Garrett from MMQB

[CowboyRoy]

Never have I been so, nor have I seen so many others, torn up & down on a HC.

I mean the positives on Jason Garrett: I think he knows football. I think he is a good moral person and expects the same from his players. I think he has the ability to get his players to look up to him. He holds himself up and presents himself as a HC.

Why do you think he knows football? I would not call that his strength.

 

[DandyDon52]

The offense has far outperformed the defense during the span in question here. It's not even close.

only because of romo, 2015 showed JG without Romo, and he was 1-11.

Also in the past the offense has contributed to many of the losses.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

In hindsight, if the goal was to maximize the prime years of Romo's career, Garrett was not the right hire. A coach who was more NFL-ready and had less of a learning curve would've been the better option. Even Jerry has admitted to Garrett's mistakes.

Does this Garrett should be fired? Absolutely not. We aren't going to get Romo's prime years back. The mistake has already been made. You don't compound one bad decision with a second rash decision.

I think there is a lot to be said for....."This is our Coach, and its not changing!"

Having said, that ,,,,2 more -4-12 seasons, maybe one more.....and JJ will HAVE to do something......such is the nature of not only the NFL, but todays world.

 

[khiladi]

TO also thinks Garrett leaks information on players and isn't open to issues about the offense.

http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/d...-garrett-leaked-information-got-chased-dallas

Looks like Garrett's MO for poor performance is to hide behind the reputation of players like TO and Hardy...

 

[CowboyRoy]

TO also thinks Garrett leaks information on players and isn't open to issues about the offense.

http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/d...-garrett-leaked-information-got-chased-dallas

Looks like Garrett's MO for poor performance is to hide behind the reputation of players like TO and Hardy...

Remember Crayton coming out and talking about how once Wade got fired he busted out this brand new playbook? As if Garrett was holding out on stuff with the offense. As if sabotaging Wade's tenure as head coach.

 

[CATCH17]

so that's your excuse? he's got an "elite qb" so average is how you prove your worth? how good ONE player is?

he's the coach. he needs to make the team work together. in my mind he's failed. at times it seems we win in spite of garret and seldom because of him. has happened, but rare. so to sit there and say he's got romo, ero, average is the new horrible is nothing more than an agenda on display.

Garrett created my agenda.

I wanted to like him. It's not my fault he sucks.

 

[khiladi]

lol, yep.

2014: 2nd
2013: 4th
2012: 10th
2011: 8th

Here's where we ranked the four years under Garrett with Romo primarily in the lineup on a points/offensive series basis. (For the curious, we were 11th in 2010 and 27th in 2015). Top 10 every season and trending upward. Weird that it doesn't match up with your eye test.

Yardage doesn't equal points, nor does it equal red zone scoring.. We aren't anywhere near those ranking.. Not points per game overall.

Also, TOs is a pretty big indicator of win-losses and our offense has been TO prone since Garrett's tenure here.

 

[BrassCowboy]

Why do you think he knows football? I would not call that his strength.

welllll, I gave that to him because he isn't a bad offensive coordinator and all reports say he is really intelligent.

I am on the fence a little with him, the negatives I gave him are truly upsetting to me and something I believe is going to hold us back if he don't get better at it or ATLEAST allow his coordinators more freedom to make adjustments. I hate the idea of changing coaches every 3-4 years and for that I have to believe he needs more time, I'm hoping anyways.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Yardage doesn't equal points, nor does it equal red zone scoring.. We aren't anywhere near those ranking.. Not points per game overall.

Also, TOs is a pretty big indicator of win-losses and our offense has been TO prone since Garrett's tenure here.

The list should be a complete list like this:

2015-27th
2014-2nd
2013-4th
2012-10th
2011-8th

But of course the facts don't support his biased/Garrett loving agenda.

 

[Idgit]

LOL.......more insults, how predictable. When it comes to accurate analysis and team predictions there has been no one on this site that has taken more of a beating than you have. Didnt you just tell a guy what a great post he made talking how Garrett has done a great job? Now you are pointing out the myriad of mistakes he has made. Just face facts...........your boy Garrett has been an abomination as a coach and you were dead wrong about him.

It's not an insult to say you lack reading comprehension when there are multiple direct examples in this thread of you asking questions that were already directly answered or otherwise directly addressed in the very same posts you're quoting. Go back and check. I'm pointing out what happened here, not trying to insult you.

In fact, if you'd take the time to read some of the posts you're responding to thoroughly before replying, you'd probably have a lot better time in the threads. That's just my opinion. I'm sorry if you feel insulted that I think you don't read or understand the posts you're replying to a lot of the time, but I just don't.

Re: my reputation on the site, lol. Thanks for your interpretation of things, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't give your opinion in this regard any weight whatsoever. In the grand scale of people I disagree with on topics of the Dallas Cowboys, this one weighs in between 'nothing' and 'a popcorn fart.' For what it's worth, there was a time posters like you thought my reputation was in shreds for daring to suggest that Mike Zimmer and Sean Payton were pretty good coaches, too. Or that Terrence Newman wasn't really done at CB after his time in Dallas. If I measured being right according to popular consensus and not, you know, actually being right, I'd probably agree with you.

Re: Garrett, I've been very straightforward with my assessment of him from day one. I'm capable of thinking he's both a very good coach and has multiple things to work on at the same time. And that's not exactly an elevated approach to looking at something, Roy. You think he's an abomination based off of whatever passes for reasoning in that unsupported argument, and that's fine. I have zero interest in changing your opinion on the topic. But there are a lot of posters on the board who like to exchange actual ideas on topics like these. Those are the people I'm primarily replying to.

 

[CowboyRoy]

welllll, I gave that to him because he isn't a bad offensive coordinator and all reports say he is really intelligent.

I am on the fence a little with him, the negatives I gave him are truly upsetting to me and something I believe is going to hold us back if he don't get better at it or ATLEAST allow his coordinators more freedom to make adjustments. I hate the idea of changing coaches every 3-4 years and for that I have to believe he needs more time, I'm hoping anyways.

You think he is a good OC? Why? I see him as a horrible OC. As far as intelligent, I guess I can give him that, but it surely doesnt translate into football smarts. He gets out coached consistently on game day and with scheme.

 

[DandyDon52]

You said the two were equally as bad.

Romo has broken every passing record in existence. Murray broke Emmitt's season rushing record. Witten has broken all sorts of records, and receivers have been made millionaires in free agency.

I will agree that the offense was extremely one-dimensional prior to building the offensive line.

But no, the defense hasn't been anywhere on par with the offense. I give you Dallas 48, Denver 51 as example, as well as countless other 30-point efforts that went as losses.

Dallas 48, Denver 51 shows that both teams had a porous defense and good offense. but Dallas offense came up short .
Some games just turn into a high scoring affair, even teams with good defenses.
Some games turn into low scoring affair even with good offenses.

Our defense has been better than people think for most of most games, but becomes easy to beat in the 4th qtr and very late in games.
Or will blow a ST play like the harris TD.
That is what got hardy mad, the D played hard, it looked like dallas could now win the game, and ST allowed the td return !

2015 the offense was what 31st in points scored, and about 16 in points allowed.

General statements are usually false or have flaws. So saying JG has been a great O coach, and offense has not been the problem,
is false and full of flaws.
Take Romo out and you can see the JG offense is quite ineffective. They tried 3 other qb last year and could only win 1 game out of 12.

I am confident I could do better than that , with those same qb's and same defense. I think any decent coach could win 4-5 of those games.

 

[cowboyblue22]

everyone here has there thoughts on garrett and I respect that but personally he has never had any consistency in winning year after year I just don't think he has what it takes to make this team to a championship just like I don't marvin lewis has it to lead bengals any where.Tony is the one carrying the whole team as 2015 has shown us. they have put all there eggs in the basket for this year that within they will be better if they don't things will change next year because garrett wont be back.

 

[Idgit]

only because of romo, 2015 showed JG without Romo, and he was 1-11.

Also in the past the offense has contributed to many of the losses.

I've already pretty much answered this one, so I'll just quote myself here:

Without Romo, our strategy in these recent seasons would have been very different. You can't just take away the single most important player on the team, look at what's left and conclude it wouldn't be good enough and, therefore, it's the coach's fault. Romo's a great player and we're lucky to have him, but if he's not here, there's money that could be spent on other great players we'd be lucky to have and no way of knowing how that might have turned out.

And sure, the offense has contributed to many of the losses. I wouldn't suggest otherwise. There are three phases of the game and they're all important. Overall, though, our offense has been much better than our defense in recent years. There's little doubt, and it always shocks me that people suggest otherwise.

 

[Idgit]

Yardage doesn't equal points, nor does it equal red zone scoring.. We aren't anywhere near those ranking.. Not points per game overall.

Also, TOs is a pretty big indicator of win-losses and our offense has been TO prone since Garrett's tenure here.

That list was points/offensive series, not yardage. And offensive points/series is a better measure than points/game in this case because it's adjusted for 1, offensive points only and 2, the number of possessions/game the offense gets which you really need to do to get a fair measurement of productivity.

The list should be a complete list like this:

2015-27th
2014-2nd
2013-4th
2012-10th
2011-8th

But of course the facts don't support his biased/Garrett loving agenda.

I'll just point out that you got that data entirely and directly from my own post, which you didn't read properly in the first time. I didn't hide anything whatsoever to support an agenda.

I'll also point out that my argument (had you comprehended it properly) was clearly and specifically regarding Garrett's offense under Romo, which is why I provided the 2010 and 2015 seasons' performance separately. Tony started 6 and 4 games those seasons, respectively.

 

[CowboyRoy]

It's not an insult to say you lack reading comprehension when there are multiple direct examples in this thread of you asking questions that were already directly answered or otherwise directly addressed in the very same posts you're quoting. Go back and check. I'm pointing out what happened here, not trying to insult you.

In fact, if you'd take the time to read some of the posts you're responding to thoroughly before replying, you'd probably have a lot better time in the threads. That's just my opinion. I'm sorry if you feel insulted that I think you don't read or understand the posts you're replying to a lot of the time, but I just don't.

Re: my reputation on the site, lol. Thanks for your interpretation of things, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't give your opinion in this regard any weight whatsoever. In the grand scale of people I disagree with on topics of the Dallas Cowboys, this one weighs in between 'nothing' and 'a popcorn fart.' For what it's worth, there was a time posters like you thought my reputation was in shreds for daring to suggest that Mike Zimmer and Sean Payton were pretty good coaches, too. Or that Terrence Newman wasn't really done at CB after his time in Dallas. If I measured being right according to popular consensus and not, you know, actually being right, I'd probably agree with you.

Re: Garrett, I've been very straightforward with my assessment of him from day one. I'm capable of thinking he's both a very good coach and has multiple things to work on at the same time. And that's not exactly an elevated approach to looking at something, Roy. You think he's an abomination based off of whatever passes for reasoning in that unsupported argument, and that's fine. I have zero interest in changing your opinion on the topic. But there are a lot of posters on the board who like to exchange actual ideas on topics like these. Those are the people I'm primarily replying to.

Garrett has been terrible, that is fact. There is nothing that Garrett has done that has been "very good". That is a myth that you continue to see for whatever reason. As far as Sean Payton or whatever nonsense you are babbling about I have nothing to do with that. Since about two years ago you have been pretty much dead wrong on nearly everything you have said about Garrett and this team. Facts are stubborn things.

Your support of Garrett does you no credit. Last year you took a huge beating on behalf of your Garrett lauding. It proved without a doubt that he is all but useless here. What does he do here? Where is the record or accolades that you keep claiming? Your signature supports that he is the next great Dallas head coach in training. Based on what exactly?

When you start getting things correct on here, maybe your reputation will resurrect itself.

 

[khiladi]

The list should be a complete list like this:

2015-27th
2014-2nd
2013-4th
2012-10th
2011-8th

But of course the facts don't support his biased/Garrett loving agenda.

If you look at 2013, our worst defense historically, we actually generated 28 TOs when we were 4th in yardage.

Our last year, 2012, with Rob Ryan, we only had 17 TOs by the defense. The TOs was the reason they gave for firing Ryan.

We committed 7 TOs our last three games in 2013, failing to make the playoffs.

Against the Lions that year, the defense gave the offense 4 TOs and their defense didn't force a single TO and we still lost, because we couldn't score outside the TOs provides by the defense in scoring range.

 

[iceberg]

Garrett created my agenda.

I wanted to like him. It's not my fault he sucks.

not my fault he sucks either. but that still doesn't mean i need to go making crap up to make him look worse than he is to make my mental state of mind more complete for some reason.

 

[khiladi]

That list was points/offensive series, not yardage. And offensive points/series is a better measure than points/game in this case because it's adjusted for 1, offensive points only and 2, the number of possessions/game the offense gets which you really need to do to get a fair measurement of productivity.



I'll just point out that you got that data entirely and directly from my own post, which you didn't read properly in the first time. I didn't hide anything whatsoever to support an agenda.

I'll also point out that my argument (had you comprehended it properly) was clearly and specifically regarding Garrett's offense under Romo, which is why I provided the 2010 and 2015 seasons' performance separately. Tony started 6 and 4 games those seasons, respectively.

I know you provided that points/offensive series, meaning you obfuscated. You showed what supported your point, but ignored what didn't support your point.

That stat doesn't adjust for drives that started with TOs for example, that end up being the result of TDs. It also doesn't take into account all the FGs we kicked, because our kicker is money, so even when our offense stalls our kicker at least gets is done points. You know, like this year, when Garrett kept settling for FGs when we needed TDs. And when you take into account our red-zone scoring consistently falling, their goes how you score.

 

[Idgit]

I like that your response to my original point, which was that stats need context, is to post stats with no context, all while being a jerk about it. Bravo.

Thanks. I'd say you're just wrong. But if you'd care to provide context that suggest what the statistics clearly say is in fact, wrong, knock yourself out. I shouldn't have to provide the context for both sides of the argument, should I?