Garrett from MMQB

[Idgit]

I know you provided that points/offensive series, meaning you obfuscated. You showed what supported your point, but ignored what didn't support your point.

That stat doesn't adjust for drives that started with TOs for example.

It also doesn't take into account all the FGs we kicked, because our kicker is money. And when you take into account our red-zone scoring consistently falling, their goes how you score.

Lol. You need to look up the meaning of the word 'obfuscate.' I gave you points/offensive series because it's the best measure. Of course I'm not going to adjust the data because we have a good kicker. Or QB. Or whatever. Points scored by bad kickers count as much as points scored by good ones.

You're welcome to make your own supporting argument using actual information instead of just badly second-guessing mine, if you care to. I'll respond to it with my actual opinion if you do.

 

[Idgit]

Garrett has been terrible, that is fact. There is nothing that Garrett has done that has been "very good". That is a myth that you continue to see for whatever reason. As far as Sean Payton or whatever nonsense you are babbling about I have nothing to do with that. Since about two years ago you have been pretty much dead wrong on nearly everything you have said about Garrett and this team. Facts are stubborn things.

Your support of Garrett does you no credit. Last year you took a huge beating on behalf of your Garrett lauding. It proved without a doubt that he is all but useless here. What does he do here? Where is the record or accolades that you keep claiming? Your signature supports that he is the next great Dallas head coach in training. Based on what exactly?

When you start getting things correct on here, maybe your reputation will resurrect itself.

I'll just respond to this by saying you're wrong, and I won't bother to support my opinion either, since that seems to be the game we're playing here.

 

[khiladi]

Lol. You need to look up the meaning of the word 'obfuscate.' I gave you points/offensive series because it's the best measure. Of course I'm not going to adjust the data because we have a good kicker. Or QB. Or whatever. Points scored by bad kickers count as much as points scored by good ones.

You're welcome to make your own supporting argument using actual information instead of just badly second-guessing mine, if you care to. I'll respond to it with my actual opinion if you do.

I'm quite sure what obfuscation is and we've been through this discussion millions of times.

What we are talking about is whether or not this offense is good, not whether they satisfy some mathematical formula to basically absolve the offense of any of the mess this team is in.

You can't blame the defense for our records and then ignore how many points we scored because of TOs generated by them when trying to prop up the offense via the statistic of offensive points per possession in order to once again, blame the defense.

You also can't ignore the TOs our offense committed putting pressure on the defense, which have always been considerably high.

Garrett blamed TOs for losses in 2012, meaning the offense needed more chances. He got them in 2013. We still went 8-8. Their red-zone scoring was pathetic this year, even when they moved the ball with their back-up QBs.

 

[phildadon86]

That would require that Dez learn the offense in a way he hasn't shown he can.

Your kidding right? The times Dez has been moved, its Romo doing the moving, and Dez seems to know exactly what hes doing. Your hatred is showing.

 

[erod]

Your kidding right? The times Dez has been moved, its Romo doing the moving, and Dez seems to know exactly what hes doing. Your hatred is showing.

Dez couldn't read a defensive coverage route adjustment if they put the Madden arrows on the field.

 

[erod]

Dallas 48, Denver 51 shows that both teams had a porous defense and good offense. but Dallas offense came up short .
Some games just turn into a high scoring affair, even teams with good defenses.
Some games turn into low scoring affair even with good offenses.

Our defense has been better than people think for most of most games, but becomes easy to beat in the 4th qtr and very late in games.
Or will blow a ST play like the harris TD.
That is what got hardy mad, the D played hard, it looked like dallas could now win the game, and ST allowed the td return !

2015 the offense was what 31st in points scored, and about 16 in points allowed.

General statements are usually false or have flaws. So saying JG has been a great O coach, and offense has not been the problem,
is false and full of flaws.
Take Romo out and you can see the JG offense is quite ineffective. They tried 3 other qb last year and could only win 1 game out of 12.

I am confident I could do better than that , with those same qb's and same defense. I think any decent coach could win 4-5 of those games.

Look at the defensive points and yardage allowed in 2013 and 2012.

3 of the last 4 years have been abysmal.

 

[phildadon86]

Dez couldn't read a defensive coverage route adjustment if they put the Madden arrows on the field.

Yet he somehow managed his way to 56 touchdowns in 5 seasons. Who knew

 

[erod]

Yet he somehow managed his way to 56 touchdowns in 5 seasons. Who knew

Because he has awesome talent and a Hall of Fame worthy QB that knows how to use him perfectly.

 

[CowboyRoy]

That list was points/offensive series, not yardage. And offensive points/series is a better measure than points/game in this case because it's adjusted for 1, offensive points only and 2, the number of possessions/game the offense gets which you really need to do to get a fair measurement of productivity.



I'll just point out that you got that data entirely and directly from my own post, which you didn't read properly in the first time. I didn't hide anything whatsoever to support an agenda.

I'll also point out that my argument (had you comprehended it properly) was clearly and specifically regarding Garrett's offense under Romo, which is why I provided the 2010 and 2015 seasons' performance separately. Tony started 6 and 4 games those seasons, respectively.

Of course it was ONLY under Romo. Because 2015 without Romo didnt support your agenda. Can you comprehend that?

 

[CowboyRoy]

I'll just respond to this by saying you're wrong, and I won't bother to support my opinion either, since that seems to be the game we're playing here.

Right, that's what you always do. Just tell people they are wrong. With nothing of substance to back it up. What am I wrong about exactly?

Who has been more accurate about Garrett you or me? How about the run game you or me?

 

[CowboyRoy]

I'll just respond to this by saying you're wrong, and I won't bother to support my opinion either, since that seems to be the game we're playing here.

These two quotes in your signature.....................you obviously agree with them or they wouldnt be there. Is Garrett one of the greatest coaches in the NFL? That one quote alone makes you look silly. And you continue to keep it there. That is not my fault. You do that all on your own.

Roger Staubach on Jason Garrett: "He gets better and better. I think he is going to be one of the great coaches in the NFL."

Dallas Cowboys WRs coach Derek Dooley: "This is, I feel like, the best staff I've been a part of."

 

[TheCount]

Thanks. I'd say you're just wrong. But if you'd care to provide context that suggest what the statistics clearly say is in fact, wrong, knock yourself out. I shouldn't have to provide the context for both sides of the argument, should I?

I know arguments are fun, but every now and then it's great to just be an adult and have a conversation with another adult.

You turned my original statement, in which I stated "I don't completely agree." (which, by the way, means that I'm recognizing there was some validity to the statement I was responding to) into some sort of pissing contest for absolutely no reason.

 

[visionary]

I, like many here on the zone, believe the Jerry thinks of Garrett as one of his home grown kids.
Stephen likes him too and he seems to fit into the family. Garrett has been a .500 coach and
he has to break that mold this year or Jerry will look for someone else. Now, you have to
also remember that Landry has some bad years his first few as the Cowboys head coach all
those years ago. Maybe Garrett will improve, we hope, but I will say that Garrett is not the
innovator that Landry was... No way, no how!!!

So did Garrett take over an expansion team?

I'm so confused.....

 

[visionary]

I really wanted Garrett to work out. I still hope he does, but besides everything coming together in 2014, his reign has been pretty disappointing. Unfortunately, I think we will look back at the Romo years with some regret that we have had so little playoff success with an elite or near elite QB. When you find that QB, that is when you typically win. I hope I am wrong and Romo can have more success in the playoffs.

Pick up any top 5-7 QB in recent years and look at their playoff record

Then look at Romos

Then place the blame where it rightly belongs, the jerry/Stephen/ Jason triumvirate

 

[BrassCowboy]

You think he is a good OC? Why? I see him as a horrible OC. As far as intelligent, I guess I can give him that, but it surely doesnt translate into football smarts. He gets out coached consistently on game day and with scheme.

Well I am the not the person you need to convince of that.

 

[MikeT22]

In hindsight, if the goal was to maximize the prime years of Romo's career, Garrett was not the right hire. A coach who was more NFL-ready and had less of a learning curve would've been the better option. Even Jerry has admitted to Garrett's mistakes.

Does this Garrett should be fired? Absolutely not. We aren't going to get Romo's prime years back. The mistake has already been made. You don't compound one bad decision with a second rash decision.

At this point firing him wouldn't be a rash decision. Why compound it by keeping someone that isn't getting it done?

 

[Idgit]

I know arguments are fun, but every now and then it's great to just be an adult and have a conversation with another adult.

You turned my original statement, in which I stated "I don't completely agree." (which, by the way, means that I'm recognizing there was some validity to the statement I was responding to) into some sort of pissing contest for absolutely no reason.

We must have different types of adults in our acquaintance. In my group, if we engage in a debate in a public forum environment, we try to offer arguments we intend to support. If they're countered, we provide our own evidence to the contrary, or just acknowledge that maybe we didn't think things through carefully in this specific instance.

My apologies if I wrongly interpreted "I don't completely agree" to mean that you in fact did not agree when it turns out it might have meant the opposite.

 

[DandyDon52]

Look at the defensive points and yardage allowed in 2013 and 2012.

3 of the last 4 years have been abysmal.

well lets keep it to 2014-15, that is the more current defense.
We should also keep in mind that the offense if low in TOP hurts the defense, also turnovers on our side of the 50 or just a short field Do too.
Settling for FG's too often puts undue pressure on the defense.

In 2015 if you look at the game scores, and by qtr too, you can see the defense played good enough to win in just about every game.

Our offense was just too inept.
The 1st 2 games with romo they only scored 2 fg's in the 1st half, and I think only 7 in miami game, as one td was from rolando's pick 6.
Then Carolina again they were inept.
When you lose 10-6 or 13-12 you shouldnt blame the defense.
In 2014 our defense was helped by our offense in top and scoring, and they had a few bad games, but all teams do.
The GB game in playoffs, peppers played great, and he made the difference in that game as much as rodgers and his wr did on offense.

Also if Rodgers gets on a roll how many defenses can stop him??

So overall our defense hasnt been great, but i think a little above avg, and not a bad defense.
They do play bad in the 4th qtr though, but I think that is on marinelli not the players.

 

[DandyDon52]

The bottom line is jason is a .500 coach, has been for years, and has never been a great OC, he just had and wasted tony romo.
He is a friend of the jones family, and he is a puppet HC.
Jerry and stephen aka the jones boys, they meddle quite a bit, so Jason has to work with what they give him, and what they want.

He makes 6 mil a year, and he wants to be here long term, so he is not going to rock the boat like he should if he wants to
be more of a winner.

A great example is when jerry came down to the sidelines, and told JG romo was ok to go back in.
no other owner would do that lol, and it was really stupid all things considered, and wheedon was doing ok at the time and the cowboys
were 6-1.
But JG said yes sir and Romo went back in and lost the game.

JG also wanted to stay with weedon , but was told to start cassel, and so he did.
Tony and dez came back too early last year, and that was what the jones wanted , I dont know what JG actually felt on those.

But I have to say it is hard to be a good HC when the owner and his son are meddling at all levels.
and since JG has made what ..20-30 million now, why is he content to continue being a puppet coach ???

My main complaint with him as OC and HC is he keeps doing same plays, same offense and gets same results
yet never changes except for 2014 where they went to the run like they had said they would do for 2 previous years.
His lack of change, and lack of innovation, and the team too often cannot execute things which should not be a problem.

also his lack of ability to provide protection for tony from guys coming in free on some sort of delay.

 

[silver]

Without Romo, our strategy in these recent seasons would have been very different. You can't just take away the single most important player on the team, look at what's left and conclude it wouldn't be good enough and, therefore, it's the coach's fault. Romo's a great player and we're lucky to have him, but if he's not here, there's money that could be spent on other great players we'd be lucky to have and no way of knowing how that might have turned out.

We didn’t have him last year for the most part and we failed to adjust in the way we ran the team. We called plays and came up with game plans as if we still had Romo and Murray. That's on the coaches for failing to adjust. Denver, Houston, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati all lost their QB's for a while and didn’t collapse like we did.