George Zimmerman charged with 2nd degree murder of Trayvon Martin **Read Post #142**

[The30YardSlant]

He didn't say you said that. But it has become that by the you know whos of the race baiting world that created this mess. And oh by the way, Zimmerman isn't white. I would think the genius' who came up with all of this would at least get their lies straight.

Yeah, I don't get the whole "white hispanic" thing being thrown around. I've known full blooded latinos who looked MUCH less "hispanic" than he does.

 

[Noryb]

I said that I believe, given the current state of affairs, he would get convicted of manslaughter. There is enough "evidence" I believe to show that his poor judgement let to Trayvon's death, which is all that would need to be shown to convict on that charge.

That could very well change however, and I certainly don't think he will be convicted of murder. I think the prosecution probably caved to public outcry and went against their better judgement, because this charge forces them to PROVE beyond all doubt that he entered into the situation with malicious intent and PROVE that he the final act was still based solely in malice. If they can't prove both, he walks assuming a fair jury.

The jury could still convict on lesser charges such as manslaughter. At least that's my understanding.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

I didn't say that.

I said he could very well be not guilty of the crime. I'm open to the fact that he's innocent.

But regardless of the verdict, there are consequences to pulling the trigger. Even if he is innocent, there are reactions to his action. Just like every decision that anyone makes any day.

He chose to pull the trigger, whether he will pay for it in jail or in some other aspect of his life, he's going to pay for it. I'm not saying it is right, I'm just saying it is fact. Even if Trayvon had beaten Zimmerman senseless and Zimmerman killed him for pure self defense, and he had no other choice but to die himself, he would still have to pay for it.

I'm not talking about the court of law, now. I'm not talking about our system. I'm simply talking about life and the ways of the world. There's a consequence for the decision to take a human life, whether it is right or wrong.

I got ya now. And yes, you are right. But with the way this has played out, his consequences are more sever than anyone else in the same situation.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Doesn't matter. He already has a death sentence. He will never survive in gen pop.

Too much damage has been done and there are a lot of people culpable in that.

Possibly, I think it's a far from a fore gone conclusion though, child molesters, perpatrators of hate crimes, ect make it through prison sentences without being killed. I don't see why he's definately gonna get killed just because of the coverege the trial has recieved.

Now is he in for a difficult time, yes but it is prison after all.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Yeah, I don't get the whole "white hispanic" thing being thrown around. I've known full blooded latinos who looked MUCH less "hispanic" than he does.

It was used to gin up the race angle by the race baiters. They have denied this man due process by making this such a high profile case and the media is just as culpable for giving these freaks a platform to spew their hate.

One of my friends said she just found out she was white Hispanic. She said she never heard of that before. Then she said does that make Obama a white black man? I cracked up. It was hilarious.

 

[WoodysGirl]

What I do know is that there was a ton of outrage over the Casey Anthony trial... We can probably pull the threads in this forum to prove it. The outrage over the killing of a child who didn't receive any justice was a VERY emotional thing. The issue now is that people have moved on. The disgust lingers, but emotionally, people have moved on. As they will when this case is over and done.

And the reality is, people had already emotionally moved on from the Martin case. Some who were gung ho about it two weeks ago were commenting that it's old news now. It took the prosecutor pressing charges to bring it back to the forefront.

Personally, I was impressed with the special prosecutor today. Yes, I'm sure public pressure swayed the state's involvement, but I feel confident that no matter what happens, the proceedings will have been done properly and according to protocol. To me, THAT's justice.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I never said you did, nor does it matter if you did. The media has deemed this a race-related crime and all of the coverage would have you believe that the majority of black Americans agree. What you and I personally believe is irrelevant.

Media or not, this was a race-based crime. It wasn't a hate crime, but I believe Zimmerman profiled Martin according to his race. That doesn't mean I think he's racist. It simply means he saw a young black male and stereotyped him as a thug.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I wouldn't, unless the jury caves to public pressure or some unforseen piece of evidence emerges, there simply isnt enough to prove murder. Given the circumstances, the prosecution essentially has to prove both the act and the intent behind the actions that led to the act.

It's an uphill climb, and I'm shocked they went for a murder charge.

the act is already proven, GZ doesn't deny shooting him and intent is not a factor. while I do think he may walk, he's gonna have to convince a jury that he truly shot Martin in self defense, which should've been the case all along.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Possibly, I think it's a far from a fore gone conclusion though, child molesters, perpatrators of hate crimes, ect make it through prison sentences without being killed. I don't see why he's definately gonna get killed just because of the coverege the trial has recieved.

Now is he in for a difficult time, yes but it is prison after all.

I think there are two possible scenarios in play here.

The prosecutor is under pressure to have a trial and bring charges. Whether they have evidence or not. So they talk to Zimmerman the day before he turns himself in and says your best bet is we charge you with 2nd degree murder which we know we can't prove and you get off. That satisfies for the time being the nuts and gives us a chance to let this settle down.

The other scenario here is that they plan to charge him with 2nd degree murder and then let him plead down with the help of his attorneys and they end up getting some kind of charge that warrants some jail time but in a facility where he would be safe, kinda like a Bernie Madoff type deal.

At the end of the day, no one knows for sure and this is just speculation but I can easily see either of these two scenarios being played out.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

One of my friends said she just found out she was white Hispanic. She said she never heard of that before. Then she said does that make Obama a white black man? I cracked up. It was hilarious.

granted I'm a bit younger than you, but white-hispanic and black-hispanic have been two of the race choices on the SAT since I took them, so it's not something created to describe Zimmerman.

 

[casmith07]

Possibly, I think it's a far from a fore gone conclusion though, child molesters, perpatrators of hate crimes, ect make it through prison sentences without being killed. I don't see why he's definately gonna get killed just because of the coverege the trial has recieved.

Now is he in for a difficult time, yes but it is prison after all.

A voice of reason emerges.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Media or not, this was a race-based crime. It wasn't a hate crime, but I believe Zimmerman profiled Martin according to his race. That doesn't mean I think he's racist. It simply means he saw a young black male and stereotyped him as a thug.

You're also a responsible, mature adult. Regardless of what you believe you arent going to go out and try and do something to the man. Time and again history has shown that not everyone is that civilized.

The black panthers have already put a price on his head. Several notable black preachers have said he deserves God's vengence. He has received countless threats. I think it's clear that there are some who would be willing to let this really get to them and go try and do something about it.

I will pose this question to you however: If Martin was a well to do black man with a nice car, a two-story home and a suit-and-tie kind of man and did this because he thought Martin looked like a typical young black hoodlum, would it still be race-related in your mind?

 

[WoodysGirl]

the act is already proven, GZ doesn't deny shooting him and intent is not a factor. while I do think he may walk, he's gonna have to convince a jury that he truly shot Martin in self defense, which should've been the case all along.

At this point, I don't think he'll have a jury trial. Jury pool is severely tainted. Chances are he'll go the judge route.

 

[justbob]

Human psychology says you wouldnt get over it quite that easy, but I agree with the general sentiment.

Sometimes people force you to kill them. Not saying that's what happened here as I believe Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter, but nobody should be made to feel guilty over killing someone in self-defense.

Sorry if I misread this

 

[casmith07]

I think there are two possible scenarios in play here.

The prosecutor is under pressure to have a trial and bring charges. Whether they have evidence or not. So they talk to Zimmerman the day before he turns himself in and says your best bet is we charge you with 2nd degree murder which we know we can't prove and you get off. That satisfies for the time being the nuts and gives us a chance to let this settle down.

The other scenario here is that they plan to charge him with 2nd degree murder and then let him plead down with the help of his attorneys and they end up getting some kind of charge that warrants some jail time but in a facility where he would be safe, kinda like a Bernie Madoff type deal.

At the end of the day, no one knows for sure and this is just speculation but I can easily see either of these two scenarios being played out.

Or the most likely scenario, that they feel that they have a reasonable chance of success on the merits and are pursuing justice as the law demands.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

They have denied this man due process by making this such a high profile case and the media is just as culpable for giving these freaks a platform to spew their hate.

IMO, you can just as easily blame the police for denying him due proccess. Had they charged him, or kept him in custody till a bail hearing or whatever the "normal" procedures are for a murder, there wouldn't have been this huge circus.

Say what you, but Travon Martin isn't the only black person killed by a person of another race, but this made headlines because the police didn't charge him.

 

[The30YardSlant]

the act is already proven, GZ doesn't deny shooting him and intent is not a factor. while I do think he may walk, he's gonna have to convince a jury that he truly shot Martin in self defense, which should've been the case all along.

They have to prove the reasons behind the act, not simply that a shooting occured. Intent IS absolutely a factor, if he shot him because Trayvon was attacking him it is much different than had he shot him for no reason other than to shoot him.

And Zimmerman doesnt have to prove anything, the burden of proof is always on the prosecution. Zimmerman's defense team only has to provide even the slightest reasonable doubt about ANYTHING and he gets off. The prosecution has to prove EVERYTHING for him to be convicted.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Media or not, this was a race-based crime. It wasn't a hate crime, but I believe Zimmerman profiled Martin according to his race. That doesn't mean I think he's racist. It simply means he saw a young black male and stereotyped him as a thug.

How do you know that? How do you know he didn"t think he was up to something by his actions? We don't know anything of Martin's actions that night when Zimmerman saw him. Was he looking in someone's window? Was he walking through people's yards.

Zimmerman then said he was coming towards him with his hand in his wast band.

No, this wasn't a race based crime. It was, if it is deemed a crime, just a crime. A race based crime would indicate that he targeted him because he was black and not because of his actions. Nothing in his past would indicate that he would do that.

If he was just walking down the street with a 5 year old little girl on his shoulders not doing anything suspicious, you think he would have called 911?

 

[WoodysGirl]

You're also a responsible, mature adult. Regardless of what you believe you arent going to go out and try and do something to the man. Time and again history has shown that not everyone is that civilized.

The black panthers have already put a price on his head. Several notable black preachers have said he deserves God's vengence. He has received countless threats. I think it's clear that there are some who would be willing to let this really get to them and go try and do something about it.

Well, I'm totally against all those wishing death upon the man. I think these newfound black panthers and ambulance chasing activists do more harm than good. I think there's a place for activism, but not EVERY issue requires the same level of rhetoric.

I will pose this question to you however: If Martin was a well to do black man with a nice car, a two-story home and a suit-and-tie kind of man and did this because he thought Martin looked like a typical young black hoodlum, would it still be race-related in your mind?

Absolutely! If he profiled Martin as a young thug and everything happened under the same circumstances, I would still want him arrested or at least a legitimate investigation performed by the authorities.

My issue with Zimmmerman is that I believe he made a serious error in judgment. And this belief is based on him continuing to follow Martin instead of backing off as the operator suggested. That one action alone led to this tragedy, IMO.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Possibly, I think it's a far from a fore gone conclusion though, child molesters, perpatrators of hate crimes, ect make it through prison sentences without being killed. I don't see why he's definately gonna get killed just because of the coverege the trial has recieved.

Now is he in for a difficult time, yes but it is prison after all.

Again, how many posters, marches, death threats and riots have been threatened over the other things you mentioned? Very very very few if any.