Garrett from MMQB

[DandyDon52]

You think he is a good OC? Why? I see him as a horrible OC. As far as intelligent, I guess I can give him that, but it surely doesnt translate into football smarts. He gets out coached consistently on game day and with scheme.

JG is pretty smart when it comes to keeping his job, and not only that but getting a raise in pay!!
He also must handle the jones boys pretty good, as they have kept him on, and he would have to do real bad to be let go.
So his politics are pretty good.

As Offensive coach he is stubborn, lacks innovation, and wants to keep using his offense, not letting the OC linehan do his own
offense.
Linehan is jasons puppet, and he just gets to call JG's plays, and sometimes I wonder about that, as JG always has the play sheets in
his pants, and a head set so....

 

[TheCount]

We must have different types of adults in our acquaintance.

Yes, we must.

 

[Nav22]

NO, your point is just woefully low standard. So what is your point that we arent really the laughing stock of the NFL because we won half our games? Wow, great point. For a proud Dallas fan, being 500 for how many years is a joke. But hey, at least were not really the laughing stock.

Ah, so it was the reading comprehension thing after all.

 

[CowboyRoy]

JG is pretty smart when it comes to keeping his job, and not only that but getting a raise in pay!!
He also must handle the jones boys pretty good, as they have kept him on, and he would have to do real bad to be let go.
So his politics are pretty good.

As Offensive coach he is stubborn, lacks innovation, and wants to keep using his offense, not letting the OC linehan do his own
offense.
Linehan is jasons puppet, and he just gets to call JG's plays, and sometimes I wonder about that, as JG always has the play sheets in
his pants, and a head set so....

No argument there. Garrett is about as good a politician as it comes. And continues to convince the players that losing or being mediocre is just fine.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I know arguments are fun, but every now and then it's great to just be an adult and have a conversation with another adult.

You turned my original statement, in which I stated "I don't completely agree." (which, by the way, means that I'm recognizing there was some validity to the statement I was responding to) into some sort of pissing contest for absolutely no reason.

When he runs out of facts or legitimate things to say he tells you that you are wrong and scuttles away.

 

[TheCount]

When he runs out of facts or legitimate things to say he tells you that you are wrong and scuttles away.

Yeah, I don't know. There are times I actually find him reasonable and respectful of reasoned arguments even if they differ from his opinions. This was not one of those times.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Yeah, I don't know. There are times I actually find him reasonable and respectful of reasoned arguments even if they differ from his opinions. This was not one of those times.

Sometimes he can be reasonable, but its always talking down his nose at you as if he knows better than everyone what is going on. Rarely takes a hard stance on things so he can skirt out the back door if he needs to. Then when you really challenge him to explain himself he just tells you that you are wrong with little to back it up. At least that has been my experience. But no doubt the two of us have been going at if for some time.

 

[Idgit]

Sometimes he can be reasonable, but its always talking down his nose at you as if he knows better than everyone what is going on. Rarely takes a hard stance on things so he can skirt out the back door if he needs to. Then when you really challenge him to explain himself he just tells you that you are wrong with little to back it up. At least that has been my experience. But no doubt the two of us have been going at if for some time.

I don't 'scuttle away.' I tell you to your face that it's not worth the effort to continue the discussion. I hadn't gotten back to this thread yet. To be completely honest, Roy, debating you is like having somebody try to kill you with a bouquet of helium balloons. You know there's no actual danger, but you're still getting buffeted, so that's annoying. When I got back to a thread, the one point we were debating had become ~6 barely-related posts. Sure, they're super easy to pop. That's not the problem. But is it worth the effort when each popped argument is likely to create another two or three barely related response posts?

Yes, I still like Jason Garrett as a head coach and the staff in general. Yes, I have quotes in my signature from other people who like Jason Garrett and the staff to point out that consensus in the Rant Zone and consensus in the real world are not the same. Yes, I was still right about the running game and you were still wrong, even though I don't remember our actual exchange on that topic. No, I don't understand why you think any of those things have changed since the end of the season and, no, I don't intend to go around in circles on the topics with you again.

No doubt, your experience interacting with me is different from @TheCount's experience. That's because TheCount knows what he's talking about, so I don't really try to condescend to him. Maybe I was in this thread earlier, I didn't realize I was. I thought I was debating. But the defense sucking is a bit of a sore spot with me because it's been a debilitating problem for years and it's not getting better fast enough and nobody ever wants to acknowledge it or talk about it, so maybe I ended up playing a bit more hardball than usual.

Anyway, there's no reason for 'the two of us to be going at it.' For a long time, I was just not responding to your posts when you followed me around from thread to thread. Maybe that's the best policy, because it's no fun for me scooping up argument after argument and taking it out to the trash. And it's probably no fun for you having me complain about having to do so and generally pointing out that you don't bother to read the posts you're responding to very carefully.

How 'bout this: I'll give you the last word here, and then we'll go back to me just not responding. Everybody will be happier, including the posters who enter threads like this one and just want to talk about that topic at hand for a while.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I don't 'scuttle away.' I tell you to your face that it's not worth the effort to continue the discussion. I hadn't gotten back to this thread yet. To be completely honest, Roy, debating you is like having somebody try to kill you with a bouquet of helium balloons. You know there's no actual danger, but you're still getting buffeted, so that's annoying. When I got back to a thread, the one point we were debating had become ~6 barely-related posts. Sure, they're super easy to pop. That's not the problem. But is it worth the effort when each popped argument is likely to create another two or three barely related response posts?

Yes, I still like Jason Garrett as a head coach and the staff in general. Yes, I have quotes in my signature from other people who like Jason Garrett and the staff to point out that consensus in the Rant Zone and consensus in the real world are not the same. Yes, I was still right about the running game and you were still wrong, even though I don't remember our actual exchange on that topic. No, I don't understand why you think any of those things have changed since the end of the season and, no, I don't intend to go around in circles on the topics with you again.

No doubt, your experience interacting with me is different from @TheCount's experience. That's because TheCount knows what he's talking about, so I don't really try to condescend to him. Maybe I was in this thread earlier, I didn't realize I was. I thought I was debating. But the defense sucking is a bit of a sore spot with me because it's been a debilitating problem for years and it's not getting better fast enough and nobody ever wants to acknowledge it or talk about it, so maybe I ended up playing a bit more hardball than usual.

Anyway, there's no reason for 'the two of us to be going at it.' For a long time, I was just not responding to your posts when you followed me around from thread to thread. Maybe that's the best policy, because it's no fun for me scooping up argument after argument and taking it out to the trash. And it's probably no fun for you having me complain about having to do so and generally pointing out that you don't bother to read the posts you're responding to very carefully.

How 'bout this: I'll give you the last word here, and then we'll go back to me just not responding. Everybody will be happier, including the posters who enter threads like this one and just want to talk about that topic at hand for a while.

If you dont want to talk to me, no problem. But dont talk down to me and insult me, then scuttle away. It would please me greatly if you would either man up and have a discussion or dont talk to me at all. You might find that our discussions take on a better tone if you don't insult me.

Here is the last word........................

So you think that quote of yours about Jason Garrett being the next great NFL coach speaks about how the NFL landscape REALLY feels about Garrett? You have to be hiding in a box to actually believe that. Most of the fan base has even turned on him. Even on THE ZONE you rarely see anyone stick up for Garrett anymore. Your love for Garrett does you not favors.

And now the run game. So you don't remember the conversation, yet you were right and I was wrong?

Let me remind you about it. I was complaining all off season as were others about the RB's we had and that the run game would suffer and not be the same. You said the run game wasnt that important and we would be just fine.

Randle got dumped, Dunbar got hurt AGAIN!! Outside of McFadden staying healthy and having a respectful 2nd half of the year, you pretty much whiffed clean on that one. And certainly 4-12 is far from "they will be fine"

Anything else you want to rehash?

Notice that I dont insult you, or I dont scuttle away and avoid the discussion. Trying sticking in there for once. Admitting you were wrong isnt so hard.

I was wrong about McFadden getting hurt. I admit it. No big deal.

 

[Idgit]

JG is pretty smart when it comes to keeping his job, and not only that but getting a raise in pay!!
He also must handle the jones boys pretty good, as they have kept him on, and he would have to do real bad to be let go.
So his politics are pretty good.

As Offensive coach he is stubborn, lacks innovation, and wants to keep using his offense, not letting the OC linehan do his own
offense.
Linehan is jasons puppet, and he just gets to call JG's plays, and sometimes I wonder about that, as JG always has the play sheets in
his pants, and a head set so....

What makes you think he's not letting Linehan do what he wants to do? The two of them had a good previous relationship, and they seem to be on really good terms still. There was lots of talk about the changes to the offense and to the play calling when Linehan took over.

Is it just the HC having the play sheets and the headphones that makes you wonder?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That's probably right.

Dez is obviously not what I would call a student of the game, but I won't sit here and say Dez is the reason they're not creative on offense though. They're not creative with anyone. They've been telling us for how long now that they're going to use two TE's and how has that worked out? Even with Dez out, they made no adjustments to the a floundering offense. They didn't move Williams. They ignored Beasley for half the season. Screens? Nah!

It's an archaic offensive system that relies on the competitiveness and inventiveness of Romo on the field.

They started moving Dez around. He started getting a lot of mileage dragging out of the slot for example. He should continue to improve.

Williams not moving is not necessarily their fault and Beasley disappeared because Cassell/Weeden were afraid to throw into the middle of the field; Beasley in turn stopped looking for the ball. They actually started calling Beasley's number to get him the ball. That included bubble screens to him and Lucky. They did that jet sweep action as well. They adjusted their running playcalls to fit DMC's strengths and they had a good amount of success. Credit to the oline for that as well.

I like how Linehan attacks defenses with depth on routes. With talented receivers those deep ins are money and traumatize DBs. Body catching can be a problem.

The QB play was awful. It's like when the backups suck at practice you cannot evaluate anything.

I would like for them to attack the flats with RB in combination with the downfield stuff more often. Watching Sean Payton and others wreck teams with it has made me a fan of the strategy. They tried with Dunbar but he broke down. DMC is capable of it but last year he was the new guy learning the offense. We do need help at RB.

 

[DandyDon52]

What makes you think he's not letting Linehan do what he wants to do? The two of them had a good previous relationship, and they seem to be on really good terms still. There was lots of talk about the changes to the offense and to the play calling when Linehan took over.

Is it just the HC having the play sheets and the headphones that makes you wonder?

Well for the most part the plays look the same, or at least the bulk of them.
A lot of sideline routes , rarely using the middle of the field, which is JG style.
Linehan may tweak some plays, and he may have added a few, but JG is a controlling guy where the offense is concerned,
so I imagine any new plays he has to approve. and I think basically they are still using JG's playbook.

Linehan does seem to control the play calling during the game.

HC having the play sheets....... how many HC who are not the OC have play sheets stuck in their pants or carry them around ??
They all have head set. but those could be used in a devious manner.

 

[Idgit]

....HC having the play sheets....... how many HC who are not the OC have play sheets stuck in their pants or carry them around ??
They all have head set. but those could be used in a devious manner.

I imagine they all have play sheets, don't they? It'd be weird for them not to have them in today's game.

The play calling changed fairly significantly when Linehan came in. It was a fairly frequent topic of conversation going from Callahan to Garrett to Linehan, and Romo, in particular, talked about the differences and how much he liked having Linehan back there last year. The offense is the offense, and the overall system didn't change entirely, but I think Linehan's less of a puppet than your post above suggests. Just my two cents.

 

[DandyDon52]

I imagine they all have play sheets, don't they? It'd be weird for them not to have them in today's game.

The play calling changed fairly significantly when Linehan came in. It was a fairly frequent topic of conversation going from Callahan to Garrett to Linehan, and Romo, in particular, talked about the differences and how much he liked having Linehan back there last year. The offense is the offense, and the overall system didn't change entirely, but I think Linehan's less of a puppet than your post above suggests. Just my two cents.

Well I could be wrong, wouldnt be the first time
The thing is they dont let us know much about any of it, so we have to speculate on the details, and we all have
different ideas on what does go on.
But I think for some coaches, they bring in a OC and the OC will install his offense, not work with the HC's offense.

It was a weird situation here where JG was OC/HC, then he had to let someone else call the plays per jerry, and I know
that is debatable too.
So he brought in linehan who he did know, and you could say someone he could get to do the offense how he wanted it done.
And I dont think linehan is a total puppet, he cant be,but he isnt a independent OC either.
but it is just speculation.

 

[CowboyRoy]

What makes you think he's not letting Linehan do what he wants to do? The two of them had a good previous relationship, and they seem to be on really good terms still. There was lots of talk about the changes to the offense and to the play calling when Linehan took over.

Is it just the HC having the play sheets and the headphones that makes you wonder?

I agree that Linehan since 2014 has been running things. But you cant help but wonder that playing overly conservative and telling the backup QB's to check down and not throw down the field was Garretts doing. It goes in line with his mantra and mindset.

 

[PoundTheRock]

After 2014, what choice did Jerry have? Can you imagine if he didn't? People were screaming around here.

That's one signing I'll never blame Jerry for, no matter how it turns out. There was no choice.

The problem is Garrett should have never been around to coach the team in 2014. Ultimately, we're gonna look back on that year as a fluke that stopped progress. It caused bad evaluations in terms of personnel on the field and in on the sideline. We should be drafting a QB this season, but probably won't because of the false hope of Romo. We should have a different head coach, but we don't because the Cowboys won in spite of Garrett one year.

 

[erod]

The problem is Garrett should have never been around to coach the team in 2014. Ultimately, we're gonna look back on that year as a fluke that stopped progress. It caused bad evaluations in terms of personnel on the field and in on the sideline. We should be drafting a QB this season, but probably won't because of the false hope of Romo. We should have a different head coach, but we don't because the Cowboys won in spite of Garrett one year.

I agree with none of that.

And if this draft is full of 10 Jake Lockers and Blaine Gabberts, which it very well may be, do you still want to draft one?

 

[PoundTheRock]

I agree with none of that.

And if this draft is full of 10 Jake Lockers and Blaine Gabberts, which it very well may be, do you still want to draft one?

You don't know what any of those guys will be before they touch the field. I do know that we have 36 year old QB with a body held together with paper and spit. Behind him is possibly the worst QB 2 in football. This situation being in place with a coaching staff and Fo who could only win one game without the brittle geezer QB1.

 

[erod]

You don't know what any of those guys will be before they touch the field. I do know that we have 36 year old QB with a body held together with paper and spit. Behind him is possibly the worst QB 2 in football. This situation being in place with a coaching staff and Fo who could only win one game without the brittle geezer QB1.

Lost Romo and Dez after letting Murray go, never had Scandrick, and then had to play against Ryan, Brady, Brees, Wilson, and Eli. No coach manages that.

So you're saying Belichick could have lost Brady, Gronk, and his best corner, and just rolled on like nothing happened against those QBs?

Seattle could have lost Wilson, Baldwin, and Sherman, and cruised on without issue?

The Packers could lose Rodgers, Jordy, and Shields, and nary miss a step.

C'mon, dude. Learn some football.

 

[PoundTheRock]

Belichick had an 11 win season with the lord of the backups himself.

Mike McCarthy came into Dallas a couple of seasons ago and undressed Garrett with Matt Flynn and held his team together to make the playoffs.

We make excuses, other teams go win games.