For those who don't think Drew makes the HOF

alpha said:
Can't make these comparisons in a vacuum. Again, it's all about context.

First, consider their relative supporting casts (Culpepper w/o Moss is a textbook example). The fact the Bills OL set a league record for sacks given up over the three year period Drew played in Buffalo is very relevent to this disussion, for example. (Now recall what Aikman had to work with, and I don't mean Emmitt/Michael/Jay/Moose/etc.)

Second, you're asking us to compare HOF QBs in their prime (Marino, Young, Favre, Elway, Aikman, Kelly) to a rookie who was thrown to the wolves in '93 on a 2-14 team (several years before Glenn/Martin joined him, I might add). Elway and Marino were 10 year vets Drew's rookie season. Kelly and Young were 8 year vets.

Still, in just his second year in the league ('94) - when all six of the QB's on your list were still playing - Bledsoe finished #1 in completions and yards and #4 in passing TDs (just two years removed from a 2-14 NE team, doing so without the help of Terry Glenn or Curtis Martin). And he did it again in '96 and '97 (#1/#2 completions, #3/#3 yards, #4/#3 TDs).

As for your second list of contemporary signal callers, I take Bledsoe over Vick and Culpepper right now, and to be fair, Drew never had a supporting cast as talented as McNabb and Brady are/have been playing with. All things considered, Drew stacks up reasonably well with some pretty heady company, IMHO.
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What I'm saying is that at no time in his career would you likely say he was top 5 in the NFL as far as impact. That isn't a vacuum.
 
ABQCOWBOY said:
I would think that Mark Brunell would get some consideration as well. In fact, I would probably throw in Trent Green and Possibly Randle Cunningham, as well.

Now, some might question Cunningham and based on statistics alone, I could understand why. However, Cunningham did change the game. Cunningham, in his prime, was a better QB then Vick IMO. He was the first of the Black Mobile QBs IMO. There was Moon but he was not the mobile QB in vogue today IMO. Rather, an extremely talented Passer who could move around.

Brunell because, while he doesn't have over powering yardage numbers, his TO ratio is really good. His QB ratio is there, his completion percentage is there. If he has a couple of good seasons, he will get consideration.

If Trent Green wins a championship, his odds increase a great deal, IMO. nobody talks about this guy but the numbers he is putting up are there. He's got 7 years in the league. If he plays another 5 years, He will have 40,000 yards. He is at 60% cmp now and getting better. His QB rating is 87.9 now. He averages out to 243 TDs against 150 INTs. These numbers, from a quality stand point, are going to compare very favorably with anybodies.
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I don't think Green has 5 years left in him. If he does, they won't be at the level of the past 3 years. Turned into a good QB.

Still amazes me that every team passed on Warren Moon coming out of college. Even as a late round pick. Sure there were better QBs than him during the same era, but there are many teams that could have used him.
 
We're different than other teams. You don't QB the Cowboys to be a HOF'er. You QB the Cowboys to win Championships. I don't care if he throws for 100,000 yds. If he don't win us a SB, his time here was a failure. Win and your in!
 
dbair1967 said:
throwing for 50,000 yds (if Bledsoe does) to me is alot more impressive than running for 10,000 when you average less than 4.0 yds per carry

David
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Well if Bledsoe gets 9,000 more yards to get to that 50,000 mark, it'll put him in a rarer category than George. That milestone is a little more impressive to me, but not a lot. If you want to talk averages, his averages (comp. %, TD/int ratio, YPA, passer rating) aren't that good either.
 
Hostile said:
What I'm saying is that at no time in his career would you likely say he was top 5 in the NFL as far as impact. That isn't a vacuum.
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That's a fair and valid opinion. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. We just disagree.

I would include Bledsoe in my top-five in '94, '96 and '97, and possibly '02. Again, when I consider the relative talent of each QB's supporting cast, I am not simply looking at the raw numbers alone, but at what each was able to accomplish relative to what/who they had to work with, as well. That's what I consider true impact.
 
alpha said:
That's a fair and valid opinion. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. We just disagree.

I would include Bledsoe in my top-five in '94, '96 and '97, and possibly '02. Again, when I consider the relative talent of each QB's supporting cast, I am not simply looking at the raw numbers alone, but at what each was able to accomplish relative to what/who they had to work with, as well. That's what I consider true impact.
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In a given year, yes. But if you do that then you have to also give top 5 status to someone like Scott Mitchell. He had one year that was out of this world.

I wouldn't have had him as a top 5 QB anywhere but fantasy football.
 
Hostile said:
In a given year, yes. But if you do that then you have to also give top 5 status to someone like Scott Mitchell. He had one year that was out of this world.

I wouldn't have had him as a top 5 QB anywhere but fantasy football.
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Well then, I guess Drew has no shot at the Hall after all. ;)

I'm betting Mitchell didn't do it four times (and after almost a third of the '05 season, Drew's on pace to do it again). Or do it as soon as year two of his career. Or do it just two years removed from a 2-14 season. Or do it again his first season playing for a 3-13 Buffalo team.

Then again, Scott Mitchell isn't in the all-time top 50 in any major category, nor did he even have one Pro Bowl invite (even the year he was 'out of this world'). It seems clear Bledsoe's resume more closely resembles those of the first list of signal callers you posted than Scott Mitchell.
 
http://www.profootball-reference.com/players/BledDr00.htm


Drew 1994-1999 was one of the most dominant QB's in the NFL
Fastest and youngest ever to 10,000 yards.


2002 He put up 4500 yards and All Pro.

He's doing it again, coincidence? The media, some Bills fans might try and convince you - they scattered like cockroaches and are hiding behind the crickets..... The real Pats fans that were in the stadium 93-1999 get how talented this kid truly is.

I'm rooting my *** for him to take this team over the top.....
 
Hostile said:
Because I was making a point about impact.

You think people won't remember Vick's running ability or the media craze about him?
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they might, people still talk about Bobby Douglass and his running ability 30 yrs or so after the fact, so I guess anything is possible

doesnt mean he's a good QB...my opinion is he isnt

David
 
mickgreen58 said:
Really?

Vick has improved his team every since he has started for the Falcons and has one of the highest winning percentage of any Quarterback in the league.

I dont know if there is a more valuable player in this league to his particular team then that guy. You take him away from Atlanta and I think they start sinking fast.

Who says you always have to do that same thing just because all the other guys did it a certain way before you?

The guy needs to work on his passing but he hasnt exactly had the best talent to work with at receiver and he can literally take over a game with one of his strengths, which is running.

Vick has just as much of a chance to get into the Hall of Fame as Manning in my opinion.

- Mike G.
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Vick has zero chance at the hall IMO, because he isnt a passer

Matt Schaub played a better game than just about anything Vick has veer done this past sunday...did they lose because Vick didnt play? afterall Schaub did throw for almost 300 yds and 3 tds, and they hung 28 pts up on the Pats...those numbers are alot better than what they do on a weekly basis with Vick playing QB

they lost the game because they yielded almost 500 yds and 31 pts to the Pats, niether of which ahd anything to do with who started at QB

you say you dont know if there's a more valuable player, I say there isnt a more overhyped, underwhelming passer in the history of football

David
 
mickgreen58 said:
I think the guy is redefining the position and I think he will become an accomplished passer at some point, if he wants to, and I think he will have too as the older you get, the first thing to go is those legs.
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redefining the positon? what, by being a terrible passer that the media slobbers all over because occasionally he makes some RB type run on the highlight film?

he hasnt shown much improvement as a passer since day one...he was a bad passer at VT, and he's a bad passer today

David
 
dbair1967 said:
redefining the positon? what, by being a terrible passer that the media slobbers all over because occasionally he makes some RB type run on the highlight film?

he hasnt shown much improvement as a passer since day one...he was a bad passer at VT, and he's a bad passer today

David
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David - 100% spot on Vick.

He needs to learn ala Steve Young if he's ever going to get to a Super Bowl. PASS FIRST FROM POCKET.

He keeps running he's going to continue to be habitually injured and the day comes the young wolves get into his heels.......
 
Nors said:
David - 100% spot on Vick.

He needs to learn ala Steve Young if he's ever going to get to a Super Bowl. PASS FIRST FROM POCKET.

He keeps running he's going to continue to be habitually injured and the day comes the young wolves get into his heels.......
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Young was a great passer who also had outstanding run skills

Vick is a runner who has lousy passing skills...Young didnt need to "learn" how to play QB, he was already schooled in the passing game at BYU...Vick was a school yard player at VT

David
 
But Young never really accepted the pass first till later in his career. But - yes he smokes Vick as a QB.
 
alpha said:
Well then, I guess Drew has no shot at the Hall after all. ;)

I'm betting Mitchell didn't do it four times (and after almost a third of the '05 season, Drew's on pace to do it again). Or do it as soon as year two of his career. Or do it just two years removed from a 2-14 season. Or do it again his first season playing for a 3-13 Buffalo team.

Then again, Scott Mitchell isn't in the all-time top 50 in any major category, nor did he even have one Pro Bowl invite (even the year he was 'out of this world'). It seems clear Bledsoe's resume more closely resembles those of the first list of signal callers you posted than Scott Mitchell.
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I never said he has NO shot. I am saying unless certain things happen he's a long shot.

The point with Mitchell is simple, he had a season where he was top 5 in stats. In any other area, no.

Same with Bledsoe. At no point would I likely take him in those years you mentioned because Favre, Aikman, Young, Elway, Kelly, Marino, et al were better QBs.

Again, not saying he stinks.
 
dbair1967 said:
they might, people still talk about Bobby Douglass and his running ability 30 yrs or so after the fact, so I guess anything is possible

doesnt mean he's a good QB...my opinion is he isnt

David
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Yeah, I know how you feel about Vick. Like him or not, he has some impact.
 
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