Goose: Cowboys would have picked this prospect in a heartbeat

[xwalker]

It's funny he notes Tacos lack of speed then says the Cowboys wanted Harris who also didn't wow anybody at the Combine with his speed.

Watt was the only speed guy in all categories with regards to the 1st rounders, but the Cowboys thought he would need to be a hybrid LB/DE in the 4-3 which lowered his value to them.

I said pre-draft that 3-4 teams would value him higher than 4-3 teams.

 

[xwalker]

That may be accurate. But are you telling me Taco has blazing speed? Taco may turn out to be a very good player but it won't be because he is fast, X.

I don't care what the company line is. I think the draftedhim to play the left end. He can excel there. Will they give him a chance to win the right side? Yeah, of course they will. If he can play the right side effectively it is a win for the Cowboys.

As it stands right now I think Tapper is out best chance of having a really good DE and second best bets are Mayowa/Lawrence. My guess is Mayowa would be more likely than Lawrence.


Lawrence and Taco will be battling for the left end starting position. I think Lawrence will win it if he is healthy so that we can get a comp pick out of him when he leaves after this season.

The only first round outside pass rushers that were fast are Garrett and Watt. The Cowboys and likely most or all 4-3 teams didn't see Watt as a full time DE.

Barnett and Harris were not faster/quicker than Taco overall. McKinley was fast in a straight line but some stiff and lightweight at 250 pounds.

 

[Idgit]

2007 Favre instead of Rodgers

Sheesh, right. Time flies.

 

[MileyDancer]

The Cowboys didn't fix their pass rush with Charlton. We still need to draft more DLine, because the rest are JAGS.

 

[Dwight]

Dangle a DE of Sherman's ability for trade and it would get easily as much play around here. And wanting Ramsey in a year before four DBs are scheduled to hit the market is hardly a sign of CB bias. That's just a case of talent fitting need.

As for the 2007 Giants, that was a complete defense by the time they hit the playoffs. Their whole thing was getting hot right at the end of the season and winning the four playoff games from behind with Eli playing great football. Yeah, they had a great DL, but key picks got them past both Dallas and Green Bay that year. It's one case of a team whose DL was stronger than its secondary, sure. That happens. But if they didn't play complete defense, there's no way they complete the playoff sweep against Romo, Rodgers, and Brady.

Personally around here I would still feel that a CB would get more play and/or discussion than DE due to past actions.

As far as Ramsey is concern you can find a cornerback in the later rounds such as Sherman Richard (2011 Fifth Rounder). Cornerback was the least of our teams concerns due to needing a RB, QB, WR, DE, DT, etc. I didn't care for Bosa but I preferred drafting him than Ramsey. Also, Ramsey would not have made an impact such as our first pick (who helped our defense by the way) did last season. Therefore, I felt we dodged a bullet. Plus Anthony Brown contributed as a rookie and he was picked in the later rounds.

The only time you draft a cornerback that high is if he has Deion Sanders type of ability and skills. Other than that you are wasting your time.

Concerning the 2007 Giants that team's secondary was nothing to brag about. Those key picks in the playoff games were due mainly to a very strong pass rush.

 

[CaptainCreed]

"I think [with] Switzer it came down to Donnel Pumphrey who the Eagles took right before them. They may have taken Pumphrey. He led the nation in rushing."

Well, I am glad this didn't happen. I understand taking chances at BPA but I feel completely confident with our RBs at this point.

Pumphrey will be returning kicks/punts for Eagles as we drafted Switzer to do here. Darren Sproles-lite player.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Personally around here I would still feel that a CB would get more play and/or discussion than DE due to past actions.

As far as Ramsey is concern you can find a cornerback in the later rounds such as Sherman Richard (2011 Fifth Rounder). Cornerback was the least of our teams concerns due to needing a RB, QB, WR, DE, DT, etc. I didn't care for Bosa but I preferred drafting him than Ramsey. Also, Ramsey would not have made an impact such as our first pick (who helped our defense by the way) did last season. Therefore, I felt we dodged a bullet. Plus Anthony Brown contributed as a rookie and he was picked in the later rounds.

The only time you draft a cornerback that high is if he has Deion Sanders type of ability and skills. Other than that you are wasting your time.

Concerning the 2007 Giants that team's secondary was nothing to brag about. Those key picks in the playoff games were due mainly to a very strong pass rush.

You say things like you can find a cornerback in the later rounds so nonchalantly. Well can't you also find defensive lineman in the later rounds such as Jeremiah Ratlif (2005 Seventh Rounder).

See what I did there?

 

[Bullflop]

The Cowboys didn't fix their pass rush with Charlton. We still need to draft more DLine, because the rest are JAGS.

I'm not sure I'd classify Tapper and Maliek Collins as JAGS just yet. Granted, they missed time with injuries. Hopefully that'll be behind them and be relegated to the past. It might not be a bad idea to exercise patience at this stage, just as we did with Jaylon Smith. It really appears to be a bit early now to give up on them this year, imho. They're still practically in their embryonic stages with the team.

 

[WillieBeamen]

Personally around here I would still feel that a CB would get more play and/or discussion than DE due to past actions.

As far as Ramsey is concern you can find a cornerback in the later rounds such as Sherman Richard (2011 Fifth Rounder). Cornerback was the least of our teams concerns due to needing a RB, QB, WR, DE, DT, etc. I didn't care for Bosa but I preferred drafting him than Ramsey. Also, Ramsey would not have made an impact such as our first pick (who helped our defense by the way) did last season. Therefore, I felt we dodged a bullet. Plus Anthony Brown contributed as a rookie and he was picked in the later rounds.

The only time you draft a cornerback that high is if he has Deion Sanders type of ability and skills. Other than that you are wasting your time.

Concerning the 2007 Giants that team's secondary was nothing to brag about. Those key picks in the playoff games were due mainly to a very strong pass rush.

Good Post.

Remember on here before the draft last year, the fan base was split on zeke or Ramsey at 4, and most didnt want Bosa. Anybody in here acting like most fans on this site dont have a Cb fetish is lying.

 

[Dwight]

Good Post.

Remember on here before the draft last year, the fan base was split on zeke or Ramsey at 4, and most didnt want Bosa. Anybody in here acting like most fans on this site dont have a Cb fetish is lying.

I totally agree.

 

[Idgit]

Good Post.

Remember on here before the draft last year, the fan base was split on zeke or Ramsey at 4, and most didnt want Bosa. Anybody in here acting like most fans on this site dont have a Cb fetish is lying.

Lol. People didn't want Bosa because they didn't think he was a good player. They were wrong.

People wanted Ramsey, because CBs are more valuable than RBs and because we had four DBs heading into FA this offseason and they were rightly looking ahead.

People on the site like CBs because it's been proven to be the case that a good cover CB is one of the hardest positions in the NFL to fill. It's simple supply and demand. The same thing goes for edge rushers, though. Because that's a position that's even harder to fill.

 

[WillieBeamen]

Lol. People didn't want Bosa because they didn't think he was a good player. They were wrong.

People wanted Ramsey, because CBs are more valuable than RBs and because we had four DBs heading into FA this offseason and they were rightly looking ahead.

People on the site like CBs because it's been proven to be the case that a good cover CB is one of the hardest positions in the NFL to fill. It's simple supply and demand. The same thing goes for edge rushers, though. Because that's a position that's even harder to fill.

I just dont understand this narrative.

The problem with this defense has been the personel, especially on the d-line for years now. We had the 2nd ranked defense in the league in 2009 under Wade and these were our CBs:

Terrence Newman
Mike Jenkins
Orlando Scandrick
Alan Ball
Gerald Sensabaugh

In 2012 we go out and trade a 2nd to move up for Morris Claiborne (a move most of this fan base applauded). This was after we gave Brandon Carr 50m contract (another move the fan base applauded). How did those moves turn out? We've had a below average defense since because we never properly fixed this front 7.

Stephen said himself that the top priority heading in to the offense was to fix the pass rush.


Front 7s can make corners better because:

1. The QB has to get rid of the ball quicker bc of pressure
2. Corners dont have to cover for an extended time


Corners dont make the front 7 better

 

[visionary]

Good Post.

Remember on here before the draft last year, the fan base was split on zeke or Ramsey at 4, and most didnt want Bosa. Anybody in here acting like most fans on this site dont have a Cb fetish is lying.

Intelligent fans sing have a CB fetish and understand that defense is about putting pressure on the QB
There are some blind ones that don't know football 101 and give everybody a bad name
One of them just responded to you and is usually leading the charge in these discussions

 

[Idgit]

I just dont understand this narrative.

The problem with this defense has been the personel, especially on the d-line for years now. We had the 2nd ranked defense in the league in 2009 under Wade and these were our CBs:

Terrence Newman
Mike Jenkins
Orlando Scandrick
Alan Ball
Gerald Sensabaugh

In 2012 we go out and trade a 2nd to move up for Morris Claiborne (a move most of this fan base applauded). This was after we gave Brandon Carr 50m contract (another move the fan base applauded). How did those moves turn out? We've had a below average defense since because we never properly fixed this front 7.

Stephen said himself that the top priority heading in to the offense was to fix the pass rush.

Front 7s can make corners better because:

1. The QB has to get rid of the ball quicker bc of pressure
2. Corners dont have to cover for an extended time

Corners dont make the front 7 better

You only have to look at where CBs get drafted or at how they get paid by all GMs from all teams over time to understand the narrative that CBs are valuable because they are scarce. That's simple supply and demand, and it's been the way the NFL has done business for decades.

That 2009 secondary was a decent one. At least the CBs were. I'm not sure that it supports your point.

Mo's draft selection was applauded because he was widely considered to be the best defensive player in that draft, and because we gave up what was generally considered less than market value to get him. But he never played to that level. The way I remember the Carr signing was that people were relieved that we filled an obvious need with what was a big-name FA at the time, but everybody knew we'd paid a premium to do that. The argument isn't to overpay for players or to draft badly. The argument is that DBs who can actually play are valuable. And that's been supported over and over and over over time.

Similarly, we've spent resources on the DL in recent years in Gregory, Crawford, trading up for Demarcus Lawrence, and in giving Greg Hardy another shot. The fact that none of those players have become true impact DLs doesn't suggest that DL is not important. You have to hit on the picks.

And I wouldn't argue that pressure doesn't make QBs unload the ball quicker. That's obvious. Just like better coverage makes unloading the ball successfully harder to do. The argument is that you have to be solid everywhere on defense or you're going to get exposed.

 

[Idgit]

Intelligent fans sing have a CB fetish and understand that defense is about putting pressure on the QB
There are some blind ones that don't know football 101 and give everybody a bad name
One of them just responded to you and is usually leading the charge in these discussions

Give it a rest, dude. If you've got nothing but a drive by personal attack this will end as embarrassingly for you as the Timmy Jernigan debate where you ran off as soon as you were called out for doing simple math on trade valuation wrong.

 

[WillieBeamen]

You only have to look at where CBs get drafted or at how they get paid by all GMs from all teams over time to understand the narrative that CBs are valuable because they are scarce. That's simple supply and demand, and it's been the way the NFL has done business for decades.

That 2009 secondary was a decent one. At least the CBs were. I'm not sure that it supports your point.

Mo's draft selection was applauded because he was widely considered to be the best defensive player in that draft, and because we gave up what was generally considered less than market value to get him. But he never played to that level. The way I remember the Carr signing was that people were relieved that we filled an obvious need with what was a big-name FA at the time, but everybody knew we'd paid a premium to do that. The argument isn't to overpay for players or to draft badly. The argument is that DBs who can actually play are valuable. And that's been supported over and over and over over time.

Similarly, we've spent resources on the DL in recent years in Gregory, Crawford, trading up for Demarcus Lawrence, and in giving Greg Hardy another shot. The fact that none of those players have become true impact DLs doesn't suggest that DL is not important. You have to hit on the picks.

And I wouldn't argue that pressure doesn't make QBs unload the ball quicker. That's obvious. Just like better coverage makes unloading the ball successfully harder to do. The argument is that you have to be solid everywhere on defense or you're going to get exposed.

The 2009 secondary was a group of players we all wanted to move on from immediately, a few seasons later. Was it because they forgot how to play? No, it was the front 7 play was deteriorating, and they werent able to play at a high level.

Look at Terrence Newman. He's still in the league 6 years later and playing at a decent level, because the defenses hes played on since have good front 7s.

 

[SlammedZero]

Pumphrey will be returning kicks/punts for Eagles as we drafted Switzer to do here. Darren Sproles-lite player.

Ah ok. I see now. Thanks.

 

[Idgit]

The 2009 secondary was a group of players we all wanted to move on from immediately, a few seasons later. Was it because they forgot how to play? No, it was the front 7 play was deteriorating, and they werent able to play at a high level.

Look at Terrence Newman. He's still in the league 6 years later and playing at a decent level, because the defenses hes played on since have good front 7s.

You don't have to remind me about Terrence Newman. I was about the only one on CZ who insisted he was still playing at a high level. Jenkins wasn't a bad player, either. And we all remember Scandrick.

I've never said the DL wasn't important. I agree that it was falling apart at that point and that was the primary limitation of the defense at that time. But having a bad secondary isn't any better. It's no fun watching football when the other team can throw downfield at will, even when you're blitzing.

 

[Verdict]

The only first round outside pass rushers that were fast are Garrett and Watt. The Cowboys and likely most or all 4-3 teams didn't see Watt as a full time DE.

Barnett and Harris were not faster/quicker than Taco overall. McKinley was fast in a straight line but some stiff and lightweight at 250 pounds.

It may have been better to go CB in the first round and take one of the pass rushers in the second or third rounds.

The risk is that Taco busts and we end up with two lesser CBs than what was on the board in the first round. It may work out totally awesome. It was a calculated risk.

I think the Cowboys are banking on him being a left DE and if it turns out he can be an acceptable right DE they will view it as gravy.

 

[xwalker]

It may have been better to go CB in the first round and take one of the pass rushers in the second or third rounds.

The risk is that Taco busts and we end up with two lesser CBs than what was on the board in the first round. It may work out totally awesome. It was a calculated risk.

I think the Cowboys are banking on him being a left DE and if it turns out he can be an acceptable right DE they will view it as gravy.

Awuzie and Taco were 2 of my top 3 for #28.