Fire Zimmer Now!!!

[Mike 1967]

Hostile, it is futile arguing will these people. They remind me of my burro, Pedro. You see, Pedro, he is one stubborn mule. I once fed him carrots from Walmart and it upset his stomach. Now Pedro, he refuses to take carrots from me. He only wants carrots from my father, Pablo. He refuses to even look at the carrots I try to feed him even though they are the same savory carrots (bought from Simon David) he receives from my father. No matter how hard I try and convince him, Pedro will always believe that I will feed him bad carrots even though I have improved their quality.

Let those that question Zimmer continue to believe like Pedro.

Your solution with your hard headed burro is simple.

Simply tie Pedro up and stop feeding him. Offer him carrots from your hand several times a day.

Eventually Pedro's hunger will overshadow his fear from the memory of the bad carrots.

Once he starts taking carrots from your hand again, make sure and feed him several times over a couple of days before you return him back to his regular feeding regimen.

 

[SuspectCorner]

Absolutely 100% incorrect. Not one person who has debated with you in this thread has said Parcells doesn't deserve credit. Not one single, solitary person. You on the other hand are saying Zimmer deserves little to none. To the point of you have him fired, when anyone can see he clearly isn't.

So, you're essentially saying that Bill Belicheck, Marvin Lewis, Gregg Williams, no one else in the NFL could successfully transition the Cowboys from a 4-3 to a 3-4?

There's at least 1 other guy who can and that is apparently Mike Zimmer because he's done it. At Parcells' direction, yes. I'll grant you that. But the task was still his. A blueprint without someone to make it come to life is just paper.

No one is so brilliant that they can tell you something and with no effort on your own you make it succeed. Zimmer must be doing something right.

well said. a plan without execution has little, if any, tangible value.

while Parcells is most definitely the architect of the current Dallas defense, the foreman charged with seeing it to fruition is Zimmer. they didn't give MZ the headset to start a fashion trend.

efforts to minimize his impact on the defense are are so contrary to visual evidence and sheer common sense - they border on the ridiculous... and are obviously emotionally driven.

 

[Kilyin]

Parcells should be getting the credit for our Defense since he is the one who is really running it. Parcells did not want Henson or Romo running our offense cuz they had no experience and did not wanna go through some years till they were good. He went with Bledsoe cuz Bledsoe has been around awhile and is a good proven QB.

The same for Zimmer. Zimmer sucked anyways. But Zimmer is a rookie with no experience in the 3-4. So like Parcells is not gonna let a rookie QB run this offense he aint gonna let some rookie to the 3-4 run our D.

I think BP let Zimmer have a chance at first but when he saw how totally lost he was that is when BP took over and that is why you see a much better D now.

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Where art thou Dom Capers?

 

[WoodysGirl]

Where art thou Dom Capers?

barely holding his head above the nasty bayou waters in Houston... :

 

[Mike 1967]

well said. a plan without execution has little, if any, tangible value.

while Parcells is most definitely the architect of the current Dallas defense, the foreman charged with seeing it to fruition is Zimmer. they didn't give MZ the headset to start a fashion trend.

efforts to minimize his impact on the defense are are so contrary to visual evidence and sheer common sense - they border on the ridiculous... and are obviously emotionally driven.

AND...

efforts to maximize his impact on this defense are equally as contrary to visual evidence and sheer common sense - they border on the ridiculous....and are obviously emotionally driven

If the current defense was a Cake, then PArcells is the Flour and Zimmer is the sugar. And the instructions for making the cake would call out for 20 parts flour and 3 parts sugar. The cake may not be as good without the sugar...but....without the flour all you have is a lump of sugar. :

 

[Mike 1967]

I didn't realize that starting this thread would cause such a reaction on this board... But I like it. My main reason for this thread was that I noticed that last year and earlier this year, Zimmer was getting 99% of the blame for the defenses deficiencies. Now that things seem to have been turned around, Big Bill seems to be getting all the credit. I belive that the truth is some where in the middle. I know it's Parcell's scheme but Zim has to do the game planning, watch the film and call the defensive signals as the game unfolds. There is no way in hell that Bill can Micro-manage all aspects of a game. There are too many things going on at game time. I'm not a expert but I believe a good head coach puts a team in the best position to win by surrounding himself with good coaches and players. Then he should watch over them, making sure
his scheme is being executed, but stay far away enough not to undermine their authority.

Personally I do not feel that Zimmer is to blame for the deficiencies of last years defense. He inherited the system and the players....I also suspect that he had a limited role in selecting personnel.

And for the same reasons, I do not necessarily give him a large amount of credit of the success that the defense had in previous years. That success could have simply been an hold over from the Campo regime.

If Zimmer had been been a DC that was hired in separate from the Campo regime...and if he had brought his very own blue brint to the Defense ... then I would lay more blame or credit at his feet.

But at the end of the day...I can't say that it was Zimmers fault. All I can say is that we needed a change in the defense.

But If you are saying that this years success is in the middle between Parcells and Zimmer...then I would stongly disagree.

I would put it more at 80% Parcells and 20% Zimmer. And..that would be a very generous percentage to give Zimmer.

 

[Trip]

Now we go back to your S.O.P. analogy.

A department can't have success without proper procedures in place.

A department also can't have success without enforcement of those procedures.

The procedures are nothing without the implemenatation and enforcement, the enforcement is nothing without the procedures. They are both necessary for success.

Who's to say one is 80% and one is 20%? You need both.

There are other defensive coordinators that Dallas could have success with. There are other defensive-minded head coaches that Dallas could have success with. Right now, we have Parcells and Zimmer, and it's working.

 

[Compacity]

I think that Mike Zimmer is a good Defensive Cordinator, he just got to learn a new system, which Zimmer is use to the 4-3 and he converting over to the 3-4...

 

[Mike 1967]

Now we go back to your S.O.P. analogy.

A department can't have success without proper procedures in place.

A department also can't have success without enforcement of those procedures.

The procedures are nothing without the implemenatation and enforcement, the enforcement is nothing without the procedures. They are both necessary for success.

Who's to say one is 80% and one is 20%? You need both.

There are other defensive coordinators that Dallas could have success with. There are other defensive-minded head coaches that Dallas could have success with. Right now, we have Parcells and Zimmer, and it's working.

Yes...you need both. But I believe that one is harder to find than the other. And I also believe, that in this specific situation, one is more valueable than the other.

And this particular instance (Cowboys Defense) I would use the following logic to support my position.

(1) There are 2 primary reasons behind the success of this team: Change to the 3-4 and selection of the personnel.
(2) We would not be switching to the 3-4 if Parcells was not in the mix.
(3) We would still be switching to the 3-4 if Zimmer was not in the mix.

So without Parcells the changes do not occur. The same cannot be said for Zimmer. Unless one would argue that the team would go forward with a completely new defensive philosophy without having a HC or DC that had a solid history in that scheme.

 

[Mike 1967]

I think that Mike Zimmer is a good Defensive Cordinator, he just got to learn a new system, which Zimmer is use to the 4-3 and he converting over to the 3-4...

Agreed

And..Zimmer will have a very unique resume in that he will be a DC that has a record of success with both the 3-4...and the 4-3.

I believe that this experience could possibly make him a very formidable DC and/or HC in the future.

 

[Compacity]

Agreed

And..Zimmer will have a very unique resume in that he will be a DC that has a record of success with both the 3-4...and the 4-3.

I believe that this experience could possibly make him a very formidable DC and/or HC in the future.

nuff said...

 

[Doomsday]

His defense has given up 4 Touchdowns in the last 5 games!!! Man we could do so much better.

Yea I agree hes never going to grasp a 3-4 defense. :laugh1:

 

[Trip]

Yes...you need both. But I believe that one is harder to find than the other. And I also believe, that in this specific situation, one is more valueable than the other.

And this particular instance (Cowboys Defense) I would use the following logic to support my position.

(1) There are 2 primary reasons behind the success of this team: Change to the 3-4 and selection of the personnel.
(2) We would not be switching to the 3-4 if Parcells was not in the mix.
(3) We would still be switching to the 3-4 if Zimmer was not in the mix.

So without Parcells the changes do not occur. The same cannot be said for Zimmer. Unless one would argue that the team would go forward with a completely new defensive philosophy without having a HC or DC that had a solid history in that scheme.

Switching to the 3-4 is not the primary reason for the success of this defense.

 

[Trip]

Agreed

And..Zimmer will have a very unique resume in that he will be a DC that has a record of success with both the 3-4...and the 4-3.

I believe that this experience could possibly make him a very formidable DC and/or HC in the future.

He's already a very formidable DC. You thinks he's just fetching water and reminding people they need to listen to Parcells?

 

[Trip]

Your solution with your hard headed burro is simple.

Simply tie Pedro up and stop feeding him. Offer him carrots from your hand several times a day.

Eventually Pedro's hunger will overshadow his fear from the memory of the bad carrots.

Once he starts taking carrots from your hand again, make sure and feed him several times over a couple of days before you return him back to his regular feeding regimen.

But burro's can be very hard headed.

That burro believes you tried to cause him pain, even though he's not thinking logically, he blames you.

When you tie up the burro and begin to starve him, he will just believe this is another of your pain-causing tactics.

The burro will hold out as long as he possibly can, until no other solution can be found, then the burro will finally eat your carrots.

And in the end, the burro will believe it is you that have changed.

The hard-headed burro won't be wrong.

 

[Mike 1967]

You thinks he's just fetching water and reminding people they need to listen to Parcells?

......Nope... I don't

 

[Mike 1967]

But burro's can be very hard headed.

That burro believes you tried to cause him pain, even though he's not thinking logically, he blames you.

When you tie up the burro and begin to starve him, he will just believe this is another of your pain-causing tactics.

The burro will hold out as long as he possibly can, until no other solution can be found, then the burro will finally eat your carrots.

And in the end, the burro will believe it is you that have changed.

The hard-headed burro won't be wrong.

Burro's are smarter then I realized.

 

[Mike 1967]

Switching to the 3-4 is not the primary reason for the success of this defense.

I listed two primary reasons. Personnel selection and the 3-4. I did not go into the personnel selection.

but..same logic applies. We would have selected the same folks if Zimmer was not here. We would not have selected the same folks if Parcells was not here.

In your opinion...what is the primary reason for the success of the defense besides the scheme overhaul and the personnel selection ?

 

[Mike 1967]

Yea I agree hes never going to grasp a 3-4 defense. :laugh1:

That would be stupid. So would anyone who made that statement.

Fortunately for Zimmer he agreed to learn a new system....or he would not be here.

 

[Seven]

Parcells should be getting the credit for our Defense since he is the one who is really running it. Parcells did not want Henson or Romo running our offense cuz they had no experience and did not wanna go through some years till they were good. He went with Bledsoe cuz Bledsoe has been around awhile and is a good proven QB.

The same for Zimmer. Zimmer sucked anyways. But Zimmer is a rookie with no experience in the 3-4. So like Parcells is not gonna let a rookie QB run this offense he aint gonna let some rookie to the 3-4 run our D.

I think BP let Zimmer have a chance at first but when he saw how totally lost he was that is when BP took over and that is why you see a much better D now.

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

When I watch the games I see Parcells and Peyton not ten feet apart hemmin' and hawin' over the offensive plays. When I watch the games I see Zimmer standing alone, calling the defensive plays. Not once have I seen Parcells on the sidelines hemmin' an hawin' with Zimmer cause he feels he isn't doing his job. This I see with my own eyes. Concrete evidence. It's not something in my fantasy mind that allows me to take comfort, in yet another false avenue, as to save face on being wrong about Zimmer. BP calling the defense was too easy to latch on to, even for you. I don't remember any poster asking you to shut it up but rather, back it up. If you cannot, then by all means please stop torturing us with your drivel which is driven by hatred and with very little knowledge.