Great Quarterbacks

[Hostile]

I still remember Nors was always on the Romo bandwagon when mostly everyone else believed in Henson. Of course, I think that was him being antagonistic moreso than prophetic.

No he wasn't. He was on the Bledsoe bandwagon. He was anti-Henson, not pro-Romo. In fact, when he left here he was anti-Romo on 2 different sites.

 

[Daudr]

At this point in Tony Romo's career, I would contend that he is a "good" Quarterback and not a great one.

I think "good" Quarterbacks become "great" Quarterbacks based on their feats in the Post Season.

Tony Romo's most brilliant feats have been during the Regular Season.

However, ever since he started, he has clearly been working his way towards "great".

So, Marino wasn't great?

 

[Daudr]

The worst part about it is , is that even Cowboy fans were beginning to buy into the medias bashing of Romo. I was getting so tired of trying to defend Romo. Now that he has won a playoff game they are going to hold him to the Super Bowl standard although I have not once heard that standard applied to Brees. I have not heard it applied to Rivers either. It is the most biased thing I have ever seen.

I have never seen such a good player held to such ridiculous standards. Even now, in the QB rankins we see for the playoffs he is held to a higher standard. I will never understand what has gone on over the past 3 years. It boggles the mind!

Same thing happened with Troy in `89. A lot of crazy people thought that Steve Walsh should be the starter. Used to drive me nuts how some people just couldn't see how good Troy really was.

I still (up to like 2 weeks ago) was getting into arguments with friends about how good Romo is too.

 

[THUMPER]

At this point in Tony Romo's career, I would contend that he is a "good" Quarterback and not a great one.

I think "good" Quarterbacks become "great" Quarterbacks based on their feats in the Post Season.

Tony Romo's most brilliant feats have been during the Regular Season.

However, ever since he started, he has clearly been working his way towards "great".

Does that apply to Drew Brees? I'm guessing he gets a pass for some reason like he always does.

"Stats mean nothing, wins in the regular season mean nothing, it's all about what a QB does in the postseason and how many SBs he has won." Somehow that only seems to apply when people are trying to come up with reasons why Tony Romo isn't great. When it comes to Brees, it's all about the stats and his post-season record and lack of SBs isn't taken into account.

Romo IS a great QB and doesn't need to to accomplish anything else to prove it. :starspin

 

[THUMPER]

So, Marino wasn't great?

No Marino sucked because he couldn't win the big one, but Trent Dilfer, Jay Schroeder, Doug Williams, etc. were great because they all won SBs single-handedly.

 

[Vtwin]

Maybe the reason Romo is held to such high standards is twofold,
1) He plays for the Dallas Cowboys

2) It was clear to most when he came in and almost pulled that Giants game out of the fire that he most definitely had "it".
　
　
Knowing that he had "it" made it harder to understand that even though he had "it" he still was a youngster from a small school who suddenly found himself in THE spotlight as the face of one of the most high profile sports franchises on the planet.

Knowing that he had "it" but watching him go through the inevitable and expected growing pains is frustrating, especially for long suffering Cowboys fans.

I don't care who you are and how much of "it" you have you still need time to develop, especially if you've had nothing to really prepare you for what it's like to be in the spotlight.

I've always been a Romo fan but he did have to answer some questions for me going into this season.

Not only did he answer those questions but he answered questions I didn't even know I had then asked if there were any more questions and answered those too. I half expect him to ask me if I want him to do my taxes for me this year!

The only jersey's I own are of SB wining QB's. I fully expect to be buying a #9 at some point before he hangs them up.

 

[Kilyin]

No he wasn't. He was on the Bledsoe bandwagon. He was anti-Henson, not pro-Romo. In fact, when he left here he was anti-Romo on 2 different sites.

Yeah I'm not talking about when he left/got banned last time. Specifically I remember a preseason game people from this board went to and them making the comment that Romo had a noodle arm and threw lollipops. Then I remember Nors arguing about it and using the term 'three blind mice'.

Anyway I'm not going to start a debate about it, just thought it was funny that he might have actually been right about something.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

First, we are not talking about Drew Brees or Dan Marino. This thread is about Tony Romo.

Now,

The "Great" Quarterback debate seems to always turn into a bunch of "" and extreme comments being.

People fail to understand that the tag "great" is very subjective and everyone has their own criteria.

1. Consistently put up good numbers in the Regular Season.

2. Consistently prove that you make the players around you better

3. Consistently prove that you can have success in the Post Season

4. At some point, win a World Championship, which is the ultimate goal.

One has to understand, there are always going to be players that blow up any compiled list but for the most part, I think it is fairly good.

To continue,

The NFL Hall of Fame is an extremely "exclusive" club and thus every Quarterback in the NFL Hall of Fame deserves to be there.

With the above contention, I believe every Quarterback in the NFL Hall of Fame are "great" players.

Now, if Tony Romo retires right now, does he make the Hall of Fame, which is the place "great" quarterbacks go?

No, he doesn't.

Tony Romo is an extremely good Quarterback at this point in time but he is not a "great" Quaterback as he still has some things to prove.

Thanks

 

[Hostile]

Yeah I'm not talking about when he left/got banned last time. Specifically I remember a preseason game people from this board went to and making the comment that Romo had a noodle arm and threw lollipops. Then I remember Nors arguing about it and using the term 'three blind mice'.

Anyway I'm not going to start a debate about it, just thought it was funny that he might have actually been right about something.

I was one of the 3 who went to that game. He would take the opposite of any stance I take, but he was not pro-Romo. He doomed our season when Bledsoe got benched. He booked it. He was pro-Parcells guys and is a football moron. He was never high on Romo. Two guys who were high on Romo were Reality the owner of this site, and Ben-n-Austin. Ben, like Nors was more anti-Henson than pro-Romo, but he'll deny that. It is a tactic of pot stirrers.

 

[zrinkill]

Maybe the reason Romo is held to such high standards is twofold,
1) He plays for the Dallas Cowboys

2) It was clear to most when he came in and almost pulled that Giants game out of the fire that he most definitely had "it".
　
　
Knowing that he had "it" made it harder to understand that even though he had "it" he still was a youngster from a small school who suddenly found himself in THE spotlight as the face of one of the most high profile sports franchises on the planet.

Knowing that he had "it" but watching him go through the inevitable and expected growing pains is frustrating, especially for long suffering Cowboys fans.

I don't care who you are and how much of "it" you have you still need time to develop, especially if you've had nothing to really prepare you for what it's like to be in the spotlight.

I've always been a Romo fan but he did have to answer some questions for me going into this season.

Not only did he answer those questions but he answered questions I didn't even know I had then asked if there were any more questions and answered those too. I half expect him to ask me if I want him to do my taxes for me this year!

The only jersey's I own are of SB wining QB's. I fully expect to be buying a #9 at some point before he hangs them up.

This is a great post.

 

[SultanOfSix]

I think Romo, right now, is a very good QB with HOF potential. I think if he wins a SB he can finally be labeled a great QB. If he wins two, then there should be no more debate. If he never wins a SB - not a situation that I would hope for because I know he has the talent too - but is consistently playing for the next several years like he is now, likewise.

 

[theogt]

So the exception to the rule in this case would be Flacco and SAnchez. Both have pedigree and skills but dont seem like they will be great Qb's in the league. IF anything they seem to be following the path of Dilfer and company that won because a great Defense and running game.


I'm happy to have Romo that's for sure.

Flacco appears to be the better QB, but other than being a high draft pick, he has no "pedigree."

Sanchez has "pedigree" but isn't any good.

 

[Phrozen Phil]

I'll agree that Romo has blossomed into a fine QB, but how do we find the next one? He was undrafted. We've seen some 1st round busts in recent years on many teams, and it seems to be a gamble in terms of getting the right guy.

Let's remember that these guys need time to develop and grow. Rivers was picked in San Diego (after the Manning trade) because Brees was regarded as "not good enough". It was only after a good season in SD that netted a second rounder for Brees. Russell was picked by Oakland, only to become the poster boy for a dysfunctional franchise. Both Mannings took time to develop and people are jumping off Eli's bandwagon after this season.

To me, the task of selecting a QB is like a complicated and frustrating chemistry experiment. I'd love it if someone could clearly predict (accurately and reliably) if a player has the combination of physical and mental skills to be a great QB. For every Peyton Manning, there's a Matt Leinhart, a Heath Shuler, a Todd Marinovich, Andre Ware, or Akili Smith, just to mention a few.

 

[Z mann R2]

So the exception to the rule in this case would be Flacco and SAnchez. Both have pedigree and skills but dont seem like they will be great Qb's in the league. IF anything they seem to be following the path of Dilfer and company that won because a great Defense and running game.


I'm happy to have Romo that's for sure.

Sanchez has 20 INT's this year....guess how many Peyton manning had his rookie year?? 28!!

Sanchez will be a good QB.....count on it

 

[Biggems]

who here is a Romo sapien like me?

 

[aikemirv]

I think Romo is a "great" player. Whether he will go down as a great player(QB) in the NFL is just a matter of longevity.

He is not just a good QB when he is out there on the field, he makes everyone around him better - he continually makes plays - he makes them in crunch time/4th quarter - he makes them in big games -that makes him great - he makes plays that few others can make and he consistently does it.

If you want to say that he is not one of the all-time great - that is fair - but to say he is not a great player right now and just good is absolutely wrong!

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Years ago when I first found fan forums (2002 when Emmitt broke the record) I was consistently in heated debates about why you need a great QB. The problem at that time was that our QBs were not great (Hutchinson had just replaced Carter), but they had some of the most ardent fans I have ever seen.


Ardent hell, in retrospect they were downright blind. I introduced to the forums my belief in Quarterback pedigree and the idea that you need a great Quarterback to go anywhere. The argument in response usually centered around Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson having won Super Bowls and were mediocre Quarterbacks. I continue to maintain they have rings because their Defenses carried their teams.

One would have a hard time arguing that a top-notch quarterback is not an essential part to winning a Super Bowl. I would argue, that at one point, Brad Johnson was a top-notch quarterback however hindered by injuries throughout the majority of his career.

And who wouldn't be ardent about the team they're a fan of?

Pedigree has faults of course. Drew Henson is proof of that. You simply cannot gauge what a player will do with the chances they receive. He didn't do enough. Period. There will always be a faction who believe Parcells sabotaged him, but I will always maintain if you are good enough, no one can truly keep you down.

"Pedigree", in my opinion, is somewhat of a misnomer because it fails to articulate what is really important in a quarterback, intangibles--and Romo has that, Henson did not.

I'm not starting an old debate, because you've been a big supporter of Romo. I do, however, agree with you in that there are faults within the term "pedigree". I think it's an mostly irrelevant, but you could apply it to the Mannings, so it does hold some water. However, I maintain it should not be use as a tool or term to gauge a quarterback's potential or abilities.

Which brings me to Tony Romo. He has a very quiet pedigree that none of us knew about. He broke all of the passing records at Eastern Illinois that were previously held by Sean Payton. Mike Shanahan is also an alum of Eastern Illinois and like Payton is considered an Offensive guru.

I wouldn't say that "none" of use knew about this. I, for one, argued that he indeed had intangibles. But most, at the time, told me it was silly to argue over the back up quarterback... the old Drew v Tony debates. I caught a lot of grief over that. Yet my argument was that people weren't seeing his "quiet pedigree", if you want to call it that. I never thought his small school stature was a problem and I always believed he was the best quarterback on our roster after it was obvious that Henson and Carter weren't going to cut it. It was delightful to see Parcells yank Bledsoe and finally pull the trigger on a very talented player.

I don't think Romo has the biggest arm. I never have. He doesn't need it. He has guile, guts, and as quick a release as anyone in the NFL today. Maybe only Kurt Warner is as fast. Is it Dan Marino fast? No. But it is fast enough. He also has the one thing I truly love in a Quarterback, accuracy.

Romo has an above average arm in my opinion. And what is special about it is his release. He is accurate, as you say. Yet I argue his work ethic, attitude, guile and intangibles -- both physically and mentally -- are only a few of the things that make him a great quarterback.

I still cannot believe there were people in 2002 and 2003 who were telling people that accuracy in a Quarterback is over rated. One guy was so insistent upon this theory that he actually said Troy Aikman was over rated and only great because of the pieces around him. I remain perplexed at this mouth breather theory.

Aikman was accurate, but to say he could have won single-handed is sort of silly.

Finally the final intangible needed for a Quarterback to be great seems to be present in ours. He is a leader. There were questions about this right up until a few weeks ago. Allegations he allowed a prima donna WR to overpower him, folds under pressure, and lacked focus. If anyone says that these things did not enter their minds they are either lying or completely unaware.

I disagree. You're stating this as fact without having a factual basis to rely on. Your paradigm or model here is without a doubt that Tony Romo, and only Tony Romo allowed TO to overpower him, folded under pressure and lacked focus. And if you didn't consider these things as reality, then you're completely unaware. I respect your opinion, but very much disagree here. I will say that I thought getting rid of his ex, Jessica Simpson, was good for Romo mentally. However, I don't think he folds under pressure and I would venture to say that Romo may have had a hand in TO's departure.

I would also say that unless you are closely related to Romo or the team that you cannot state as fact what another may, or may not, be completely unaware of. That's outright fallacious.

It can be said without raising eyebrows, Tony Romo is a great leader. Is he a rah rah guy like Drew Brees? No. Is he a fiery in your face guy like Phillip Rivers? No. Is he a machine like Peyton Manning? No. He's often compared to Brett Favre for his gunslinger tendencies. I think he's a lot more like Kurt Warner than he is Favre.

He has characteristics of many great quarterbacks. It's hard to pin him down as being very similar to one. But I can see the comparisons to both Favre and Warner.

Humble guy, quick release, highly intelligent, and from a small school. They both went undrafted and then found their way to stardom simply by refusing to give up. I consider this comparison to be a high compliment to Tony Romo because I hold Kurt Warner in very high regard.

That's the argument I've always stood by. It doesn't matter which school you came from. Stories of overcoming odds are part of successful people's stories in this world everyday, and not just in football.

I think it is increasingly more impossible to win in the NFL without a top Quarterback at the helm. We saw the irrefutable evidence of this last year when Romo went down and came back too soon because the ship was sinking. Without him, we were as pedestrian as a jaywalker in heavy traffic.

I admit, I thought Brad Johnson still had something left. That was like watching a bad movie that became reality. I agree, wholeheartedly.

This year, with him, we've been in every game except maybe one. He is playing at such a high level it is impossible not to recognize it if you have your eyes open at all. I have never understood the incredible level of scrutiny he has been under. I think part of it is that we were so bad for a while that we are afraid of how great someone really can be again.

I 100% agree with all of this.

I often hear people who are long time fans of this team say that in 1989 they could see the greatness in Aikman even as the team was losing. I agree with them, because I said the same things then. A lot of Cowboys fans did. It was not a unique phenomenon by any means. Some guys simply have it. Whatever it is.

Romo has it. For some reason, I argued this to the point of being a nuisance to some on the board. I regret the way I argued about Romo, but I don't regret arguing for him. For the clown sigs of Henson and personal insults to people I respect, even you, I apologize. I just felt strongly about his potential. Hopefully, I'm forgiven for that. If not, please reconsider.

Tony Romo has it. It needed to be cajoled and groomed out of him. Once he took the field in 2006 anyone who had their eyes open could see it. I think the doubts about him have been more frustrating to me than any other aspect of the doubts about this team. I think they have been outright unfair far more than they have been even handed.

I agree wholeheartedly.

If you look at the Quarterbacks still alive in these final 8 teams you will see one thing very much in common with all of them. They are either in the upper echelon of Quarterbacks in the NFL or they have the potential to be there very soon. If you look at the 12 Quarterbacks whose teams made the playoffs I think you can safely say that they are closer to being the top 12 starting Quarterbacks in the NFL than the bottom 12 starting Quarterbacks in the NFL.

...which supports the argument that a team, these days, needs more than just a bus driver. They need a player, a leader, a captain of the ship. Tony Romo fits the bill. I'm more excited than I ever imagined, because as hard as it is to admit I did have some doubts about him before he became the starter. I wanted him to get a shot and I knew deep down he was better than Henson. However, when he took the field replacing Bledsoe I knew. After that point I never had any doubt that he would be our leader for many many years to come.

That is a fact that I notice every year. A top Quarterback gives you a better chance to be in the running for Post Season glory than any other aspect of the game. You hear that Defense wins Championships, and to a degree that is pure fact. Not without a Quarterback who the team believes in, and not year after year. To be a consistent contender in the NFL you need a great Quarterback.

We are so blessed to have one.

It's sort of silly to say that defense wins championships. It takes a team, and for the most part a team with a good quarterback. Rarely have we ever seen a mediocre quarterback win a Super Bowl. Yes, Trent Dilfer has a ring. But that's more of an anomaly than the norm. And I agree we are blessed to have Romo. At this point, he is still underrated by the media. But that has more to do with them not wanting to succeed, embracing the hatred so-to-speak. Envy makes people do funny things. We have something to be proud of. We have something to believe in.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Yeah I'm not talking about when he left/got banned last time. Specifically I remember a preseason game people from this board went to and them making the comment that Romo had a noodle arm and threw lollipops. Then I remember Nors arguing about it and using the term 'three blind mice'.

Anyway I'm not going to start a debate about it, just thought it was funny that he might have actually been right about something.

Yes, Nors and I were both arguing Romo's combine statistics where he threw the ball nearly as hard as Favre. The three blind mice reference was to Hos, Blindzebra and Adbutcher seeing Romo throw lollipops. I went so far as to make some insults about this.

However, when I was in Oxnard watching Romo throw I didn't think it was him. The passes looked like, well, lollipops. Maybe Romo saves his gun for the game. Or maybe it just looks like that from the ground. Either way, it's not necessary or productive to try to boost one's ego in order to "prove" someone was wrong when we're all subject to being wrong. It also does nothing good to harp on others when people change their minds and actually see the talent rather than being stubborn for the sake of being right.

With the exception of BlindZebra, who I think just doesn't post much anymore, Hos and Adbutcher are some of Romo's biggest supporters. If you ask me, that take more testicular fortitude than saying "I told you so" or being bent on being right even when the picture is clear that we have a quarterback. Hos's post makes clear his support for Romo as well as his own flaws in thinking.

Just as easily, I could be criticized or be "called out" for my view on Austin. I bashed the guy's ability. I thought he was a waste. But that goes to show how much I'm "right" about.

This board gets too caught up in being right or wrong, rather than being objective. I've stooped to that level, and I regret those comments to Hos, Ad, and BZ. It was uncalled for. But we get so darned passionate about this team we often lose our composure and fail to realize there is a person on the other side of the screen, with feelings, opinions, knowledge and everything.

I'm the poster formally known as BnA. I joked and my name became Banned_n_austin. But that's because I wasn't objective and indeed I was somewhat of an antagonist. Not excuse making, but being in the minority often breeds that attitude. There is no excuse for how I acted. I hold myself accountable for being a...jerk.

I'm not responding to this post because I supported Romo and I was right. I supported Romo and I was wrong, wrong about how I went about supporting him. Wrong about acting in such a way that I lost friends on this board along the way.

The point is everyone is enjoying this ride. And I guarantee you, all of us are guilty of being wrong and right. And there is no need to boost your ego over something you were right about because if that's the standard we're going by then mine should equally be deflated about being wrong about Austin. And boy was I wrong.

The point is now moot. Romo is our leader and even the most recent doubters are coming around. We should all welcome them aboard because Romo isn't going anywhere and negativity is a wasted emotion. Romo has respect now because he earned it. Players have to earn the respect of fans. I will say this, if you don't respect Romo by now, there is something wrong.

Lastly, I make my a point that we should be more objective and less egotistical. We all want to win and when it happens it's something we will all remember. Getting caught up in the childish "I told you so" arguments is meaningless and petty in the end.

We may not all agree on various aspects of the personnel, ownership, management or coaches, but we all have the same goal in mind to win the Championship we want to win a and remember for the rest of our lives.

Savor this moment and BELIEVE!

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I was one of the 3 who went to that game. He would take the opposite of any stance I take, but he was not pro-Romo. He doomed our season when Bledsoe got benched. He booked it. He was pro-Parcells guys and is a football moron. He was never high on Romo. Two guys who were high on Romo were Reality the owner of this site, and Ben-n-Austin. Ben, like Nors was more anti-Henson than pro-Romo, but he'll deny that. It is a tactic of pot stirrers.

I was both anti-Henson and pro-Romo. And I won't deny stirring the pot, but that's hard to do when there are only a few against many. It was like being attacked by every poster on this board. I stooped to childish levels, and I regret that, but for the record I was both anti-Henson and pro-Romo.

Read the above posts and you'll see where I stand now. And I do apologize for the way I went about supporting Romo. In my defense, it was a difficult stance to take at the time and any support I expressed was attacked ten-fold by the majority of this board. Again, not excuse making or denying that, but I genuinely believed Romo had potential to be great. I had doubts, like any reasonable person would. But I also believed he was worth giving a shot and he has proved not only my doubts, but a lot of others doubts wrong.

Stir the pot I did, but not for the sake of stirring the pot. I was trying to give the guy some credit. Too much hype surrounded Bledsoe and Henson. And Romo was a backdrop of all of that hype. And undeservedly, I believe. However, that is neither here nor there. I apologize for some of my "tactics" and I will say my belief in Romo was genuine.

That being said, let's let it go. It no longer matters who was what. Let's just all get on the darned bandwagon and believe!

 

[Kilyin]

I ordered my authentic Romo jersey the day after Bledsoe got yanked from the Giants game.

Oh, and I'm a jerk too, but I'm not gonna apologize for it.