Forget Dak, he's not the problem

[G2]

No doubt Bus Driver is subjective. Much like Elite is. Not everyone agrees on the particulars.

I’m not denying Dak might be enough to win a championship. He has some intangible assets. But based on what I’ve seen he needs a greater supporting cast than more prolific passers. I know. Another subjective term.

And once we pay him it’s going to be tougher if we aren’t able to surround him with the same level of support.

Wanting or thinking a more prolific passer or Elite QB would enhance our chances doesn’t have to be a derogatory thought on Dak. That’s what I believe would help put us over the top. When you have one of those QB’s then the discussion for improvement can move elsewhere.

But as long as he’s not and continue not playing for championships then it’s going to be front and center.

Elite actually has a definition though. Some fans just misuse it. Best of the best, not just the top 10.

And Prescott has already shown that he's good enough, specifically in the post-season. His 1st two playoff appearances out perform his predecessor's first 2.
All we need to do is improve on defense and figure out what the heck is going on with special teams.

 

[blueblood70]

exactly its not always a single player but hers some reality,

AR record last 23 games 35mil gets you 10-12-1

 

[charron]

When the biggest JAG on the team is about to make 30million a year...that's an issue.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Not as easy as that guy in Philly, what's his name, you know, the guy who's accuracy is built around 2 out pass. Well, whatever his name is.

The guy who increased his ypa from his runner up MVP season? Maybe we’re talking about different guys

 

[Diehardblues]

Elite actually has a definition though. Some fans just misuse it. Best of the best, not just the top 10.

And Prescott has already shown that he's good enough, specifically in the post-season. His 1st two playoff appearances out perform his predecessor's first 2.
All we need to do is improve on defense and figure out what the heck is going on with special teams.

I’m not as convinced he’s good enough. I see a team that with one of those top 10 QB’s we might already be there. Remember I was one who thought a more elite QB might have taken us further last era too.

But if we had this top 10 defense with the top 10 offense of 2014 we’d be much closer. We can’t dismiss the issues a 22nd ranked offense presents.

We also need to figure out why our passing offense is bottom tier. But I guess you don’t believe any of that is connected to our QB weaknesses?

 

[CouchCoach]

That same Patriot defense also gave up 28 and 31 to Chargers and Chiefs respectively. And needed more offense to win both of those games.

Framing the argument over that lone playoff game in Super Bowl doesn’t tell the whole story and why statistics aren’t drawn on one game alone.

The only stat we need on the Patriots is that they are the most balanced team, year in year out, in the NFL. Top 10 in run, pass, O and D.

They are not built to compete one way but every way. Wanna play it tight, a little smash mouth? Wanna air it out and get into the 30's? There is no other team like them.

 

[glimmerman]

OK, I was feeling left out and haven't had a Dak thread so this is my only one. But I thought I would combine a Ranching thread with this so what are you eating while reading and responding?

Who lost that Green Bay playoff game and the one in LA? It is a trick question because it's like a Dr. Seuss book, it was a lot of who's, like an entire team of them.

Dak Prescott played well enough to win both of those games and brought them back in that Green Bay game very smartly for a rookie QB. The D in one gets 18 points down and in the other lets the opposing team run it up the gut and limit Dak's time with the ball and opportunities. Those were team losses.

Hey, I agree about the inconsistent accuracy being a challenge but I've also seen enough accuracy from him that I know he can play the position. And let's assume he and the coaching staff are aware of that issue as well and are working on that together.

What's the most important trait for a QB, any player? What do you think Eagles fans would say it is for a QB? Durability, doesn't matter how good a player is if he can't show up consistently and we've got a Tier 1 when it comes to that and he plays a little contact as well. Of all the teams, we can be the least concerned about the backup QB. And the Eagles?

It isn't about Prescott like it wasn't about Romo, it was about the teams they led and how their perceived their part in that. Romo was more risk because he felt he had to do something on every possession because he didn't have that first best friend, a D, but he proved how good he could be with that second best friend, a RB. Prescott has both best friends and they're better than Romo ever had.

And let's forget this "carrying the team" nonsense about these other QB's like Brady, Brees and Rodgers, do they really carry their teams or do they get the ball in the hands of the playmakers just like Aikman and Montana used to do? They do not carry the team, they execute the plays and it is the team that carries the team.

For whatever reason, fans take a liking to a player or not and the QB seems to catch most of that. No matter what the QB does, if someone doesn't like him, it's never going to be good enough and the weight of the load goes on his back.

This team will go as far as the team can take itself, not as far as the QB can take it. It's funny how Brady gets the GOAT tag, and he's pretty damned good, but ever notice every year he wins it, his run game and D are in the top 10, that's every year he's won it. Maybe Brees and Rodgers would have won more than that if their teams had done that and maybe Rivers could get to one.

Here we go again.. Someone bringing in common sense. Some people are going to hate on Dak even if he won a SB and got MVP. I think at first they don’t think he is gonna be any good and once it becomes apparent that they are wrong they don’t want to admit it and I think they will actually root for him to screw up so they can say “I told you so.” Rooting against a player on your supposed favorite team.

This is the ultimate team game. Some QB need more or different things to succeed. If we have a top 10 Offense and Defense we would be awesome. With the cap it makes it tough. We don’t exactly have a leg up when it comes to the coaching staff either. JG pretty much cost us a few games with his decision making last year.

Dak is good enough to be a franchise QB and JJ and SJ believes in him. So like him or not he is your QB for the future. I for 1 am getting behind him and this team. I want a ring, it’s been to long and it’s our turn.

Barring injury we will see a improved Offense and Dak this year. The return of our center and healthy O-Line with even more depth is going to go a long way. Almost every position on Offense should be improved. Defense should be playing with a chip on there shoulders after the way our season ended. They and the staff should really focus on run stopping and getting after that qb. Our D-Line should be improved and healthy. Hard to believe that last year was LVE rookie year. And Jaylon should be even better if that’s possible. Lee is healthy and is in a better position. Our secondary will be returning with the same players with another year of experience. Yeah yeah everyone is worried about safety. We will be fine and FA isn’t over yet.

I worry more about our ST than the other units. Especially the drop off of Maher. He missed his very first kick for us and afterwards became very reliable, and once we settled in he got sketchy again. I would like to see improvement there. Other than that it’s on...

 

[Diehardblues]

The only stat we need on the Patriots is that they are the most balanced team, year in year out, in the NFL. Top 10 in run, pass, O and D.

They are not built to compete one way but every way. Wanna play it tight, a little smash mouth? Wanna air it out and get into the 30's? There is no other team like them.

And no other team with the greatest QB/HC combo of all time.

10 straight championship and 9 SB appearances overall is just embarrassing to the rest of the league.lol

It’s basically GOAT Brady ( who is most clutch QB in NFL history), the greatest defensive guru of this era and the 2nd stringers.

Place any other HC/QB combo this era and they don’t scratch the success they’ve had with same rosters.

 

[glimmerman]

And no other team with the greatest QB/HC combo of all time.

10 straight championship and 9 SB appearances overall is just embarrassing to the rest of the league.lol

It’s basically GOAT Brady ( who is most clutch QB in NFL history), the greatest defensive guru of this era and the 2nd stringers.

Place any other HC/QB combo this era and they don’t scratch the success they’ve had with same rosters.

I don’t think we will ever see a team do that again. Wish it was us. We Cowboys fans would have such big heads we wouldn’t fit through the door. Lol.

 

[G2]

I’m not as convinced he’s good enough. I see a team that with one of those top 10 QB’s we might already be there. Remember I was one who thought a more elite QB might have taken us further last era too.

But if we had this top 10 defense with the top 10 offense of 2014 we’d be much closer. We can’t dismiss the issues a 22nd ranked offense presents.

We also need to figure out why our passing offense is bottom tier. But I guess you don’t believe any of that is connected to our QB weaknesses?

The offense wasn't the issue (passing game wise) in the post season. That's what counts. Your offensive ranking is skewed.

But keep dreaming of this unicorn elite QB that will NOT effect the salary cap as 99% of all elite QBs do. All that will do is take away opportunities for better talent around him. Romo got elite salary and look what happened.

It's fundamentally unsound reasoning to point the finger at Prescott when the team won the division, beat Seattle in the wildcard round and the running game and defense got stuffed. All that considered, you STILL blame the QB and suggest that's an area of weakness. Never mentioning the REAL weakness that beat the QN
That's why it's difficult to take you serious.

 

[tyke1doe]

Dak has yet to have a scratch your head moment in the playoffs. The moment has never seemed to big for him; even against the likes of Rodgers and Wilson. It's a team sport so any one player could have done one or more things to win any game regular of playoff to include Dak. However, IMO Dak did not do anything glaring that caused us to lose in any of his playoff games.

You mean like missing wide open receivers?
That's the problem with the assessment about Dak. There's the game you see, and the game you don't see. Several people have said during the LA game, Dallas had receivers basically ordering dessert and Dak didn't see them.

Having said that, Dak is our quarterback. He's likely not going anywhere.

This is is JASON GARRETT'S year. He has to prove he can take this team farther than he has.

He needs AT LEAST a NFC Championship Game appearance. Any less, and he's gone, especially since Jerry did not renew his coach.

He coaching for his career as a Cowboy coach. Let's see what he's going to do.

 

[Point-of-the-Star]

Two cents Charlie says good post. Did Aikman carry the team, no. Did Staubach, no. Did Romo, no. They did their bit and I know that QB is the most important position on the offense but every team needs a D to keep the score down, an o-line to protect the QB, a RB to share the load and WR's who can catch the ball. Aikman, Staubach had great defenses and teams around them. Romo too at times. I believe we're getting back to that.

Now to Moore, he's the key I believe

I want to build on this and CouchCoach's original post.

I think . when we talk about "carrying a team" we're talking about consistently making plays, big plays, controlling the offensive flow and yes, winning the game based on QB talent and will. Absolutely Aaron Rogers carried GB to victory in that 2016 playoff game ... on his back! Take him out of the equation and we win that game handily. He was hurt (or faking hurt) that game too.

Staubach for sure pushed the envelope, literally willing the team to perform, like AR did in 2016. Listen to any opponent speak about him and they all say as long as he was back there you couldn't count the Cowboys out. Opponents feared him and his play elevated all those around him (his teammates) ... maybe not the definition of carrying a team but it ain't too damn far off.

Aikman showed superbly excellent play but those early 90's teams it was a group effort ... just an overall talented bunch led by the Triplets. Aikman was just a huge cog in the wheel but I think it was really Emmit's team. Can't minimize QB play and Aikman performed.

Can't say yet that I see any of this on this team or with this QB. So I agree with CC it'll be a team win if we have a successful year. I do think if Moore is as good as some think (me included) he'll elevate Dak's and the offense's play.

Still wanting #6 here before I go into that great stadium in the sky!

 

[glimmerman]

You mean like missing wide open receivers?
That's the problem with the assessment about Dak. There's the game you see, and the game you don't see. Several people have said during the LA game, Dallas had receivers basically ordering dessert and Dak didn't see them.

Having said that, Dak is our quarterback. He's likely not going anywhere.

This is is JASON GARRETT'S year. He has to prove he can take this team farther than he has.

He needs AT LEAST a NFC Championship Game appearance. Any less, and he's gone, especially since Jerry did not renew his coach.

He coaching for his career as a Cowboy coach. Let's see what he's going to do.

And having to rely on a first year OC. I see a ulcer in his near future.

 

[CouchCoach]

I laugh when I see the terms "bus driver" or "game manager" used in a derogatory manner. I think 'oh, you mean Starr, Bradshaw, Montana, Aikman and Brady'? QB's that execute the plays called which is exactly why Walsh had Montana on his radar. Sure, some of these guys have a little extra in crunch time which separates them from the pack but they are game managers, not game creators.

Elway didn't get his rings until he learned to game manage and Marino never did learn the difference between QB and passer. Game managers have the rings because they have the teams and know how to manage their side of it.

What's so magic about Brady? What does he do that the others don't do? What makes him elite? He is the ultimate game manager and understands his role, when passing, is to find the hot receiver fast and get the ball to him. He's accurate but not any more than Rivers or Rodgers, he's just on a better team with a HC that understands the QB role. And his QB understands his job better than any other QB. Belichick likes "just do your job" but he makes it clear and exact just what the job is, especially his QB.

All of this focus on that one position causes not enough focus on the team. No QB understands his own offense better than Brady or makes fewer improvisations out of necessity. It is all about execution.

 

[erod]

OK, I was feeling left out and haven't had a Dak thread so this is my only one. But I thought I would combine a Ranching thread with this so what are you eating while reading and responding?

Who lost that Green Bay playoff game and the one in LA? It is a trick question because it's like a Dr. Seuss book, it was a lot of who's, like an entire team of them.

Dak Prescott played well enough to win both of those games and brought them back in that Green Bay game very smartly for a rookie QB. The D in one gets 18 points down and in the other lets the opposing team run it up the gut and limit Dak's time with the ball and opportunities. Those were team losses.

Hey, I agree about the inconsistent accuracy being a challenge but I've also seen enough accuracy from him that I know he can play the position. And let's assume he and the coaching staff are aware of that issue as well and are working on that together.

What's the most important trait for a QB, any player? What do you think Eagles fans would say it is for a QB? Durability, doesn't matter how good a player is if he can't show up consistently and we've got a Tier 1 when it comes to that and he plays a little contact as well. Of all the teams, we can be the least concerned about the backup QB. And the Eagles?

It isn't about Prescott like it wasn't about Romo, it was about the teams they led and how their perceived their part in that. Romo was more risk because he felt he had to do something on every possession because he didn't have that first best friend, a D, but he proved how good he could be with that second best friend, a RB. Prescott has both best friends and they're better than Romo ever had.

And let's forget this "carrying the team" nonsense about these other QB's like Brady, Brees and Rodgers, do they really carry their teams or do they get the ball in the hands of the playmakers just like Aikman and Montana used to do? They do not carry the team, they execute the plays and it is the team that carries the team.

For whatever reason, fans take a liking to a player or not and the QB seems to catch most of that. No matter what the QB does, if someone doesn't like him, it's never going to be good enough and the weight of the load goes on his back.

This team will go as far as the team can take itself, not as far as the QB can take it. It's funny how Brady gets the GOAT tag, and he's pretty damned good, but ever notice every year he wins it, his run game and D are in the top 10, that's every year he's won it. Maybe Brees and Rodgers would have won more than that if their teams had done that and maybe Rivers could get to one.

Let's look at that Green Bay playoff game. Dak was AWFUL at the beginning of that game, managing a lousy field goal until late in the second quarter. The Packers were missing their entire secondary and two starting linebackers. Primed to give up 50 easily. Eventually, that abysmal Packers defense wilted.

The very next week, the Packers were down, 31-0, early in the third quarter in a laugher. That Green Bay team was a 2-14 squad at that point in the season.

 

[tyke1doe]

Pick 6 vs GB, on the screen to Bease...was a scratch your head moment.

Thanks Couch, for naming an attribute Dak has (durability) besides "he's a winner" cause we know it's a team sport as you've stated.

Let's not forget Aikman was on fire in the '92 SB his accuracy n decision making was HOF ish. Give Troy more credit, Staubach too even tho he was before me...cause he won it all. In fairness, Dak hasn't made a conference championship game, even though he's played well in the playoffs.

You can't blame Dak for that interception. That was play-calling. The Packers studied the play and knew what to do when it was called. That's on JASON GARRETT or whoever the offensive coordinator was at the time. Dak placed the ball where he always placed it. All interceptions aren't on the quarterback.

 

[erod]

You can't blame Dak for that interception. That was play-calling. The Packers studied the play and knew what to do when it was called. That's on JASON GARRETT or whoever the offensive coordinator was at the time. Dak placed the ball where he always placed it. All interceptions aren't on the quarterback.

What?

The QB decides when, where, and if he throws the ball. Always. He can check out of plays that don't set up well at the line. He can throw the ball at the feet of a receiver if he's not open, or take off running. He can take a sack if he has to. Real quarterbacks do it all the time.

Interceptions are ALWAYS the fault of the quarterback unless the ball is bobbled into an interception by the receiver. Tipped balls at the line of scrimmage are just happenstance. It's never the fault of the coach that a ball gets picked off.

 

[tyke1doe]

I

Elway didn't get his rings until he learned to game manage and Marino never did learn the difference between QB and passer. Game managers have the rings because they have the teams and know how to manage their side of it.

This statement is misleading.
Elway was not a gam manager. Game managers don't win Super Bowl MVP, which Elway did.
Elway benefited from a running game and a better offensive line and understood that in the modern era of football, you can't always pass your way to victory. So he relied on Terrell Davis. But because Elway was still dangerous, teams couldn't stack the box on Terrell Davis; otherwise, Elway would eat them alive, which is what happened when the Broncos beat the Falcons in the Super Bowl.

Marino had a team that COULD have won the Super Bowl. But he was going against a better defense and a better quarterback in Montana.

Dak is nowhere near Elway or Marino. If Dak were in either of their situations, those teams likely are not sniffing the Super Bowl. You can't convince me that if Dak were Elway on the 90s Broncos teams, they'd be in the Super Bowl. Uh, no.

Nevertheless, the Cowboys are building a very solid and complete team with a power running game. Dak can improve and the jury is not out on him yet. But we will see this year because the Cowboys should get to the Super Bowl. They have enough talent to get there. We have no excuses, neither Dak nor Garrett. This is the year for both to prove what they have.

 

[jazzcat22]

The guy who increased his ypa from his runner up MVP season? Maybe we’re talking about different guys

I don't know, as that guy is forgettable up there in the Northeast.

 

[tyke1doe]

What?

The QB decides when, where, and if he throws the ball. Always. He can check out of plays that don't set up well at the line. He can throw the ball at the feet of a receiver if he's not open, or take off running. He can take a sack if he has to. Real quarterbacks do it all the time.

Interceptions are ALWAYS the fault of the quarterback unless the ball is bobbled into an interception by the receiver. Tipped balls at the line of scrimmage are just happenstance. It's never the fault of the coach that a ball gets picked off.

No. If a ball hits a receiver in the hands and bounces into a corners hands, is that on the quarterback? Of course, not.

Second, no, if a quarterback throws a ball where it should be - particularly on a quick play like the Beasley play - and the defensive player makes a good read, it's not the quarterback's fault. The other team can make great plays too.

The way many of you look at it is that the offensive is ALWAYS at fault or gets all the credit. But that takes away from the defense. If Lawrence Taylor blitzes off the edge so fast that the OT can't react in time and the quarterback gets hit and fumbles the ball, is that the quarterback's fault or did LT just make a great play?

No, I don't believe that all interceptions, sacks, fumbles are the quarterback's fault. That takes away from the efforts of the defense.