Greg Hardy unlikely to face any ban

[Hoofbite]

Not from what I've read. The only real "evidence" was the girl's testimony. The other people that testified said they heard a commotion, which both defense and prosecution agree happened. If you (or anyone else) has a link to the different view you are referencing, I'm all ears. But I read a lot on this (not sure why exactly) and never saw anything beyond the girl's testimony. And that obviously has contradictions in it.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-o...-hardy-911-calls-show-conflicting-information

Transcript snippets are there, but this is probably the most relevant one.

"Domestic violence. Some girl’s getting her *** beat upstairs. And I heard it. And I seen it," a female voice is heard saying. "He is beating her *** right the f— now. So get here now. I was in the apartment. He’s beating her ***."

Just by phone calls you wouldn't be able to say either way. Hardy's suggests one thing, but someone else's has a different version of events.

The last phone call is a little comical. The guy is deathly scared and only calls in because he didn't disclose everything the first time.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Hardy was accused of Attempted Murder. Do you think a DA would drop a high profile case for a charge that serious if he had a lot of evidence but an uncooperative witness?

He wasn't on trial for attempted murder, so what he was accused of isn't really important. by not charging him with attempted murder, the DA or whom ever already decided there wasn't enough or any evidence to support that. He was charged with assault and was found guilty.

And you said there "certainly" evidence beyond her testimony. I'm still waiting for you to post a link to what that evidence was.

And you'll continue to wait, I'm not an employee of the North Carolina court system and do not have access to the court transcripts and the other information the judge used to come to her conclusion, so by all means keep pretending it doesn't exist.

 

[Kaiser]

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-o...-hardy-911-calls-show-conflicting-information

Transcript snippets are there, but this is probably the most relevant one.



e.

That is what the girl (Lawrence) said on her 911 call but under oath in court she said she didn't actually see anything. Her actual quote is below, along with some of the others from the trial. The link is at the bottom -



“I didn’t see anything.”
– Lawrence, who testified she heard Hardy “bodyslamming” Nicole Holder.

“She said, ‘He hasn’t seen crazy yet.'”
– Laura Iwanicki, Holder’s friend and co-worker, on what Holder told her while they were out the night of May 12.

“I plead the Fifth.”
– Iwanicki, on if she snorted cocaine with Holder that night.


“The weed flew out of my car.”
– Holder, describing why police found marijuana outside her car after an accident in the early morning hours of March 20.


http://blackandbluereview.com/hardy-quotes/

 

[Kaiser]

And you'll continue to wait, I'm not an employee of the North Carolina court system and do not have access to the court transcripts and the other information the judge used to come to her conclusion, so by all means keep pretending it doesn't exist.

Journalists have seen the transcripts and none of them reported there was any evidence beyond Holder's testimony. I just posted a link to some excerpts, there are others. I will continue to wait for the link because it doesn't exist.

 

[Hoofbite]

Hardy was accused of Attempted Murder. Do you think a DA would drop a high profile case for a charge that serious if he had a lot of evidence but an uncooperative witness?

And you said there "certainly" evidence beyond her testimony. I'm still waiting for you to post a link to what that evidence was.

Alternatively, if Hardy was accused of attempted murder do you think the DA would bring charges against him if there was zero evidence to suggest anything happened?

Of course not.

People can downplay the guilty verdict because it was a bench trial all they want, but there was enough evidence to warrant both charges and the guilty verdict. Bench trials can clear people just the same as a jury trial can. Guilty is not the only possible outcome.

Roethlisberger never even had charges filed, but it's widely believed by most that he assaulted that girl. Furthermore, I would be hard-pressed to think that he's received even a portion of the stringent defense that Hardy has received on this board.

 

[Kaiser]

Alternatively, if Hardy was accused of attempted murder do you think the DA would bring charges against him if there was zero evidence to suggest anything happened?

That's the point. There was evidence in the form of a police statement the girl gave the night of the incident. At trial she told a different story and admitted to using coke that night. At that point the DA didn't have any credible evidence to go forward with.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Journalists have seen the transcripts and none of them reported there was any evidence beyond Holder's testimony. I just posted a link to some excerpts, there are others. I will continue to wait for the link because it doesn't exist.

various quotes on a board named after the Carolina panthers is not a court transcript.

 

[Nightman]

various quotes on a board named after the Carolina panthers is not a court transcript.

There are no court transcripts for a bench trial in NC. It is more informal. That is what people are trying to show. Hardy's defense team paid to have their own transcripts made. The prosecutors wanted a copy after the bench trial because her testimony differed from her original statements. The defense finally relented and allowed the prosecutors to see the transcripts. When they couldn't find her they decided to drop all charges even though they could have proceeded without her if they vouched for her original statements. They weren't willing to do that and had no choice but to drop all charges.

 

[TheDude]

Alternatively, if Hardy was accused of attempted murder do you think the DA would bring charges against him if there was zero evidence to suggest anything happened?

Of course not.

People can downplay the guilty verdict because it was a bench trial all they want, but there was enough evidence to warrant both charges and the guilty verdict. Bench trials can clear people just the same as a jury trial can. Guilty is not the only possible outcome.

Roethlisberger never even had charges filed, but it's widely believed by most that he assaulted that girl. Furthermore, I would be hard-pressed to think that he's received even a portion of the stringent defense that Hardy has received on this board.

That's the point. There was evidence in the form of a police statement the girl gave the night of the incident. At trial she told a different story and admitted to using coke that night. At that point the DA didn't have any credible evidence to go forward with.

Not much of a dog in this fight, but to say there was less evidence here then the "Dez incident" is not a good comparison.

http://www.nccourts.org/County/Mecklenburg/Documents/SuspendingMisdemeanor.pdf

http://www.nccourts.org/County/Mecklenburg/Documents/hardydismissal2.pdf

He was convicted by a judge, chose a jury trial as his right (had he not the original would have stood). As in most DV cases, if the victim doesnt show, the cases are dropped 99.9% of the time. The dismissal pdf last page note hat the DA tried to subpoena Ms Holder at her known residence, employment and staking out a new residence.

Could she be lying? of course, but the intial judge didnt buy hardy's story and bought hers.

The Panthers are a pretty conservative org (used to live in CLT and still know some people in the Panther org there). The whole story with the coke, guns, and perceived attitude from Hardy played heavily into their decision - as much the NFL pressure led to the events last season - from what I hear.

All that said, I am a financial market guy. If there is any price concession of banged up assets, you should look to bring them in for relative value. However, I am sure Dallas may not want to roll the dice and have a team of Hardy, AP, Randle, and Dez (if they are scared there is something there). I think the Dez thing is nearing over - But Im not writing $30M checks either

 

[Hoofbite]

That is what the girl (Lawrence) said on her 911 call but under oath in court she said she didn't actually see anything. Her actual quote is below, along with some of the others from the trial. The link is at the bottom -

“I didn’t see anything.”
– Lawrence, who testified she heard Hardy “bodyslamming” Nicole Holder.

“She said, ‘He hasn’t seen crazy yet.'”
– Laura Iwanicki, Holder’s friend and co-worker, on what Holder told her while they were out the night of May 12.

“I plead the Fifth.”
– Iwanicki, on if she snorted cocaine with Holder that night.

“The weed flew out of my car.”
– Holder, describing why police found marijuana outside her car after an accident in the early morning hours of March 20.


http://blackandbluereview.com/hardy-quotes/

Not sure where this is going. This would be all stuff that isn't in any phone call, one of which you said would win the case by itself. So the case isn't as open and shut as taking the defendants words at face value? Who knew.

They're also from the trial that handed down the guilty verdict so not sure what use it is to discuss them. Whatever damage they were intended to do clearly didn't undermine the eventual outcome of the case. They weren't influential, but because the case is blocked from public access we don't know what the other evidence was.

 

[Hoofbite]

http://www.nccourts.org/County/Mecklenburg/Documents/hardydismissal2.pdf

Court filings acknowledge what most suspected, a settlement outside of the courts.

 

[Nightman]

Not much of a dog in this fight, but to say there was less evidence here then the "Dez incident" is not a good comparison.

http://www.nccourts.org/County/Mecklenburg/Documents/SuspendingMisdemeanor.pdf

http://www.nccourts.org/County/Mecklenburg/Documents/hardydismissal2.pdf

He was convicted by a judge, chose a jury trial as his right (had he not the original would have stood). As in most DV cases, if the victim doesnt show, the cases are dropped 99.9% of the time. The dismissal pdf last page note hat the DA tried to subpoena Ms Holder at her known residence, employment and staking out a new residence.

Could she be lying? of course, but the intial judge didnt buy hardy's story and bought hers.

The Panthers are a pretty conservative org (used to live in CLT and still know some people in the Panther org there). The whole story with the coke, guns, and perceived attitude from Hardy played heavily into their decision - as much the NFL pressure led to the events last season - from what I hear.

All that said, I am a financial market guy. If there is any price concession of banged up assets, you should look to bring them in for relative value. However, I am sure Dallas may not want to roll the dice and have a team of Hardy, AP, Randle, and Dez (if they are scared there is something there). I think the Dez thing is nearing over - But Im not writing $30M checks either

It also described in detail how they could have continued without her but, after going over the transcripts that the defense paid for, they didn't feel they could even enter her original statements because of inconsistencies with her testimony in the bench trial.

 

[Hoofbite]

That's the point. There was evidence in the form of a police statement the girl gave the night of the incident. At trial she told a different story and admitted to using coke that night. At that point the DA didn't have any credible evidence to go forward with.

And all this was considered by the judge who still found him guilty. Clearly there is more evidence.

 

[TheDude]

It also described in detail how they could have continued without her but, after going over the transcripts that the defense paid for, they didn't feel they could even enter her original statements because of inconsistencies with her testimony in the bench trial.

Well yeah, thats why most DVs are dropped if the witness doesn't cooperate because the DA has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Most are he said/she said...if no "she said", then hard to prove guilt in court.. The only times DV continue without a main "witness" are usually if hospital stays (broken bones, etc.) or pictures taken by officers show excessive injuries.


Hardy could be getting railroaded. Most DVs automatically side with the woman, but if a man calls and he gets taken away and the female doesn't, that is a little more curious

I will say that any person who receives money for silence - to me - isnt that scarred or scared or in it for the principle of justice. That is my own bias

 

[Hoofbite]

Well yeah, thats why most DVs are dropped if the witness doesn't cooperate because the DA has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Most are he said/she said...if no "she said", then hard to prove guilt in court.. The only times DV continue without a main "witness" are usually if hospital stays (broken bones, etc.) or pictures taken by officers show excessive injuries.


Hardy could be getting railroaded. Most DVs automatically side with the woman, but if a man calls and he gets taken away and the female doesn't, that is a little more curious

I will say that any person who receives money for silence - to me - isnt that scarred or scared or in it for the principle of justice. That is my own bias

Well, when "justice" in the face of irrefutable video evidence is court-ordered counseling like in the Rice case, it's a little hard to stay involved for the "principle of justice".

You have to be confident justice will be served before you can hang in there based on principle.

Granted, Hardy would have had his original 60 day and 18 month probation sentence to deal with, but would that be justice? Says who? Would it have been for Rice?

Life changing sums of money are hard to pass up. The NFL knows these guys can buy their way out of a lot of situations, which is why they will look into a situation further than what the courts determine.

 

[TheDude]

Well, when "justice" in the face of irrefutable video evidence is court-ordered counseling like in the Rice case, it's a little hard to stay involved for the "principle of justice".

You have to be confident justice will be served before you can hang in there based on principle.

Granted, Hardy would have had his original 60 day and 18 month probation sentence to deal with, but would that be justice? Says who? Would it have been for Rice?

Life changing sums of money are hard to pass up. The NFL knows these guys can buy their way out of a lot of situations, which is why they will look into a situation further than what the courts determine.

Fair point. money talks. Freedom from hassle and piece of mind have value

 

[tunahelper]

He was found guilty. Verdict: "the court is entirely convinced Hardy is guilty of assault on a female and communicating threats."

On appeal the charges were dropped because of an out of court settlement...

He would be our Charles Haley 2.0. Crazy as a loon, but terrific pass rusher. Sign him please.

 

[Nirvana]

This guy could be the Charles Haley we need. Sign him up.

 

[Nirvana]

He would be our Charles Haley 2.0. Crazy as a loon, but terrific pass rusher. Sign him please.

Crazy just read this post after I wrote mine. Very similar. Cheers.

 

[Stash]

Has nothing to do with high and mighty, it's just naïve to think there was no evidence when a judge said other wise. My post even indicated that there is a possibility that he truly isn't guilty, but you clearly what to believe what suits your desire, which is him in Dallas

While you want to believe the woman's side of the story. I get it. But at least I made an attempt to get all of the facts to make the most informed decision that I could.