Gosselin's 1st Mock

[MichaelWinicki]

they scored two tds in less than 4 minutes didnt they? and they did it after converting a 3rd and 27 and 4th and 15 on the same drive...again, if you cant stop those kinds of plays (especially at home) with the game on the line you dont deserve to win

as for the OL, if you think they didnt contribute to why the offense couldnt score more pts then you need to go back and look at some game tapes

and finally for your kicker argument, did every other team in the league have kickers who NEVER missed a fg? kickers are going to miss some field goals during a course of the season...however, other than Houston we clearly had the worst OL in football

David

David,

I would virtually guarantee you that at this point EVEN if we picked an OT #1 he would not start... not with Fabini on board.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I see what you're saying, but can't agree, who's to say Holmes will be ready? and isn't finding our future WR a "need" in a sense also?

Holmes can always be an occasional deep threat in some situations and more then likely a returner at worst his first year until he gets into the groove of the NFL.

I am not advovating taking holmes with the pick. I would rather have carpenter/lawson or a good OT if one fell.

But still just because Holmes might not be a starter at WR this year, does not mean he would not get time on the field to make an impact here and there.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

my proposition is this, if we want to find our future WR, why not wait till the 2nd day, and take a WR with just as much potential as Holmes, but at better value? taking Holmes at 18 would be a sham IMO

 

[Bob Sacamano]

But still just because Holmes might not be a starter at WR this year, does not mean he would not get time on the field to make an impact here and there.

true, true, but I'm of the belief, which is shared by many, that your 1st 3 picks should all be 1st day starters, if not, your 1st round pick better be, that wouldn't be Holmes, so that rules him out in my book, and we can then take a developmental WR to groom as the future

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

my proposition is this, if we want to find our future WR, why not wait till the 2nd day, and take a WR with just as much potential as Holmes, but at better value? taking Holmes at 18 would be a sham IMO

Because you don't find as many WRs in the second day with the same potential as a first rounder.

Have you not been around the last many years that the boys have tried doing just as you have said?

We have crayton to show for it, who probably could be a #2 WR at best.

How many times are we going to go with the late round WR hoping to hit a home run?

 

[dbair1967]

the problem for which you are proposing a fix, simply, can't be rectified with a rookie OT, we all saw Pettiti's struggles, and even the 1st OT off the board last year, Alex Barron, was struggling late into the season, remember Ware blew him up to get his 8th sack on the year? OT is one of the hardest positions, 2nd to QB IMO, to transition to, college to the pros, while a position such as OLB, not so much, Ware was hella inexperienced as an OLB, but he did fine, get another opposite him, or FS, and we'll see quicker returns and production this year

just depends on how talented the guys are...Ware was a tremendous talent...Petitti struggled but he was a 6th rd pick, he was supposed to struggle...your telling me Jamal Brown wouldnt have been better than Petitti?

normally I am opposed to drafting OL in the first rd because history shows you should be able to coach up average to above average guys into a solid unit (see Dallas early to mid 90's, New England the past 5yrs etc etc)...however, those Dallas teams, along with a team like the Pats had exceptional OL coaches...I'm not sure Sporano is an "exceptional" OL coach, so in cases like that you need exceptional talent to offset mediocre coaching...the other issue is our OL is so bad that we wont ever win big until its fixed......if I was sure Kosier and Fabini were going to be good, and that Adams, Fabini and Rivera would be healthy all yr maybe I wouldnt feel this way...but I see our OL as a huge sieve...7 times last yr our team failed to score more than 17 pts, we lost 6 of those games, in an 8th game (Philly) we needed a defensive TD to win and surpass those 17 pts (we ended up with 21)...we have good skill players, we should be able to score more...however until the OL performs better, we wont

David

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Because you don't find as many WRs in the second day with the same potential as a first rounder.

Have you not been around the last many years that the boys have tried doing just as you have said?

We have crayton to show for it, who probably could be a #2 WR at best.

How many times are we going to go with the late round WR hoping to hit a home run?

I'm talking about a WR who has extensive experience playing the position, and at a major-college program, which we haven't done in awhile, we all want to groom our future WR, and my idea is doing exactly that, w/o expending it using our 1st round pick, which could be used for an immediate, and impact starter

 

[Bob Sacamano]

just depends on how talented the guys are...Ware was a tremendous talent...Petitti struggled but he was a 6th rd pick, he was supposed to struggle...your telling me Jamal Brown wouldnt have been better than Petitti?

Brown was better than Pettiti, but you can't name me many rookie OTs who've made great impacts for their respective OLine's, even young ones who were former 1st round picks, heck, the Raiders still don't know what they have in Robert Gallery

and frankly, I'd be worried about the OT Parcells drafts as opposed to the OLB

 

[dbair1967]

David,

I would virtually guarantee you that at this point EVEN if we picked an OT #1 he would not start... not with Fabini on board.

I dunno...Fabini was never much more than average to adequate anyway...now he is older and coming off a severe chest injury...I wouldnt want to put all my eggs in his basket

and it just Fabini...Adams by all accounts is on schedule to be 100%, but what if he isnt? also, the knee injury isnt going to make him MORE athletic or mobile and its likely speed guys may give him problems...Rivera was painfully so-so last yr, old guys with back problems dont get better...Kosier may work out, but if he plays as he has so far in his career then he definitely is NOt an upgrade over what Larry Allen was last yr

I hope I'm wrong, but unless we get more reinforcements to the OL via the draft I can see the unit holding the rest of the team hostage again, just like last yr

David

 

[Hostile]

David,

I would virtually guarantee you that at this point EVEN if we picked an OT #1 he would not start... not with Fabini on board.

I think unless a guy too good to pass up is available in a later round OT is off the board. In other words if an Eric Winston is there in the 3rd we don't go OT.

 

[zrinkill]

I actually agree with Dbair on most of his points .... I just think that our horrible kicking last year cost us a few games .......

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I'm talking about a WR who has extensive experience playing the position, and at a major-college program, which we haven't done in awhile, we all want to groom our future WR, and my idea is doing exactly that, w/o expending it using our 1st round pick, which could be used for an immediate, and impact starter

LOL if it was that easy would any team take a WR on the first day?

And no matter if you get a first day or second day WR, unless they are very special (ala Randy Moss) then many do not make much of an impact their first year no matter if you get them first or second day.

It is pretty common thing for a WR to take a year before they get into playing well in the NFL.

If we wait until the second day our chances of getting a good WR drop greatly, if we wait until we NEED a WR and draft one in the first then we still wait a year.

I don't want to take Holmes this year, but once again it is not a bad option for the team both short and long term, plus if he is the BPA and we can not trade down I would rather take him then trying to reach for a player at another need position.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I actually agree with Dbair on most of his points .... I just think that our horrible kicking last year cost us a few games .......

It is one of those arguments that can go either way really.

Sure if we scored more points via the passing or run game than the FG misses would be moot.

But at the same time we did have chances to win games and blew it on missed FGs so that argument works as well.

However I will say this, we got the FG, or at least we should, situation fixed.

Not so sure about the O-Line because at the very least our depth is not much better then last year.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

ok Brain

this is my argument, taking HOlmes over Carpenter, Wimbley, bad idea, but if he was the best on the board, and those 2 were gone, as well as Hawk and Lawson, then I'd follow along meekly

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

ok Brain

this is my argument, taking HOlmes over Carpenter, Wimbley, bad idea, but if he was the best on the board, and those 2 were gone, as well as Hawk and Lawson, then I'd follow along meekly

Well I have said the same, I would rather have Carpenter or Lawson.

But at the same time It would be hard for me to argue about taking holmes seeing as for years we have been waiting till the second day to take WRs and because of it we have had to pay FAs to come in and play WR for us.

 

[dbair1967]

Brown was better than Pettiti, but you can't name me many rookie OTs who've made great impacts for their respective OLine's, even young ones who were former 1st round picks, heck, the Raiders still don't know what they have in Robert Gallery

yeah it isnt a distinguished list thats for sure, there are some Pace's, Walter Jones', Jon Ogden's and Jamal Brown's but there are alot of what you said too...thats why I like drafting OL in middle rds and developing them...however to do that you better have good coaching, and I'm not sure we do and we havent at that position since Houck left

the point will probably be moot anyway, because at 18 the only two OL's I'd draft are Ferguson and Justice and niether is going to be there...I'd consider Winston later in the first and I'm relatively sure he'd be a significant upgrade at RT as well

but I do think we have to get ALOT better on the OL to make a real run this yr...a mediocre OL wont get us to the super bowl or even deep into the playoffs

David

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

yeah it isnt a distinguished list thats for sure, there are some Pace's, Walter Jones', Jon Ogden's and Jamal Brown's but there are alot of what you said too...thats why I like drafting OL in middle rds and developing them...however to do that you better have good coaching, and I'm not sure we do and we havent at that position since Houck left

the point will probably be moot anyway, because at 18 the only two OL's I'd draft are Ferguson and Justice and niether is going to be there...I'd consider Winston later in the first and I'm relatively sure he'd be a significant upgrade at RT as well

but I do think we have to get ALOT better on the OL to make a real run this yr...a mediocre OL wont get us to the super bowl or even deep into the playoffs

David

It's the depth the concerns me most on the oline.

If Adams and Fabini have an injury, which coming off existing injuries probably heightens the chances, then we have Petitti.

Now maybe Rob will improve but still I don't care for just that person at depth and no way do I Think Columbo fills in.

I am not as paranoid about the OG spot, we may not be great there but we have players who can fill in.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

but I do think we have to get ALOT better on the OL to make a real run this yr...a mediocre OL wont get us to the super bowl or even deep into the playoffs

David

just I think we're going to have to make do with the starters we have, as we pick up some future starters round 3 on in the draft

 

[Bob Sacamano]

But at the same time It would be hard for me to argue about taking holmes seeing as for years we have been waiting till the second day to take WRs and because of it we have had to pay FAs to come in and play WR for us.

agreed brainboy

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

agreed brainboy

Keep it up and I will have your name changed to SweetLips.