George Zimmerman charged with 2nd degree murder of Trayvon Martin **Read Post #142**

[Cajuncowboy]

Or the most likely scenario, that they feel that they have a reasonable chance of success on the merits and are pursuing justice as the law demands.

Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

They have to prove the reasons behind the act, not simply that a shooting occured. Intent IS absolutely a factor, if he shot him because Trayvon was attacking him it is much different than had he shot him for no reason other than to shoot him.

And Zimmerman doesnt have to prove anything, the burden of proof is always on the prosecution. Zimmerman's defense team only has to provide even the slightest reasonable doubt about ANYTHING and he gets off. The prosecution has to prove EVERYTHING for him to be convicted.

Then what would stop me from shooting someone in a park with no witnesses and saying it was self defense? I can even punch the person so they hit me back.

I get that the burden of proof is on the prosecution, but when you've done the act and are pleading not guilty due to insanity, self defense, ect, doesn't the burden of proof some what fall on the defense?

 

[Cajuncowboy]

IMO, you can just as easily blame the police for denying him due proccess. Had they charged him, or kept him in custody till a bail hearing or whatever the "normal" procedures are for a murder, there wouldn't have been this huge circus.

Say what you, but Travon Martin isn't the only black person killed by a person of another race, but this made headlines because the police didn't charge him.

You can't arrest someone unless there is evidence showing probable cause. Heck, you just had the shooter call 911 before the incident to have police come. Does that sound like someone who is trying to kill someone because he is black?

 

[The30YardSlant]

Absolutely! If he profiled Martin as a young thug and everything happened under the same circumstances, I would still want him arrested or at least a legitimate investigation performed by the authorities.

My issue with Zimmmerman is that I believe he made a serious error in judgment. And this belief is based on him continuing to follow Martin instead of backing off as the operator suggested. That one action alone led to this tragedy, IMO.

Fair enough, I respect this line of thinking.

I agree that his outfit and appearence likely played a role, which is why I tend to think Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter as his actions let to Trayvon's death. I really doubt he did anything that constitutes full-blown murder however.

 

[casmith07]

Maybe. Maybe not.

So I ask again - was the state forced into action by the people picketing outside of Casey Anthony's home and the 2-year coverage of the case, along with all of the cries for trial/her death by the general public?

 

[Manwiththeplan]

If he was just walking down the street with a 5 year old little girl on his shoulders not doing anything suspicious, you think he would have called 911?

If he was white and wearing a polo shirt would he have called 911? Or even noticed him?

 

[The30YardSlant]

Then what would stop me from shooting someone in a park with no witnesses and saying it was self defense? I can even punch the person so they hit me back.

If nobody is there to argue against your claim and no physical evidence exists to show otherwise, nothing is stopping you. Would you prefer every person who claims self-defense immediately be charged with murder?

I get that the burden of proof is on the prosecution, but when you've done the act and are pleading not guilty due to insanity, self defense, ect, doesn't the burden of proof some what fall on the defense?

No, the prosecution has to PROVE that you werent insane, acting in self-defense, etc.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Then what would stop me from shooting someone in a park with no witnesses and saying it was self defense? I can even punch the person so they hit me back.

I get that the burden of proof is on the prosecution, but when you've done the act and are pleading not guilty due to insanity, self defense, ect, doesn't the burden of proof some what fall on the defense?

No, the defense has to prove it wasn't self defense.

 

[WoodysGirl]

How do you know that? How do you know he didn"t think he was up to something by his actions? We don't know anything of Martin's actions that night when Zimmerman saw him. Was he looking in someone's window? Was he walking through people's yards.

Zimmerman then said he was coming towards him with his hand in his wast band.

No, this wasn't a race based crime. It was, if it is deemed a crime, just a crime. A race based crime would indicate that he targeted him because he was black and not because of his actions. Nothing in his past would indicate that he would do that.

If he was just walking down the street with a 5 year old little girl on his shoulders not doing anything suspicious, you think he would have called 911?

How do I know? It's my opinion. You can believe that it wasn't about race, but I believe it was. I don't believe enough info has been released to truly how know what led to the confrontation. But I definitely believe that race played a decision to call 911.

On the flip side of your scenario, if it was a young white male wearing the same attire as Trayvon, would Zimmerman have called 911?

 

[gmoney112]

Fair enough, I respect this line of thinking.

I agree that his outfit and appearence likely played a role, which is why I tend to think Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter as his actions let to Trayvon's death. I really doubt he did anything that constitutes full-blown murder however.

You mean besides actively patrolling his neighborhood with a firearm and then murdering an unarmed civilian? Yeah. Not murder. He should get a invitation to the White House.

 

[casmith07]

If nobody is there to argue against your claim and no physical evidence exists to show otherwise, nothing is stopping you. Would you prefer every person who claims self-defense immediately be charged with murder?



No, the prosecution has to PROVE that you werent insane, acting in self-defense, etc.

Wrong. The burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt rests with the defense on claims of NGI or self-defense.

The only burden of proof for the government is to prove that the crime was committed.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

If the Lead Investigator wasn't over ruled on wanting Manslaughter than would this case even be as big in National News as it is?


Maybe some would know about it. But Zimmerman not being arrested and booked is what lead to the Media covering it so much and therefore people getting outraged.

The SPD's botched handling of the case and then the over ruling of the Manslaughter charge has lead to Zimmerman being in fear of his life.

He might have been better off of the suggested Manslaughter charge was upheld and there would have been no Major National Media coverage. Because the story broke from Zimmerman not being charged in the first place.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

If he was white and wearing a polo shirt would he have called 911? Or even noticed him?

If he was acting suspicious yes. He said he was standing around looking around at the houses at night. He was looking at houses that obviously weren't his. I don't know if that means he was looking in the windows to see who was home or what. Zimmerman also acknowledged that Martin was wearing a hoodie so he wasn't even sure he was black. When the 911 operator asked him he said he looked black. Zimmerman didn't even bring up race. If you listen to the 911 call it's pretty clear.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

How do I know? It's my opinion. You can believe that it wasn't about race, but I believe it was. I don't believe enough info has been released to truly how know what led to the confrontation. But I definitely believe that race played a decision to call 911.

On the flip side of your scenario, if it was a young white male wearing the same attire as Trayvon, would Zimmerman have called 911?

Probably he would have. He was a watch captain. That's what they do. And since Zimmerman is Hispanic, I doubt race played any part of it.

Maybe you should at least listen to the 911 call if you haven't already.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Wrong. The burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt rests with the defense on claims of NGI or self-defense.

The only burden of proof for the government is to prove that the crime was committed.

The government has to prove that MURDER occured, not just that a crime occured...which is my entire point. Proving murder in this case will be nearly impossible.

 

[TheCount]

A race-based killing is much, much more serious than killing your child in the warped perception of modern American society.

If you believe that, I don't know why you'd even want to live in this country.

 

[casmith07]

The government has to prove that MURDER occured, not just that a crime occured...which is my entire point. Proving murder in this case will be nearly impossible.

HeyZeus semantics! Murder/crime/breaking and entering. Same thing.

And if you had any legal training and could understand the language in the statute I posted on page 1, you would know that proving murder 2 is not that difficult here. The wild card is the jury.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

You can't arrest someone unless there is evidence showing probable cause. Heck, you just had the shooter call 911 before the incident to have police come. Does that sound like someone who is trying to kill someone because he is black?

You're clearly reading what you want to read. No one here is saying he wanted to kill Martin cause he was black. What has been said over and over again, is he precieved a threat because he was Black. And because of this precieved threat he took actions that lead to the death of an unarmed person.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Does race have anything to do with it? I don't know. But Zimmerman's Neighbor defending him keeps mentioning that there were eight robberies all by Black Young Men. Even though there weren't arrests and convictions and all cases so maybe the Neighbor assumes that it was all Black Males because one or two might have been caught.


The Neighbor seems to use these robberies as a way to justify GZ seeing Trayvon as "Suspicious" and calling 911 on him and following him. Now I don't know how he can say that Zimmerman was not profiling but at the same time use his assumptions that all robberies were commited by Black Males as a way to justify or defend why Zimmerman would see Trayvon as up to no good.

Because if Zimmerman did just call because of what he assumes others did and automatically assumed that Trayvon was going to do the same thing than that is profiling to me.

 

[casmith07]

You're clearly reading what you want to read. No one here is saying he wanted to kill Martin cause he was black. What has been said over and over again, is he precieved a threat because he was Black. And because of this precieved threat he took actions that lead to the death of an unarmed person.

Additionally, I'm not sure in what crazy country, maybe somewhere in the other hemisphere, coming up on one guy face down dead in the grass and the other guy standing over him with a pistol with the barrel still warm is not probable cause. But let me know so I make sure I don't move there.