Frederick Alone > Floyd

dmq said:
I'll be happy if Frederick ends up better than Pugh considering how all the pundits lauded the Giants pick simply because it was Jerry Reese making the selection and we got bashed for Frederick just because Jerry was making the selection.
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I'd also like to add.

*** the giants.
 
He doesn't have to be hof material to bring the line a little closer to being a good line.
 
Considering how many botched snaps there were, how easily the opposing defenses had Romo running around and how often defenses had hands on runningbacks as soon as they got the ball, bolstering the O-line was the right choice.
 
burmafrd said:
Kiffin and Marinelli both seemed lukewarm at best about Floyd. In that case you do not draft him in the first.
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Exactly. I think they would have wanted Williams had he dropped to us at 31. I'm happy with Fredericks though, especially since it seems like we've got some guys that can get up field on the DL
 
Considering some people, including myself, have been pleading for oline help for years and years now, it's hard not to be happy with the Frederick pick. My problem with the whole Floyd situation was always about the philosophy, rather than the player we passed on - especially since I thought Floyd was way overrated after his late surge up "draft boards" to begin with.
 
TheCount said:
Considering some people, including myself, have been pleading for oline help for years and years now, it's hard not to be happy with the Frederick pick. My problem with the whole Floyd situation was always about the philosophy, rather than the player we passed on - especially since I thought Floyd was way overrated after his late surge up "draft boards" to begin with.
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It was a bit odd. Seems weird to grade a guy so highly when there's no intent on picking him, even under what would be considered an unlikely fall. I've gone back and forth a bit and still don't really see where it all comes together.

Maybe it was more of a formality type thing where the scouts get to have their say in who gets placed where but the coaches get to have their say in who gets picked.

If you allow coaches to influence how the board is set, how do you actually evaluate how well your scouts are doing? On the other hand, could they not have the scouts create the board and record how it fell before giving the coaches some ability to manipulate it in terms of if someone would be taken at "X" pick?

It almost seems as thought it was a foregone conclusion that he wouldn't be there so they didn't really discuss the possibility of him being there.

Who knows for sure. I wasn't all that thrilled to hear Dallas took a guy when almost everyone (including Frederick) said that he expected to go later. The pick has since grown on me, mostly because he's regarded as being intelligent, which is something this team has lacked a good deal of over the past few years. I didn't watch the game the other night but I might look for it and see how it all turned out. Reviews seem to be very good and that is encouraging.
 
Fredrick is going to be a really good player.You can just see he understands the game and has a passion to learn and get better. I know it's early to make predictions about his career but I feel confident we will see this kid in multiple Pro Bowls. Terrance Williams is another guy with a lot of talent and ability but WR are too difficult to make any predictions about his career but its easy to say he has a huge up-side. So Floyd would basically have to turn out to be Warren Sapp for this to be considered a bad trade and even if that happened I still like what they did here.
 
While I wasn't enraged with the way the draft unfolded like some, I found some aspects of the trade to be distressing (Floyd ranked highly, disagreement between GM and coach, etc.), and I'm certainly not ready to pronounce that it was a brilliant move based on where the two players are at this point in their respective careers. Frederick is starting over Costa and looks promising after one preseason game, but that's hardly incontrovertible evidence supporting the OP and it might not mean a whole lot when all is said and done.
 
I'm a big believer in BPA and drafting your board, and even more in establishing a process and sticking with it. This year's 1st-round shenanigans were the first time in the Garrett era that the Cowboys failed to follow their process. But after the trade down, they got back with the program and made good solid choices consistent with what seems to be Garrett's draft philosophy. In the end, it looks like another really good Garrett draft. I just hope the early confusion remains a very rare exception.
 
jimnabby said:
I'm a big believer in BPA and drafting your board, and even more in establishing a process and sticking with it. This year's 1st-round shenanigans were the first time in the Garrett era that the Cowboys failed to follow their process. But after the trade down, they got back with the program and made good solid choices consistent with what seems to be Garrett's draft philosophy. In the end, it looks like another really good Garrett draft. I just hope the early confusion remains a very rare exception.
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BPA is given lip service by all but followed by virtually NONE. In the end you factor in need virtually with every pick.
 
Here's the one aspect I don't understand -- people have said that the Cowboys board was formed solely by the scouts based on talent, thereby prohibiting need to come into play twice (once in forming the board, and again during selection), and the coaches retained veto power

That's all well and good, but if that's the case, why were other prospects left off due to their lack of fit, e.g. Larry Warford?
 
My only problem with the trade is that we could have and should have gotten another pick from SF in the move, even if it was later

the team needed to get better on the OL, and it has been stated in here and in the media that Kiffin wasn't big on short-armed Floyd...perhaps they also knew that they could get production out of their DL using the new scheme, but there is no new scheme for OL if they suck as a unit (apologies to Ty)...one pre-season game does not annoint the new defensive scheme as a hit, but geez, did Selvie look good, and Wilber had a very solid game as well...wait until those two names are Ware and Spencer....as far as the draft, OL was the bigger need, yes, but 21 teams passed on Floyd for a reason...hindsight is a funny thing, but I feel like Fred was a terrific move...he still has to prove it in more than one pre-season game against a depleted team, but it was encouraging to see his progress so far
 
jimnabby said:
I'm a big believer in BPA and drafting your board, and even more in establishing a process and sticking with it. This year's 1st-round shenanigans were the first time in the Garrett era that the Cowboys failed to follow their process. But after the trade down, they got back with the program and made good solid choices consistent with what seems to be Garrett's draft philosophy. In the end, it looks like another really good Garrett draft. I just hope the early confusion remains a very rare exception.
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Based on their reported draft board if the Cowboys had kept their original picks and went BPA, they wouldn't have taken an OL in the draft. Their draft would likely look very much the same except for Floyd rather than Frederick and without the extra 3rd round pick.
 
TheRomoSexual said:
Here's the one aspect I don't understand -- people have said that the Cowboys board was formed solely by the scouts based on talent, thereby prohibiting need to come into play twice (once in forming the board, and again during selection), and the coaches retained veto power

That's all well and good, but if that's the case, why were other prospects left off due to their lack of fit, e.g. Larry Warford?
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Because they choose to remove players that have no business being on their board. They don't want certain players no matter the circumstances. I've read that they use to keep all the players on the board during the Lacewell years and decided that this way was better.
 


some highlights of fred from the game,he looks good as a Center.
 
Hoofbite said:
It was a bit odd. Seems weird to grade a guy so highly when there's no intent on picking him, even under what would be considered an unlikely fall. I've gone back and forth a bit and still don't really see where it all comes together.

Maybe it was more of a formality type thing where the scouts get to have their say in who gets placed where but the coaches get to have their say in who gets picked.

If you allow coaches to influence how the board is set, how do you actually evaluate how well your scouts are doing? On the other hand, could they not have the scouts create the board and record how it fell before giving the coaches some ability to manipulate it in terms of if someone would be taken at "X" pick?

It almost seems as thought it was a foregone conclusion that he wouldn't be there so they didn't really discuss the possibility of him being there.

Who knows for sure. I wasn't all that thrilled to hear Dallas took a guy when almost everyone (including Frederick) said that he expected to go later. The pick has since grown on me, mostly because he's regarded as being intelligent, which is something this team has lacked a good deal of over the past few years. I didn't watch the game the other night but I might look for it and see how it all turned out. Reviews seem to be very good and that is encouraging.
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My personal opinion is that they went into the 1st expecting to draft one of the top 6 o lineman and panicked when so many went so early. I think a lot of the negative pub towards Floyd was manufactured to draw attention from the backlash that was sure to come from passing on him. Probably just a crazy conspiracy theory, but makes a lot of sense to me. Not saying it was the worst idea either, because I was one of the loudest screamers to fix the o line.
 
this? again? ffs. Its ok to think both players can be very good pro's. No need for anyone to cry about it or have to bring it up every 2 weeks.
 
unionjack8 said:
this? again? ffs. Its ok to think both players can be very good pro's. No need for anyone to cry about it or have to bring it up every 2 weeks.
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I don't think this issue is going to be a dead issue anytime soon. I also think it is fair to evaluate this issue as we go along.
 
ninja said:
At the time of the draft, safety was a huge concern. Allen had not even practiced with the Cowboys yet. Church was coming off an achilles tear. Johnson was and still is a huge question mark. So, I'm sure the Cowboys gave Reid some consideration. I think the Cowboys said they would have went safety if New Orleans didn't pick the guy they were interested in.

The Cowboys did go TE with their 2nd rd pick. So picking a TE in the 1st may not have been out of the question. When Witten got hurt last year in the preseason, there was a lot of panic and heartburn I'm sure. Eifert in the 1st and Frederick in the 2nd would have been a nice haul (assuming he may have dropped. Some think so. I personally don't).

Anyway, I'm happy the draft fell the way it did. I have no complaints about any of the players the Cowboys chose.
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They had plan set and what they wanted in the draft and what they had. Dallas wanted Johnson to step up and sign Allen for insurance. Allen just happened to step up and Johnson is injury prone. Dallas got Wilcox aswell. So Dallas got a starting OL, a future starter in Williams, and future starter in wilcox. Ill take all that over 1 player.
 
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