FWST Blog: Dan Reeves Speaks

[Stash]

This is not to knock Owens, particularly, or to defend Garrett in any kind of blanket fashion... but one of the major criticisms of Owens throughout his career has been his route-running. Even when he was a great player, his routes were criticized.

I didn't like some of Garrett's play-calling, but I'm not willing to pretend some of the goofier looking stuff couldn't have been the result of sloppy route-running.

Really? Owens suddenly can't run routes?

The guy played in a West Coast offense for the better part of his career - a system requiring precise routes and he excelled to the tune of a Hall-of-Fame career doing it.

But suddenly, he comes to Dallas and 'can't run routes', 'drops too many passes' and 'can't get off the jam'.

It's amazing that he's been able to fool the leagues for as long as he has!

And it seems that the 'infection' spread to Roy Williams pretty fast too.

It's an epidemic I tell ya!

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Really? Owens suddenly can't run routes?

The guy played in a West Coast offense for the better part of his career - a system requiring precise routes and he excelled to the tune of a Hall-of-Fame career doing it.

But suddenly, he comes to Dallas and 'can't run routes', 'drops too many passes' and 'can't get off the jam'.

It's amazing that he's been able to fool the leagues for as long as he has!

And it seems that the 'infection' spread to Roy Williams pretty fast too.

It's an epidemic I tell ya!

Ha! It's nice someone can still chuckle while making an argument. Owens has never been a good route-runner. But he had great physical skills to overcome the deficiency. That's no longer the case, in my view. If you're as big a fan as you seem, I'm sure you don't need any input on whether Owens drops passes. And in 2008, he struggled with bump coverage.

In any case, even if you disagree with every point I've made, you are likely to agree Owens is no match, at this stage, for Fitzgerald, in terms of winning battles for the football... which was my main argument.

Owens does carry an infection that spreads. Let's hope Williams was just a little slow and hobbled. Let's hope he didn't catch the infection.

 

[Stash]

Fitzgerald makes plays on the ball Owens simply can't make these days. That's not meant to try to refute your entire point. But Haley doesn't have to work very hard to "get" Fitzgerald free. Fitzgerald wins battles in crowds. Owens can't do that anymore.

I'll concede that to a point.

Fitzgerald is a better receiver than Owens at this point certainly.

But Haley deserves credit for sheming Fitzgerald away from double coverage too.

Something that Garrett repeatedly failed to do.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

I'll concede that to a point.

Fitzgerald is a better receiver than Owens at this point certainly.

But Haley deserves credit for sheming Fitzgerald away from double coverage too.

Something that Garrett repeatedly failed to do.

I will agree with you that Haley did a good job giving Fitzgerald an opportunity to find space. But I have to say, I don't recall seeing any receiver make the plays Fitzgerald made this year when in tight coverage and double-teamed.

I didn't see Owens make those plays. In fact, to my eye, he avoided putting himself in positions where he might have been able to make plays. I know a lot of people disagree with me. I understand that. I simply think Owens' skills deteriorated considerably.

 

[Stash]

Ha! It's nice someone can still chuckle while making an argument. Owens has never been a good route-runner. But he had great physical skills to overcome the deficiency. That's no longer the case, in my view. If you're as big a fan as you seem, I'm sure you don't need any input on whether Owens drops passes. And in 2008, he struggled with bump coverage.

I'll agree to disagree about the routes. But he's never had the most natural hands for a receiver and has certainly dropped his share, and he takes little accountability when he does. I think his 'struggles' with bump coverage had more to do with the corners knowing where he was going - consistantly - and having safety help over the top. Not many receivers will beat that coverage. That's when it falls on the coordinator to devise ways to beat that coverage - Haley succeeded while Garrett failed.

In any case, even if you disagree with every point I've made, you are likely to agree Owens is no match, at this stage, for Fitzgerald, in terms of winning battles for the football... which was my main argument.

No questioning that point.

Owens does carry an infection that spreads. Let's hope Williams was just a little slow and hobbled. Let's hope he didn't catch the infection.

I lean more toward Garrett not using him properly myself. Roy was a good player on a bad Detroit team before coming to Dallas, but suddenly the guy can't play?

I don't buy that any more than I do that Fasano 'couldn't play' when he was here but suddenly 'gets it' in Miami.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Wow, anyone listening to 103.3?

Mosley is saying that he's checked around a lot the last day or so, and he's found out a lot of things.

He said the more people he talks to, the more he thinks that when Jerry gave RJ that huge raise last year, he gave him pretty much total dominion over the offense, and Wade lost some authority there.

He even said that he heard that Wade got disgusted with all the "secret meetings" and BS going on with the offensive side of the ball late in the year, and tried to put a stop to it. But that he -- as weird as it sounds for a HC -- wasn't able to really do that because that was entirely Garrett's department.

And Mosley even admitted he couldn't believe he was saying this, because he's always trashed Wade non-stop with the soft/cupcake/fat/dufus jokes. Yet it looks like Wade was the one who tried to tighten things up.

He also says he hears that despite what you may hear publicly, there isn't much of a relationship between RJ and Wade.

And finally, he thinks Newy's story was pretty much on, that Wade wanted Reeves to be his guy on that side of the ball and even Jerry was for that... But something happened for that not to come to pass.

Hmm, who could that be?

I thought I was kidding with my sig.

Almost made a new thread for this, but thought it would just get folded into another one.

 

[Iago33]

Wow, anyone listening to 103.3?

Mosley is saying that he's checked around a lot the last day or so, and he's found out a lot of things.

He said the more people he talks to, the more he thinks that when Jerry gave RJ that huge raise last year, he gave him pretty much total dominion over the offense, and Wade lost some authority there.

He even said that he heard that Wade got disgusted with all the "secret meetings" and BS going on with the offensive side of the ball late in the year, and tried to put a stop to it. But that he -- as weird as it sounds for a HC -- wasn't able to really do that because that was entirely Garrett's department.

And Mosley even admitted he couldn't believe he was saying this, because he's always trashed Wade non-stop with the soft/cupcake/fat/dufus jokes. Yet it looks like Wade was the one who tried to tighten things up.

He also says he hears that despite what you may hear publicly, there isn't much of a relationship between RJ and Wade.

And finally, he thinks Newy's story was pretty much on, that Wade wanted Reeves to be his guy on that side of the ball and even Jerry was for that... But something happened for that not to come to pass.

Hmm, who could that be?

I thought I was kidding with my sig.

Almost made a new thread for this, but thought it would just get folded into another one.

Something stinks in the state of Texas--and it's not just the Longhorns.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

I'll agree to disagree about the routes. But he's never had the most natural hands for a receiver and has certainly dropped his share, and he takes little accountability when he does. I think his 'struggles' with bump coverage had more to do with the corners knowing where he was going - consistantly - and having safety help over the top. Not many receivers will beat that coverage. That's when it falls on the coordinator to devise ways to beat that coverage - Haley succeeded while Garrett failed.



No questioning that point.



I lean more toward Garrett not using him properly myself. Roy was a good player on a bad Detroit team before coming to Dallas, but suddenly the guy can't play?

I don't buy that any more than I do that Fasano 'couldn't play' when he was here but suddenly 'gets it' in Miami.

You might be correct on any and all of your points. I'd like to see how Garrett does under one of two scenarios: a) a structure that somehow gets Owens on the same page as everyone else, or b) an offense put together without Owens.

I don't know how it would go. I'd like to see it.

 

[Stash]

I will agree with you that Haley did a good job giving Fitzgerald an opportunity to find space. But I have to say, I don't recall seeing any receiver make the plays Fitzgerald made this year when in tight coverage and double-teamed.

I didn't see Owens make those plays. In fact, to my eye, he avoided putting himself in positions where he might have been able to make plays. I know a lot of people disagree with me. I understand that. I simply think Owens' skills deteriorated considerably.

I don't think you're wrong in that opinion. I agree with you.

Few receivers attack the ball in the air like Fitzgerald does and Owens certainly didn't. But my point is that Owens is still a capable receiver and an asset to this team. I don't agree that his skills diminished considerably. If they had, he wouldn't have put up the numbers he did - even late in the season. What week was it that he put up 200 yards?

 

[khiladi]

Wow, anyone listening to 103.3?

Mosley is saying that he's checked around a lot the last day or so, and he's found out a lot of things.

He said the more people he talks to, the more he thinks that when Jerry gave RJ that huge raise last year, he gave him pretty much total dominion over the offense, and Wade lost some authority there.

He even said that he heard that Wade got disgusted with all the "secret meetings" and BS going on with the offensive side of the ball late in the year, and tried to put a stop to it. But that he -- as weird as it sounds for a HC -- wasn't able to really do that because that was entirely Garrett's department.

And Mosley even admitted he couldn't believe he was saying this, because he's always trashed Wade non-stop with the soft/cupcake/fat/dufus jokes. Yet it looks like Wade was the one who tried to tighten things up.

He also says he hears that despite what you may hear publicly, there isn't much of a relationship between RJ and Wade.

And finally, he thinks Newy's story was pretty much on, that Wade wanted Reeves to be his guy on that side of the ball and even Jerry was for that... But something happened for that not to come to pass.

Hmm, who could that be?

I thought I was kidding with my sig.

Almost made a new thread for this, but thought it would just get folded into another one.

Mosley should have been checking out this forum, because the anti-Garrett bandwagon been asserting the same thing for awhile now...

 

[khiladi]

I will agree with you that Haley did a good job giving Fitzgerald an opportunity to find space. But I have to say, I don't recall seeing any receiver make the plays Fitzgerald made this year when in tight coverage and double-teamed.

I didn't see Owens make those plays. In fact, to my eye, he avoided putting himself in positions where he might have been able to make plays. I know a lot of people disagree with me. I understand that. I simply think Owens' skills deteriorated considerably.

So FItzgerald making plays in the air for the ball that even great WRs don't make, including TO, is evidence that TO lost a step. TO in the prime of his career wasn't as good as Larry is now at doing that... But his numbers beat out LF in certain areas, including YPC I believe and maybe even TDs...

BTW, Larry didn't do much in the Super Bowl against double-coverage. He shined on single-coverage. Both his TDs were against single coverage, including the sixty yard slant play.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

I don't think you're wrong in that opinion. I agree with you.

Few receivers attack the ball in the air like Fitzgerald does and Owens certainly didn't. But my point is that Owens is still a capable receiver and an asset to this team. I don't agree that his skills diminished considerably. If they had, he wouldn't have put up the numbers he did - even late in the season. What week was it that he put up 200 yards?

My assertion has always been that as great players see their skills deteriorate their performances become spotty. They are still able to play at a high level, but not consistently. I think Nolan Ryan is as good an example as anyone. But there are other examples.

I think Owens is in that category. Take away that 200-yard game, and his season was pretty mediocre. Now you can argue that we can't ignore that big game, and that would be a reasonable thing to say, except in the context I presented: I don't think most great players lose all of their ability over night. I think they lose their ability, over time, to produce with any kind of consistency.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

So FItzgerald making plays in the air for the ball that even great WRs don't make, including TO, is evidence that TO lost a step. TO in the prime of his career wasn't as good as Larry is now at doing that... But his numbers beat out LF in certain areas, including YPC I believe and maybe even TDs...

BTW, Larry didn't do much in the Super Bowl against double-coverage. He shined on single-coverage. Both his TDs were against single coverage, including the sixty yard slant play.

Read the entire thread. My point wasn't to compare Fitzgerald and Owens. My point was to compare the ability of Haley and Garrett to tap their respective number one receivers.

 

[tyke1doe]

He also says he hears that despite what you may hear publicly, there isn't much of a relationship between RJ and Wade.

Why would this be a surprise to anyone? Garrett was forced on Wade as his heir apparent.

What do we have in Dallas?

An owner as a GM and coach.

An owner who hires the offensive coordinator before the head coach.

An offensive coordinator who's been promised the head coaching job. He just needs experience.

A coach who commands no respect from his talented troops.

An owner and coach who needs a consultant to do what a strong coach should do.

A consultant who moves into an office without a signed job contract only to vacate that office two days later after he and the owner can't come to an agreement.

A receiver who throws a Super Bowl party in Tampa, even though he's not in the Super Bowl, a receiver who will have his own reality show and an ex-receiver offering scrubs try outs.

A Hollywood quarterback with all the glitz and glamour of a celebrity athlete but with no ring.

A locker room of players who can't keep their mouths shut.

Oh, yeah. This team is screwed.

 

[khiladi]

And finally, he thinks Newy's story was pretty much on, that Wade wanted Reeves to be his guy on that side of the ball and even Jerry was for that... But something happened for that not to come to pass.

WHat does Garrett have on Jerry?

Jerry looks like he is going to have to bite the bullet for Garrett, at least one more year, because of the three million dollars and the tight economics.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Why would this be a surprise to anyone? Garrett was forced on Wade as his heir apparent.

Yep. I agree. If anyone should shoulder blame for problems with such a relationship, it must be the general manager.

 

[Stash]

My assertion has always been that as great players see their skills deteriorate their performances become spotty. They are still able to play at a high level, but not consistently. I think Nolan Ryan is as good an example as anyone. But there are other examples.

I think Owens is in that category. Take away that 200-yard game, and his season was pretty mediocre. Now you can argue that we can't ignore that big game, and that would be a reasonable thing to say, except in the context I presented: I don't think most great players lose all of their ability over night. I think they lose their ability, over time, to produce with any kind of consistency.

No question that Owens is on the downside of his career. None.

But if you want to take away the 200 yard game, be sure to take away his having no chance for success with a 78-year old rag-armed quarterback incapable of playing at the NFL level.

To be fair.

I think there's a good record of evidence to go by to determine what part of this equation has proven capable of doing their jobs - without outside help - and what part of the equation has not.

 

[Iago33]

WHat does Garrett have on Jerry?

Jerry looks like he is going to have to bite the bullet for Garrett, at least one more year, because of the three million dollars and the tight economics.

You really think Garrett is here because of the money? Jerry's never been crippled by spending. Wouldn't it make more sense to get rid of Garrett if he is the problem--despite the economic hit (as some people are saying we should do with Owens)? If the problem is easily identified, it should be cut out no matter what the economic ramifications are.

 

[khiladi]

Yep. I agree. If anyone should shoulder blame for problems with such a relationship, it must be the general manager.

yeah, but the same article said that Jerry also wanted Dan Reeves to shoulder some of the offensive play-calling. Jerry wanted more of Phillips hand in the offense.

And finally, he thinks Newy's story was pretty much on, that Wade wanted Reeves to be his guy on that side of the ball and even Jerry was for that... But something happened for that not to come to pass.

What is it that could have passed which caused Jerry to renege, if even Jerry wanted to? COntractual stipulations in Garrett's contract?

 

[Stash]

Why would this be a surprise to anyone? Garrett was forced on Wade as his heir apparent.

The part that would surprise me would be that Garrett could somehow prevent Jerry from hiring Reeves if he truly wanted to.