From the Coach mouth: Ware is not a dominant player... wow!!!!

[dbair1967]

merriman the next LT
Ware the next Greg Ellis

and stsinaz should be the next banned member

David

 

[STSINAZ]

thanks for your input tony blair...but really you should be banned...always ripping people on here with negativity...

here is an excerpt from DMN today....

And it's not the case for Ware, who like Strahan, hasn't gotten off to a fast start this season. With just two sacks in the first five games, Ware is tied for 33rd in the NFC in sacks. Not exactly what the Cowboys had in mind when they drafted him 11th overall prior to last season.

 

[STSINAZ]

and stsinaz should be the next banned member

David

so i should be banned for making an observation? is this **** germany? i havent been over the top with anyone...just because i dont agree with you i should be banned? you need to get a grip tony b

 

[adbutcher]

There are too many idiots on this board. Sorry.

They have grown in number.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

And for the record I don't compare him to Shawn Merriman anymore...I compare him to the other #94 that played for the Cowboys C.Haley...because that was the last great presser player we had...and if we do this as Cowboy fans then we all can clearly see that this kid is not living up to the hype...sorry but when I flash back to how Haley played in that #94 a tear comes to my eye...damn I miss presser like that!

But let me end this by sayin that as a Cowboy fan for 37 years I pray(foreal)that this kid is the truth..cause if not this defense can't be great!!!!

This kind of makes me chuckle. If you are comparing Ware to Haley, and you've been a cowboy fan for 37 years, then I can't imagine you saw too much of Haley at a comparable time in his career.

When Haley first came into the league, he was really not great against the run. In fact, most teams tried to run at him when they could. In his first two years in the league, he only started 3 games. He was used as a pass rush specialist a great deal.

Are these two comparable?

Haley's First Two Years

Tkls Solo Sacks FF INT TDs
59 49 12 4 1 0
25 21 7 1 0 0

Ware's First Year and Projected Second year.

Tkls Solo Sacks FF INT TDs
58 47 8 3 0 0
45 40 5 NA 1 1

In Ware's case, tough to judge FF, INTs and TDs so I simply left the figures as they stand now but I think the Sacks in his second year are a conservative number. I expect he will likely get as many or more then he did last year but we can go with these numbers. Also interesting to note that Ware as started every game since he came into the league. He is an every down player now. I think it's unfortunate that so many are so quick to judge this guy before he's even had opportunity to learn his craft. Not surprising thou.

 

[Rack]

When Haley first came into the league, he was really not great against the run. In fact, most teams tried to run at him when they could.

Same can be said about Ware last year.

In his first two years in the league, he only started 3 games. He was used as a pass rush specialist a great deal.

Haley went to the 49ers, at that time they were one of the top teams in the NFL. They won the superbowl Haley's rookie year, and the year after.

Not even CLOSE to being a fair comparison.


To be able to contribute 12 sacks to a superbowl team, that says a lot IMO.


At this point in time, Ware can't hold Haley's jock.


That said, I think he's got the potential to be just as good as Haley. My only problem with Ware is how he finishes games. He seems to get a sack or a good play early on, then disappears.


Edit: Whoops. I got my years mixed up. The 9ers didn't win the SB in Haley's rookie year. They won it in his 3rd year. They were still a playoff team his rookie year though, and he did have 11.5 sacks in their first superbowl season (Haley's 3rd year). He had 10.5 the next season (when they won the SB again).

 

[STSINAZ]

did you ever think that maybe haley was one of the reasons they won that superbowl you are referring to? ware is far away from haley at this point or where he was in his 2nd year...he is about at where greg ellis was in his 2nd year...maybe a little further but not by much

 

[ringmaster]

This kind of makes me chuckle. If you are comparing Ware to Haley, and you've been a cowboy fan for 37 years, then I can't imagine you saw too much of Haley at a comparable time in his career.

When Haley first came into the league, he was really not great against the run. In fact, most teams tried to run at him when they could. In his first two years in the league, he only started 3 games. He was used as a pass rush specialist a great deal.

Are these two comparable?

Haley's First Two Years

Tkls Solo Sacks FF INT TDs
59 49 12 4 1 0
25 21 7 1 0 0

Ware's First Year and Projected Second year.

Tkls Solo Sacks FF INT TDs
58 47 8 3 0 0
45 40 5 NA 1 1

In Ware's case, tough to judge FF, INTs and TDs so I simply left the figures as they stand now but I think the Sacks in his second year are a conservative number. I expect he will likely get as many or more then he did last year but we can go with these numbers. Also interesting to note that Ware as started every game since he came into the league. He is an every down player now. I think it's unfortunate that so many are so quick to judge this guy before he's even had opportunity to learn his craft. Not surprising thou.

You just hit the nail right on the head you what poisons some fans minds the fact that the player that is picked in the first round regardless of position they expect them to make an immediate impact and that is very rare a few done it but that's the key word "few", another trap some "fairweather fan" fall in is that they drink all of the "hype aid" Kiper, and other "experts" spew about how they will be this and that at the next level.

In Ware's case as opposed to Merriman's he came from Troy University, outside of Montgomery, Alabama and how many exceptional football players come from Troy, believe it or not Ware, was the first ever 1st round pick from that school some sound as if Ware, just fell out of some tree into the first round make me wish he would've stayed a second rounder as he was projected to go in the 2005 NFL Draft.

They way some fans act here you and I can count our lucky stars they are/weren't the GM, of the Dallas Cowboys because if they were then players like Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith, ect would've been cut/never selected and those 90s SBs would've been a pipe dream.

 

[zrinkill]

Add STSINAZ to Your Ignore List

for those who are tired of hearing this Troll quack about how much he loves Meriman .......

 

[dbair1967]

did you ever think that maybe haley was one of the reasons they won that superbowl you are referring to? ware is far away from haley at this point or where he was in his 2nd year...he is about at where greg ellis was in his 2nd year...maybe a little further but not by much

I know its probably useless to point this out to you, but you do realize Haley had a grand total of 10 1/2 sacks COMBINED in 1992 and 1993 right?

and we all know how you feel about the "sack" statistic, so I guess Haley was a terrible player wasnt he? I mean afterall, Ware has half as many sacks right now as Haley had in the entire 1993 season

David

 

[STSINAZ]

you really do need to get a life tony blair...seriously

 

[dbair1967]

you really do need to get a life tony blair...seriously

and you really need to learn how to read screennames

and how'd the San Diego Merriman's look today...how many game changing plays and sacks did he get?

David

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Same can be said about Ware last year.




Haley went to the 49ers, at that time they were one of the top teams in the NFL. They won the superbowl Haley's rookie year, and the year after.

Not even CLOSE to being a fair comparison.


To be able to contribute 12 sacks to a superbowl team, that says a lot IMO.


At this point in time, Ware can't hold Haley's jock.


That said, I think he's got the potential to be just as good as Haley. My only problem with Ware is how he finishes games. He seems to get a sack or a good play early on, then disappears.


Edit: Whoops. I got my years mixed up. The 9ers didn't win the SB in Haley's rookie year. They won it in his 3rd year. They were still a playoff team his rookie year though, and he did have 11.5 sacks in their first superbowl season (Haley's 3rd year). He had 10.5 the next season (when they won the SB again).

I think you make a fair point but there is another side of that coin. The question would be, is it easier to come in, as a rookie and be used as a designated pass rusher or come in as a rookie and be responsible for playing every down as a starter for a full 16 games? You have to remember that Haley came in and was asked to do relitively little in comparision. He came to a strong playoff, even super bowl contending team that specifically drafted him to do one thing, Rush the passer. San Francisco had a Vet defense with a lot of good players. Ronnie Lott, Dwaine Board, Mike Carter, Tim McKyer, Dennis Harrison, Donnie Griffin, Riki Ellison, Jim Fahnhorst, Dana McLemore, Jeff Stove, Keena Turner, Mike Walter, Eric Wright, lots of decent players on that team. The other factor in that deal was that the lost Fred Dean in 85. Dean was there pass rushing specialist and they wanted to replace him and actually upgrade the position with a young pass rusher. That's why they drafted Haley and used him the way they did.

Ware was a very different situation indeed. IMO, it is much more difficult to be an every down player on a young team as opposed to a pass rush specialist on a very good Vet defensive team. That's just my opinion but I do believe it's harder.

I don't know that I could go along with your statement of Ware not being able to hold Haley's jock. I think they both had very good rookie seasons. They were asked to do different things is all.