Great Contract Commanders LOL

[Verdict]

Especially considering it was Bailey and a pick. Plus, to get Moss they gave back Coles, who they gave an arm and a leg for in the first place. These ended up being nice moves, but it's not like they just occurred. Washington is da man, though. Griffin, too.

No franchise in it's right mind trades the best playmaking corner in the league for a top 5 RB. None.

Generally I would agree with this statement, but I think I would do it for Tomlinson.

 

[superpunk]

Generally I would agree with this statement, but I think I would do it for Tomlinson.

Tomlinson is the greatest player, regardless of position, in the NFL. I would trade anything for him, and anyone else would do the same. Absolutely you make that trade, lol.

 

[Hostile]

Generally I would agree with this statement, but I think I would do it for Tomlinson.

I'd do it so fast heads would swim. But not for any other RB that I can think of.

 

[Verdict]

That's the model the Patriots were using. The difference seems to be that we try to hang on to our impact guys like Roy, Witten, Bradie, etc. While they've been letting their guys walk, like Branch, Milloy, etc.

That is mostly true; however, the Pats have also kept the players they deem are irreplaceable, like Brady. We seem to have gotten good value in the recent extensions we gave out. The advantage to resigning your own guys is that your "miss" rate should theoretically be greatly reduced since you should "know" what you have already. It is more of a gamble signing a free agent off the street.

The most interesting extension we gave this year in my mind is Brady James. The staff must really think he is just coming into his own, because he seems like a player that could have been replaced more easily than the rest at a lower cost. Then again, I have been wrong before.

 

[CooterBrown]

I occasionally browse extremeskins just for a good laugh. I saw a poster there complaining about the big-name free agent busts they always seem to come up with and he said, "we won't win another championship until next off-season."

Even skins fans know they win the off-season crown every year.

 

[Verdict]

I'd do it so fast heads would swim. But not for any other RB that I can think of.

Can you say "Hall of Fame"?

I think Adrian Peterson may have "franchise back" written all over him as well. I'm not sure he can be the next L.T. but he is the closest I have seen in a long time.

 

[Screw The Hall]

One of the most alarming occurrences for me if I were a Commander fan would be the good QB's they've let walk right thru their front door ... especially given their ineptness at that position during the time frame.

Don't misunderstand me up until now we've been crappy at QB as well for quite sometime. But then after Aikman and before Romo we haven't had much to choose from either.

bbgun had a post this last week that brought to my attention some very interesting facts.

Since 1994 the Commanders have had Rich Gannon, Trent Green, and Brad Johnson as QB's that they have ushered in and almost as quickly ushered right back out.

They could have had almost uninterrupted probowl play out of that position up until this very minute if they would've just recognized what they had. It's hard enough to find talent especially at QB, but if you can't even recognize it when it's in your own backyard ... yikes.

Now that's scary stuff for Washington fans to think about.

 

[CooterBrown]

I'm not so sure that Patrick Ramsey won't fit on this list someday.

 

[WilmingtonHeel]

If they're paying Adam that kind of money what do you think Taylor would want? Speaking of Taylor I don't hear anymore who's better between he and Roy, Sean's been beaten like drum missing tackles like crazy

 

[Yakuza Rich]

That is mostly true; however, the Pats have also kept the players they deem are irreplaceable, like Brady. We seem to have gotten good value in the recent extensions we gave out. The advantage to resigning your own guys is that your "miss" rate should theoretically be greatly reduced since you should "know" what you have already. It is more of a gamble signing a free agent off the street.

The most interesting extension we gave this year in my mind is Brady James. The staff must really think he is just coming into his own, because he seems like a player that could have been replaced more easily than the rest at a lower cost. Then again, I have been wrong before.

The Pats system has little to do with replacing a player and more to do with paying them what they think they are worth. Seymour is a top notch defensive player. Brady is a top notch QB. They wanted top notch money and they got it because they were worth it.

David Givens wanted and got #1 WR money. He's not a #1 WR. The same could be said for Deion Branch, who has yet to really prove to me he's worth that much.

McGinest wanted good money and a contract extension. But at his age he simply wasn't worth the risk. The same could be said for Vinatieri to a degree. Pro Football Prospectus showed a great stat of his game winning kicks and they were far, far shorter kicks than most game winning field goals that other NFL kickers have to make. Ty Law was on the wrong side of 30, coming off a broken foot and wanted to be like a top 3 CB.

So for the Pats, the number one priority is getting their money's worth. If a player is truly great and doesn't have any significant risk factors (i.e. never fully proving himself, injuries, age, etc) they'll pay him good money. But if they are asking for more than they are worth or it's too risky, they'll just re-build through the draft at that spot.

The Eagles seem to have more of a budgetary process based on position. They don't like to pay WR's or LB's very much, but will shell out $$$ for DE's, CB's, and O-Linemen. They look at the same risk factors like the Pats do, but are much more stringent. Not only was Owens a good example of their budgetary process, but Jeremiah Trotter was as well. The Eagles could've matched the Skins offer back when he signed with Washington, but the Eagles lowballed him because they just don't value LB's all that much. The Trotter case worked out for them, but the Owens case showed the dangers of their budgetary rules.

The Steelers seem to stray away from signing big name FA's at all costs. I don't think they are too nutty about paying a player big $$$, but they will do it. Fortunately for them they are so strong at building through the draft that everything works out great for them.



YAKUZA

 

[Yakuza Rich]

If they're paying Adam that kind of money what do you think Taylor would want? Speaking of Taylor I don't hear anymore who's better between he and Roy, Sean's been beaten like drum missing tackles like crazy

Rosenhaus is his agent as well.

I can't imagine them not paying Taylor what he wants. But I would love to see the reactions of Skins fans if they didn't meet his demands.



YAKUZA

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Since 1994 the Commanders have had Rich Gannon, Trent Green, and Brad Johnson as QB's that they have ushered in and almost as quickly ushered right back out

Gannon just wasn't a very good QB at that point in his career. Green had a nice season with the Skins, but he was replaced by Johnson who had a tremendous season.

The Johnson situation shows what kind of person and owner Snyder really is. Johnson passed for over 4,000 yards with Michael Westbrook and Albert freaking Connell as his WR's. Johnson actually had one of the stronger arms out there at that point, but badly hurt his shoulder and his arm strength was never the same.

His next season he struggled since he was dealing with the shoulder problems, and Snyder did everything in his power to throw him under the bu and run him out of town. After that he had 4 pretty good seasons.


You reap what you sew.



YAKUZA

 

[theebs]

All that needs to be known about the Commanders is this

offseason 2003, gibbs is hired.
The skins trade a 5th round pick in 05 to the eagles for James thrash.

They needed another wr, instead of trusting their ability in the draft, they trade a 5th in the next seasons draft for a spare part wr.

Flash forward to the 05 draft.
The Eagles select TRENT COLE DE with that 5th round pick.

Now it seems like oh ho hum just another 5th round pick. Well cole is a terrific young pass rusher, with more ability than anyone on the Commanders current roster.

So what are the ramifications of that trade?

IN the 05 offseason the skins decide they need another wr in the offseason, again not trusting the draft and also they need a pass rushing end and of course not trusting the draft.

So what do they do, they give a boat load of money to Andre Carter who's production is about the same as anyone they could have found on the second day of draft, for instance compare Dallas 7th round pick Jay Ratliff's numbers this year with Andre Carters, then compare their salaries and age!!!

Now also, the skins still need another wr or two because thrash and the other offseason signing previously of David patten have become useless and they are what they have always been spare part players. So they give out a boatload of cash to Brandon Lloyd a guy with issues and mediocore talent and then of course Randle el.

Now had the skins just trusted their ability to draft, they could have taken trent cole, in turn never needed to sign carter maybe use the money previously to keep someone like pierce or smoot.

When you put zero value in the draft you end up with the Commanders roster.
They now have to think about replacing both offensive tackles, they have a breaking down running back, a quarterback question and guys that dont fit or dont produce making big money.

Its ok to miss on players everyone does, but if you miss in the draft the salaries are small and you can move the player without problems, when you miss in free agency over and over on aging players you are really rolling the dice and more often than not teams fail at this.

Teams are built in April not march. Now imagine what those two picks they lost this year for duckett and others would do for an aging bad team? Only time will tell but it will be interesting to see who is selected in those spots, because if it is another trent cole the Commanders should really be raked over the coles.

 

[Screw The Hall]

Gannon just wasn't a very good QB at that point in his career. Green had a nice season with the Skins, but he was replaced by Johnson who had a tremendous season.

The Johnson situation shows what kind of person and owner Snyder really is. Johnson passed for over 4,000 yards with Michael Westbrook and Albert freaking Connell as his WR's. Johnson actually had one of the stronger arms out there at that point, but badly hurt his shoulder and his arm strength was never the same.

His next season he struggled since he was dealing with the shoulder problems, and Snyder did everything in his power to throw him under the bu and run him out of town. After that he had 4 pretty good seasons.


You reap what you sew.



YAKUZA

Gannon got alot better in Kansas City his next stop. He was mostly a backup but one of the best in the league. He of course had great success with the Raiders becoming league MVP and leading them to the SuperBowl. Still it was a steady progression towards becoming a good NFL QB upon his leaving DC. I'll spot them him though.

I agree with you and have no problem with them dumping Green for Johnson and wouldn't count that as a mistake if they would have stayed with Johnson. But it became two mistakes in one as soon as they made the colossal blunder of replacing Johnson with George.

After that not much changed with that team besides the QB switch yet they immediately spiralled downhill. Meanwhile Johnson goes to the Bucs rewrites alot of their passing records and eventually becomes the difference maker that gets them over the top for their only Superbowl victory. Yucky stuff.

 

[Direwolf63]

All that needs to be known about the Commanders is this

offseason 2003, gibbs is hired.
The skins trade a 5th round pick in 05 to the eagles for James thrash.

They needed another wr, instead of trusting their ability in the draft, they trade a 5th in the next seasons draft for a spare part wr.

Flash forward to the 05 draft.
The Eagles select TRENT COLE DE with that 5th round pick.

Now it seems like oh ho hum just another 5th round pick. Well cole is a terrific young pass rusher, with more ability than anyone on the Commanders current roster.

So what are the ramifications of that trade?

IN the 05 offseason the skins decide they need another wr in the offseason, again not trusting the draft and also they need a pass rushing end and of course not trusting the draft.

So what do they do, they give a boat load of money to Andre Carter who's production is about the same as anyone they could have found on the second day of draft, for instance compare Dallas 7th round pick Jay Ratliff's numbers this year with Andre Carters, then compare their salaries and age!!!

Now also, the skins still need another wr or two because thrash and the other offseason signing previously of David patten have become useless and they are what they have always been spare part players. So they give out a boatload of cash to Brandon Lloyd a guy with issues and mediocore talent and then of course Randle el.

Now had the skins just trusted their ability to draft, they could have taken trent cole, in turn never needed to sign carter maybe use the money previously to keep someone like pierce or smoot.

When you put zero value in the draft you end up with the Commanders roster.
They now have to think about replacing both offensive tackles, they have a breaking down running back, a quarterback question and guys that dont fit or dont produce making big money.

Its ok to miss on players everyone does, but if you miss in the draft the salaries are small and you can move the player without problems, when you miss in free agency over and over on aging players you are really rolling the dice and more often than not teams fail at this.

Teams are built in April not march. Now imagine what those two picks they lost this year for duckett and others would do for an aging bad team? Only time will tell but it will be interesting to see who is selected in those spots, because if it is another trent cole the Commanders should really be raked over the coles.

We should really delete this thread and especially this post.

I do not want the Commanders to learn how to properly build and manage a successful team. We should not be giving them good ideas.

I want them to continue on their incompentent ways until the end of time. I want them to lose forever.

By giving them intelligent ideas on how to do things is not in the best interests of the Dallas Cowboys or their fans. So stop it with these damn intelligent posts!!!

 

[AbeBeta]

All that needs to be known about the Commanders is this

offseason 2003, gibbs is hired.
The skins trade a 5th round pick in 05 to the eagles for James thrash.

They needed another wr, instead of trusting their ability in the draft, they trade a 5th in the next seasons draft for a spare part wr.

Flash forward to the 05 draft.
The Eagles select TRENT COLE DE with that 5th round pick.

But you can find far more examples of how the Skins traded picks away and the guys picked in those spots didn't do anything. Or how they kept picks and did a bad job.

 

[theebs]

But you can find far more examples of how the Skins traded picks away and the guys picked in those spots didn't do anything. Or how they kept picks and did a bad job.

WHat does that matter? It is okay to miss here and there in the draft, but missing in free agency costs a franchise in multiple ways. IN the end they will always have to go to the draft to get what they need.

Off the top of my head I believe another pick they gave up in o4 or 03 resulted in denver taking tatum bell.

The whole point is if you keep trading away your picks for mediocore aging players you will never win, never. It is a vicious cycle and it takes about 3 to 5 years sometimes to recover when you make bad misatakes.

One more thing, They traded that pick within the division and then the eagles end up with a premiere pass rushing end, that hurts them again because they have to play him twice a year.

Sure more times than not second day picks become washouts in two to four years, but when you have a need like pass rushing end and you let one go like that because you dont believe in the draft and you are impatient then you deserve to lose.

 

[theebs]

oh and here are some more joe gibbs/vinny cerrato/Dan snyder nuggets.

Mark brunnell to wash. for third rounder # 72 went to detroit and picked stanley wilson cb, the next pick vernand morency another back they could have had.

Clinton Portis to washington for Champ Bailey and 2nd round(Tatum bell)

whats wrong with signing bailey and then drafting bell or morency?

then to top it off you look at the skins 05 draft and see who they did select and you realize they have the worst front office in football.

 

[AdamJT13]

But let's say Washington finishes 8th in draft order and the Broncos make the playoffs, they would then switch first rounders.

I don't think so. They reportedly gave Ducket a "point value" of 250 in the draft choice value chart. That wouldn't be enough to get the Broncos from 21st to eighth (about 600 points, depending on the specific chart).

The exact numbers might be different from the one the Broncos and Commanders agreed to use, but here is one value chart --

The most likely result right now, reportedly, is that the Commanders give up their third-round pick in 2007 and their fourth-rounder either in 2007 or in 2008.

 

[AbeBeta]

oh and here are some more joe gibbs/vinny cerrato/Dan snyder nuggets.

Mark brunnell to wash. for third rounder # 72 went to detroit and picked stanley wilson cb, the next pick vernand morency another back they could have had.

Clinton Portis to washington for Champ Bailey and 2nd round(Tatum bell)

whats wrong with signing bailey and then drafting bell or morency?

then to top it off you look at the skins 05 draft and see who they did select and you realize they have the worst front office in football.

Again, you are picking the examples where it went wrong. My bet is that they wouldn't have picked any of those good players because they suck draft-wise.

Couldn't the same be said about the Cowboys -- after all Morency was taken with the pick we gave the Texans for Henson.