George Zimmerman charged with 2nd degree murder of Trayvon Martin **Read Post #142**

[casmith07]

True that. Not exactly sure what it would be in Florida, as I'm not very familiar with their laws. But from what I gather, the difference between states is more in the sentencing of each degree, not differences in the degrees of murder themselves, right?

Well, not necessarily.

Almost all states have based their homicide statutes on the model penal code, which breaks homicide down into three main categories: murder, manslaughter, and negligent homicide.

Murder also has three main mental states, or "mens rea." Murder's main requirement stems from old common law, "malice aforethought" or premeditated murder. Nowadays if you look in statutes, you'll see "purposely" as the main buzz word. The others are "knowingly" meaning that the killer had a reasonable belief that he could cause a death, and the last deals with recklessness, where they should know the risks but ignore them but act anyway.

Murder is then broken into degrees centered around the mental state of the killer, generally speaking. First degree being purposely, second degree being knowingly, and third degree being with extreme recklessness.

Manslaughter doesn't require premeditation/malice aforethought. It's still an unlawful killing, but unplanned.

Negligent homicide is an accidental killing brought about by negligence on the part of the killer.

The crazy part comes in where some states change "negligent homicide" to read as "involuntary manslaughter" or have varying degrees of manslaughter.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

I hope the trial is televised.

There are enough screwballs already bent out of shape over this. We don't need the coming circus to be on TV.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Just my opinion, but he should plea bargain to Manslaughter and avoid a trial at all costs.

Doesn't matter. He already has a death sentence. He will never survive in gen pop.

Too much damage has been done and there are a lot of people culpable in that.

 

[justbob]

Doesn't matter. He already has a death sentence. He will never survive in gen pop.

Too much damage has been done and there are a lot of people culpable in that.

Which is terrible ,because he may be innocent

 

[CowboyMike]

Well, not necessarily.

Almost all states have based their homicide statutes on the model penal code, which breaks homicide down into three main categories: murder, manslaughter, and negligent homicide.

Murder also has three main mental states, or "mens rea." Murder's main requirement stems from old common law, "malice aforethought" or premeditated murder. Nowadays if you look in statutes, you'll see "purposely" as the main buzz word. The others are "knowingly" meaning that the killer had a reasonable belief that he could cause a death, and the last deals with recklessness, where they should know the risks but ignore them but act anyway.

Murder is then broken into degrees centered around the mental state of the killer, generally speaking. First degree being purposely, second degree being knowingly, and third degree being with extreme recklessness.

Manslaughter doesn't require premeditation/malice aforethought. It's still an unlawful killing, but unplanned.

Negligent homicide is an accidental killing brought about by negligence on the part of the killer.

The crazy part comes in where some states change "negligent homicide" to read as "involuntary manslaughter" or have varying degrees of manslaughter.

Gotcha.

 

[CowboyMike]

Doesn't matter. He already has a death sentence. He will never survive in gen pop.

Too much damage has been done and there are a lot of people culpable in that.

Which is terrible ,because he may be innocent

Whether he is guilty or not guilty, he still pulled the trigger.

He may not serve a sentence, but he'll have to pay a price for making that decision. It may not be right that he won't live normally among the general population, but it's going to be his consequence. It may not be completely his fault, but it is most definitely partially his fault.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Which is terrible ,because he may be innocent

Yep. He will never get a fair jury trial now. That has been denied him by the usual suspects. He is better off pleading to a lesser charge and being put in as much protective custody as possible. But either way, if he would be found not guilty, he would be dead within a week of being released. And then his death will be on the heads of those who denied him the due process.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Whether he is guilty or not guilty, he still pulled the trigger.

He may not serve a sentence, but he'll have to pay a price for making that decision. It may not be right that he won't live normally among the general population, but it's going to be his consequence. It may not be completely his fault, but it is most definitely partially his fault.

Pulling a trigger doesn't automatically make you guilty of a crime.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

The Trajectory of the bullet will be a factor. Was Trayvon truly on top at the time of the shot? Maybe the Autopsy results on his body played a part in them going with 2nd degree.


The screams on the 911 tapes could have also played a factor. Wonder if they had voice experts test to see if it was Zimmerman before they decided to charge him.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

The Trajectory of the bullet will be a factor. Was Trayvon truly on top at the time of the shot? Maybe the Autopsy results on his body played a part in them going with 2nd degree.


The screams on the 911 tapes could have also played a factor. Wonder if they had voice experts test to see if it was Zimmerman before they decided to charge him.

I hope they didn't use the NBC tape.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

I hope they didn't use the NBC tape.

I don't think NBC edited the tape with the screams

 

[cajuncocoa]

There are enough screwballs already bent out of shape over this. We don't need the coming circus to be on TV.

Yeah, we don't need that...which is why they probably will do it.

Doesn't matter. He already has a death sentence. He will never survive in gen pop.

Too much damage has been done and there are a lot of people culpable in that.

Sad, but true.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

I don't think NBC edited the tape with the screams

I was being facetious.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

I was being facetious.

Oh okay.

 

[casmith07]

Yep. He will never get a fair jury trial now. That has been denied him by the usual suspects. He is better off pleading to a lesser charge and being put in as much protective custody as possible. But either way, if he would be found not guilty, he would be dead within a week of being released. And then his death will be on the heads of those who denied him the due process.

Sorry, but the first line here is absolute bunk.

There have been injustices in the justice system in years past, but the integrity of the trial process and justice system these days is high.

Additionally, all of these things you're saying should have rang true with the Casey Anthony case, and they did not. She walked out of the jail, and has not been killed.

Remove the emotion from it, if at all possible, and look at this as objectively as possible. You're allowing your feelings on the matter to cloud your judgment and reason, and it's not showing up particularly well here.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Sorry, but the first line here is absolute bunk.

There have been injustices in the justice system in years past, but the integrity of the trial process and justice system these days is high.

Additionally, all of these things you're saying should have rang true with the Casey Anthony case, and they did not. She walked out of the jail, and has not been killed.

Remove the emotion from it, if at all possible, and look at this as objectively as possible. You're allowing your feelings on the matter to cloud your judgment and reason, and it's not showing up particularly well here.

Is that right Cas?

How many of these did you see hung up for the Anthony trial?

How many hate group threatened the rest of the population with riots if she walked?

How many news stations doctored tapes to make things seem one way when they were another.

And how am I NOT showing up particularly well here? The fact that I can actually face the reality of the situation that was created by people who have the intelligence of a pea?

No Cas, these two cases are NOTHING alike and you know it.

 

[casmith07]

Is that right Cas?

How many of these did you see hung up for the Anthony trial?

How many hate group threatened the rest of the population with riots if she walked?

How many news stations doctored tapes to make things seem one way when they were another.

And how am I NOT showing up particularly well here? The fact that I can actually face the reality of the situation that was created by people who have the intelligence of a pea?

No Cas, these two cases are NOTHING alike and you know it.

Posters, marches, protests, news tapes, etc. are all not pieces of evidence to be admitted at trial.

The justice system will work. As an aspiring and future member of the system itself, I know this to be true.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Posters, marches, protests, news tapes, etc. are all not pieces of evidence to be admitted at trial.

The justice system will work. As an aspiring and future member of the system itself, I know this to be true.

So you think that people living in that area have not been exposed to this and as such the jury pool hasn't been tainted?

I got to tell you, you are very idealist for living in a realistic world.

And comparing these two cases is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[justbob]

The Trajectory of the bullet will be a factor. Was Trayvon truly on top at the time of the shot? Maybe the Autopsy results on his body played a part in them going with 2nd degree.


The screams on the 911 tapes could have also played a factor. Wonder if they had voice experts test to see if it was Zimmerman before they decided to charge him.

Trajectories can be misleading on the human body.. The ability of the body(s) to assume so many different angles makes if difficult

 

[casmith07]

So you think that people living in that area have not been exposed to this and as such the jury pool hasn't been tainted?

I got to tell you, you are very idealist for living in a realistic world.

And comparing these two cases is absolutely ridiculous.

Again - if that's the case, then why didn't 2 years of continuous negative media coverage of Casey Anthony result in a conviction in the very same state?

I'm not "idealist" - I'm realistic and have seen the process first hand. The system works. You can have the last word. I am not interested in attempting to have an objective discussion of the criminal justice system with anyone far too emotionally invested in the defendant or the victim to have a rational discussion.