Fish Show: 2 Scouts say Cowboys coaches asking too much of Dak

[boysfanindc]

I believe this front office has NEVER understood what it had in Dak or Romo. Both are/were good but NOT great QBs. Good enough to get a team to the playoffs, but NOT ELITE enough to carry a team through the playoffs on their own. Jerry has never understood this. Still doesn’t.

Honestly, there’s only 2 current QBs in this league capable of carrying a team deep in the playoffs. Mahomes and Burrow. That’s it. Only 2.

What Dak and Romo need/needed are exactly what a guy like Joe Flacco or Russell Wilson needed: Either a great defense and/or a great running game. At least one is needed, and if it’s a great running game, you have to have at least a good defense. Romo’s best season was 2014 when we led the league in rushing

Flacco won a SB with the ravens and made it to several AFC championship games with a great defense. Wilson won two NFC championships and a SB with a great defense and a top 5 running game. We’ve seen what Wilson is without it.

Yes, Dak deserves some blame for our playoff failures. For sure sure. But those blaming him alone are IMO failing to see the bigger issue of this team’s challenges. Unless you have Mahomes or Burrow, you can’t expect a QB to carry you alone. “Earth to Jerry”……

Correct, Dak is a good QB that requires a formidable D and a very good running game to get to the promised land like most QB's. Knowing he is not Mahomes or Burrows and you need those other elements, you can not pay him like a top 2 QB.

I hope this is what our brain trust has finally figured out at least it has put them on the fence about how that works.

If he would sign for $40/45M APY on a 5 year contract (which he won't) I would sign him tomorrow as it would allow you to build those other elements around him. But if you pay him what he wants you can't afford those other things consistently.

Hence the rock and the hard place.

 

[fivetwos]

I believe this front office has NEVER understood what it had in Dak or Romo. Both are/were good but NOT great QBs. Good enough to get a team to the playoffs, but NOT ELITE enough to carry a team through the playoffs on their own. Jerry has never understood this. Still doesn’t.

Honestly, there’s only 2 current QBs in this league capable of carrying a team deep in the playoffs. Mahomes and Burrow. That’s it. Only 2.

What Dak and Romo need/needed are exactly what a guy like Joe Flacco or Russell Wilson needed: Either a great defense and/or a great running game. At least one is needed, and if it’s a great running game, you have to have at least a good defense. Romo’s best season was 2014 when we led the league in rushing

Flacco won a SB with the ravens and made it to several AFC championship games with a great defense. Wilson won two NFC championships and a SB with a great defense and a top 5 running game. We’ve seen what Wilson is without it.

Yes, Dak deserves some blame for our playoff failures. For sure sure. But those blaming him alone are IMO failing to see the bigger issue of this team’s challenges. Unless you have Mahomes or Burrow, you can’t expect a QB to carry you alone. “Earth to Jerry”……

I think you’re exactly right, but it doesn’t stop at the QBs. They overrate just about everyone and always have.

Why is that? Because they aren’t qualified to make certain evaluations on their own. They play the role of GM for the camera, but someone else writes the script.

Those script writers are coaches and scouts who are not going to give themselves bad evaluations, but quite the opposite.

You then end up with situations like the kid saying ‘why should we pay 10m a year for (insert name of vet free agent) when (insert name of recent 5th round pick) is on the verge of greatness?’

They remain loyal to guys willing to play along with the sham regardless of the results.

 

[Flamma]

Mediocre and a need-to-be-carried QB can only take you so far.
The End..................of Dak!

Did you watch the video. Within the first 10 minutes he talks about how scouts said they were asking too much from Dak starting in 2017. I'm pretty sure that's when you started picking up on him being limited. That's why I call you patient zero. The first.

I don't dislike Dak as much as you do, but out on him getting paid anywhere near 40M again, let alone 55M. When we'll win maybe 1 or 2 less games with QBs like Mayfield and Cooper Rush.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

If Dak was a vet in 2016 and had the exact same season he did for the Cowboys he would be Ryan Fitzpatrick right now.

But because he was a rookie Jerry got fooled.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

If Dak was a vet in 2016 and had the exact same season he did for the Cowboys he would be Ryan Fitzpatrick right now.

But because he was a rookie Jerry got fooled.

and so did everybody else.

hindsight is 20/20. everyone is nostradamous after the fact.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

and so did everybody else.

hindsight is 20/20. everyone is nostradamous after the fact.

Who is everybody else?

 

[Whiskey Cowboy]

We've gone through this ad nauseam, even if we find a team, it's not in Dak's interest to waive the NTC. He's prepared to sit on the bench for a year (even if Jerry was brave enough to bench him....which he's not), he'll then hit the 2025 free agency based on his 2023 years work (and France will sell him as being fresh due to having a rest).

It's been discussed, but not resolved. How does his value increase by being benched for subpar results? Have we forgotten he led the league in interceptions in 22, despite missing 5 games? Or that the team, not once, but twice has had to trade for high end receivers because he couldn't cut it without elite talent?

Right now his value is through the roof. He's coming off of a near MVP campaign where he looked better than he ever has. What happens if that production dips? Remember, he's lost two starting linemen, and the guys replacing them are rookies that are switching positions. He's lost his starting RB, who was replaced by a guy that was cast away due to subpar results. He's lost his #3 receiver, who looks to be replaced by a guy that did nothing his rookie season, and didn't light the world on fire in year two.

If the plan is to wait until free agency, I'm sure he already understands the risks. The team lost a ton of talent, and didn't do much to replace it. Not a great sign for a guy that's struggled with lesser talent around him. These scouts are saying he's being asked to do too much. What happens this season when he's asked to do more...or worse, isn't given the opportunity to play and prove that the new team is getting the guy from 23, and not 22?

If he accepts a trade this season, the new team will most certainly work out a new deal before the ink is dry. He has a better shot at finding that massive contract that he's looking for this year, and he knows it. His agent knows it. Jerry Jones knows it too. I'm not saying he will be traded, or he will see the bench, but we need to stop pretending that waiting until FA next season is a slam dunk sure thing when history has shown that Dak could easily regress and lower his value substantially with the team he's been tasked to lead.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

Did you watch the video. Within the first 10 minutes he talks about how scouts said they were asking too much from Dak starting in 2017. I'm pretty sure that's when you started picking up on him being limited. That's why I call you patient zero. The first.

I don't dislike Dak as much as you do, but out on him getting paid anywhere near 40M again, let alone 55M. When we'll win maybe 1 or 2 less games with QBs like Mayfield and Cooper Rush.

I have no personal feelings concerning the man Dak either way.
What you have here is a player who knows he is underqualified to have the most prestigious Job in the NFL.
Hence the panic attacks vs Good teams and the playoffs.
My main concern and objective is for my beloved Cowboys to raise # 6 and since 2017 what I saw from Dak was a need to be carried QB.
It's about TALENT and unfortunately, no matter how great Dak's PR team sells him, he falls short at the end of the day.
Time to move on as after 8 seasons the writing is on the wall that Dak's days are ending.

 

[jaythecowboy]

We already saw what Cousins got and Dak would be able to command more than that even if he has a dropoff this year.

 

[Flamma]

We already saw what Cousins got and Dak would be able to command more than that even if he has a dropoff this year.

Agreed. But neither Cousins or Dak are ever going to sniff a SB. Not unless they get on one of the few teams that try to stack a roster.

 

[NotForLong]

We already saw what Cousins got and Dak would be able to command more than that even if he has a dropoff this year.

I pity that fan base

 

[morat1959]

Stop comparing him to Brady and Rodgers. Dak is neither of those guys. But the fact we can only name 3 guys like them, including Mahomes, tells you the chances of finding a QB to compare to them is slim to none, so let's stop pretending cutting Dak automatically results in the next HoF QB playing in Dallas. And of the 3, 1 is retired, 1 is almost retired and over 40. Guy like that are exceedingly rare.

In the meantime, worse QBs than Dak have won Super Bowls. Dak can too, but not for the Cowboys because the truth is Jerry never goes all in to win. Every year we watch teams sign top tier free agents to plug gaps in their rosters while the Cowboys look for the trash other teams discard. Then they sell us the you-know-what sandwich that they have a team of stars, every draft pick is a steal, and their goal is the Super Bowl. We are witnessing it all again now with the vidoes of our draft picks playing like future hall of famers as each play is cherry picked to show how great the guys is.

This year we entered the off-season with two glaring problems, we can't run the football and we can't stop the run. We lost Pollard to free agency, and who did the Cowboys sign to replace him? Royce Freeman and Zeke. Where is the improvement? How about on defense. We let 4 defensive linemen go to free agency, including the best run stopping DT on the team. To replace them? A second round draft pick that I can't really complain about, and a 7th round draft pick. We will enter the 2024 season with the same 2 problems we had last year, plus, we have no #2 WR.

Dak is not the problem, unless he holds the team up for a $60 million contract. The problem is the rest of the roster isn't good enough to win and it is not good enough to win because Jerry is not willing to go "all in", ever. It has nothing to do with the salary CAP.

We don’t need a HOF QB. We need a QB who’s not light between the ears.

 

[Verdict]

They've given him little, they've given him lots, and he still can't get it done. So if that's "who he is" (and it is), then you move on. The only thing he hasn't had is great coaching, and he's not getting that here, ever.

How do you ask “too much” of your highest paid player, by far on the roster? Shouldn’t that player be elevating your team and literally picking up and carrying your team on his back?

How about just not making back breaking interceptions? Is that asking too much for Dak to just take good care of the football and not turn it over?

 

[Verdict]

We don’t need a HOF QB. We need a QB who’s not light between the ears.

A QB that has average physical metrics but can process the game mentally quickly and who takes good care of the football can win you a SB. Trent Dilfer was nothing special but he did take care of the football and rode his team all the way to winning the SB.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

How do you ask “too much” of your highest paid player, by far on the roster? Shouldn’t that player be elevating your team and literally picking up and carrying your team on his back?

How about just not making back breaking interceptions? Is that asking too much for Dak to just take good care of the football and not turn it over?

MVP RUNNER UP BABY!

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

A QB that has average physical metrics but can process the game mentally quickly and who takes good care of the football can win you a SB. Trent Dilfer was nothing special but he did take care of the football and rode his team all the way to winning the SB.

Trent Dilfer never confused himself with Brett Farve.

That's the Dak problem.

Dak think he's Mahomes.

 

[CowboyStar88]

That's alright, just don't be moaning and groaning about another Dak post.

He wrote that not realizing he’s a willing participant in the discussions. That’s not what I would define as watching.

 

[charron]

What exactly too much? Dak has only had 1 season where they didn't give him a superstar receiver and 8 games in they got cooper. Dak gets plenty of offensive help. Defenses haven't been great for his whole career but they've been pretty good the last few years and we're getting the same results. QB's are asked to do alot. Hardest position in sports in part because of this.

 

[DandyDon52]

The only offense Dak could have some success with is a system that gets him out of the pocket 75% of passing downs. Like Linehan designed.
He's not mobile since the Injury so that's out.
Moore developed a offense using quick horizontal routes featuring CeeDee and Pollards quickness and cutting ability to break open early and roll up huge RAC. MM and Schottenheimer have continued to develop this . However it is defensable with above average talent. Dak is limited by a below average arm and inconsistent accuracy. Especially under pressure. They are not asking Dak to be Aaron or Brady, every QB in the NFL has to compete against difficult defenses, Dak cannot .

If preforming in the NFL against decent defenses is asking too much? I'm sorry but that's life.

in 2016 they had a run heavy offense with a vg RB, and they had success.
Then they started with the more pass heavy offense, trying to make dak something he isnt.
This is basically what the scouts are suggesting. Dak isnt good in pass heavy, and neither is MM.

Now this year they have degraded the rb situation and run offense, so dak will have to pass more.
That doesnt bode success.
The problem is jerry and MM want a big passing game, and dont care about a good run game, so it can work against the lesser teams,
but not in the playoffs.

I think coaching is dallas biggest problem not dak.
Dak isnt great but he is ok avg qb.
Unless jerry gets better coaches, (not zimmer) they will continue to struggle, no matter who the qb is.
I think lance will be much worse than dak, rush would be ok, but with these bozo coaches and MM he cant win in playoffs either.

I would like to see a change at qb, (and at HC) but lance isnt the answer, and the jones boys cant pick a good qb if their life depended on it.
Dak is too expensive to keep, so they would be better to get a cheap one, IF they will spend the money they save on FA to make the team
better.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

What exactly too much? Dak has only had 1 season where they didn't give him a superstar receiver and 8 games in they got cooper. Dak gets plenty of offensive help. Defenses haven't been great for his whole career but they've been pretty good the last few years and we're getting the same results. QB's are asked to do alot. Hardest position in sports in part because of this.

And at the end of the day the defense being horrible or great has zero effect on Dak's personal play.

Dak is allowed to play well regardless of how our defense plays.