft.

I don't know how else to state this. By the courts that govern the country most of us live in and the laws we have all agreed to live by, piracy and theft are not the same thing. I'm not stating my opinion, although my opinion is the same, I'm stating a fact.

In the way killing a human being and killing a dog are different under the law. You can say someone "murdered a dog" if you wish, but it's still not actually murder. You're not going to get 25 to life for killing a dog, nor should you, and that's coming from a dog lover.

Whether or not someone loses revenue over piracy is also debatable, you are making the assumption that same person would have purchased said IP if they hadn't pirated it, which often isn't the case.

Then there's the issue of streaming, which is still piracy but philosophically raises another debate entirely.

My problem isn't with the morality of piracy vs theft, I don't believe anyone should do either. But you simply can not classify them as the same, the world is different now than it was and the idea that you can just neatly file new age crimes under old laws could have more repercussions than most people bother to consider.

 

[iceberg]

I'll be honest, I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. :laugh2:

Clarification, please?

when you say you download something it can still be sold - why?

i mean you can download it, why would ANYONE now buy it? to say i can still sell something you "steal" is just insane to me.

 

[iceberg]

I don't know how else to state this. By the courts that govern the country most of us live in and the laws we have all agreed to live by, piracy and theft are not the same thing. I'm not stating my opinion, although my opinion is the same, I'm stating a fact.

In the way killing a human being and killing a dog are different under the law. You can say someone "murdered a dog" if you wish, but it's still not actually murder. You're not going to get 25 to life for killing a dog, nor should you, and that's coming from a dog lover.

Whether or not someone loses revenue over piracy is also debatable, you are making the assumption that same person would have purchased said IP if they hadn't pirated it, which often isn't the case.

Then there's the issue of streaming, which is still piracy but philosophically raises another debate entirely.

My problem isn't with the morality of piracy vs theft, I don't believe anyone should do either. But you simply can not classify them as the same, the world is different now than it was and the idea that you can just neatly file new age crimes under old laws could have more repercussions than most people bother to consider.

so? just because you'd not buy it otherwise means it's ok to steal it? if you don't want to pay for what you use, simply don't use it.

 

[Dallas]

so? just because you'd not buy it otherwise means it's ok to steal it? if you don't want to pay for what you use, simply don't use it.

What a strange way to justify it by the poster. I don't get Counts little spin at all.


Not surprised though. Much of our society now is all about get what you can get however you can get it and so what about anyone in between.

I got mine..


IB, you get yours yet?

This is just getting stranger and stranger seeing how folks dance this tight rope of piracy/thievery or whatever definition smiley you put on it to make yourself feel better.



So basically hes saying we need to throw away our laws and write new ones. A little more self interpretation from the bench by our judges so to speak.

HUGE PROBLEM right there...but not suprised to read it.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

so? just because you'd not buy it otherwise means it's ok to steal it? if you don't want to pay for what you use, simply don't use it.

Ever hear of a library? I just rented (used) two DVDs. And get this (are you sitting down?) it was free. And I didn't steal it. I used it and didn't pay for it. Why doesn't the library charge me? They have books, DVDs, video games, music, etc.

To me, the internet is one big massive free library. The checkout process is all that differs. If it is out there on the internet, I can download it and use it as I wish in my opinion. I just can't sell it without permission.

 

[TheCount]

when you say you download something it can still be sold - why?

i mean you can download it, why would ANYONE now buy it? to say i can still sell something you "steal" is just insane to me.

Okay. I'm going to go over this one last time.

I design and sell chairs.

Example A: I purchase the materials, create one and list it for sale. Three people show interest. One of them decides they don't want to pay for it and steals the chair. I now have nothing to sell the other two who aren't thieves.

Example B: On the other hand, I have three people that are interested in my chair design. One of them decides they'd rather pirate the design and make a knockoff. They hack my computer and steal the design. The other two do things the right way and license the design.

In Example A, I've made no money and will not do so unless I make more chairs. In Example B, I've made money without spending another dime.

That's the difference between physical theft and IP theft, and that's the reason they can't be classified as the same thing.

I'm sure you know all this and are just being difficult, but my point is a pretty simple one if you'd just allow me to make it. If you want to continue to pretend what I'm saying is incomprehensible, feel free.

so? just because you'd not buy it otherwise means it's ok to steal it? if you don't want to pay for what you use, simply don't use it.

You're just being belligerent now. At what point have I said it's okay to steal anything? You two will never get anywhere in your argument because you're not even willing to take a step back and discuss it, you just want to take a sledgehammer to a very complex conversation.

 

[tupperware]

Okay. I'm going to go over this one last time.

I design and sell chairs.

Example A: I purchase the materials, create one and list it for sale. Three people show interest. One of them decides they don't want to pay for it and steals the chair. I now have nothing to sell the other two who aren't thieves.

Example B: On the other hand, I have three people that are interested in my chair design. One of them decides they'd rather pirate the design and make a knockoff. They hack my computer and steal the design. The other two do things the right way and license the design.

In Example A, I've made no money and will not do so unless I make more chairs. In Example B, I've made money without spending another dime.

That's the difference between physical theft and IP theft, and that's the reason they can't be classified as the same thing.

I'm sure you know all this and are just being difficult, but my point is a pretty simple one if you'd just allow me to make it. If you want to continue to pretend what I'm saying is incomprehensible, feel free.




You're just being belligerent now. At what point have I said it's okay to steal anything? You two will never get anywhere in your argument because you're not even willing to take a step back and discuss it, you just want to take a sledgehammer to a very complex conversation.

I'm trying to figure out what you're trying to say. Are the two situations different? Sure.. they're different. I don't know how anyone could see that they're not. Just because someone is not losing physical items does not mean that the person benefiting from that free software or whatever other digital good it is, isn't stealing.

As for the impact on the seller, that's still up in the air. You're still stealing though.

 

[iceberg]

Ever hear of a library? I just rented (used) two DVDs. And get this (are you sitting down?) it was free. And I didn't steal it. I used it and didn't pay for it. Why doesn't the library charge me? They have books, DVDs, video games, music, etc.

To me, the internet is one big massive free library. The checkout process is all that differs. If it is out there on the internet, I can download it and use it as I wish in my opinion. I just can't sell it without permission.

it's the librarys job to provide that to you under any agreements they may have made.

that mentality is just butt-nugget stupid dude. you have NO right to my content just because we both happen to be on the internet. if i make my content available then that's my call and my call only.

if you think there are NOT laws protecting IP - then tell me this, how come you can only post the beginning of an article vs. the entire article in here?

if i put something up for sale on my website you have no right to download it for free.

damn the entitlement generation sucks.