Ground & Pound

[Sydla]

When Zeke the Freak hits a couple of home runs, I will be right there with a towel waiting to catch the dribble as you slobber all over the television screen. I got your back.

Which has nothing to do with my point.

 

[Bleu Star]

And I just completely missed someone saying it's possible this team could rush for 300 yards in a few games if they wanted to.

LOL. I get being excited but hahahahahaha. 300 yard rushing games are rare in the NFL. And yet we could drop a few in one season?

With Zeke and whichever of the other two takes over the #2 spot. Most definitely. Do you doubt our oline?

 

[Bleu Star]

Which has nothing to do with my point.

I got u bro.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Im worried that Zeke will go the way of all the other Big 10running backs, but i hope he doesnt. We need him to better than Eddie George and Mendenhall

 

[Sydla]

With Zeke and whichever of the other two takes over the #2 spot. Most definitely. Do you doubt our oline?

I don't doubt the OL or Elliott.

But I also know 300 yard rushing performances from teams, even ones with great OLs, is a rare feat in the NFL.

It has nothing to do with my feelings about the OL (which is the best in the NFL). It has everything to do with looking at history and understanding how rare a feat it is.

 

[JoeKing]

Im worried that Zeke will go the way of all the other Big 10running backs, but i hope he doesnt. We need him to better than Eddie George and Mendenhall

I have the same fears. The Cowboys need him to be a homerun pick. They may be so dependent on his rushing to extended Romo's career that he is used up by the end of his rookie contract.

 

[waldoputty]

One, it's going to be tough for a rookie to drop an 1,800 yard season like Murray did. Despite his flaws, that 2014 season was a great season for a RB. So to expect Elliott to better than that is probably a stretch.

Two, you can continue to say what you said in that last sentence and believe it but actual evidence suggests otherwise. That is, unless of course, Elliott has a season that dwarfs all seasons ever by a TB.

I hope Elliott is not going to get 1800 yards. That would be burning him out.
You do have 2 other backs, and possibly Morris closes.

 

[waldoputty]

Who are both at this point in their careers a big step down from Murray in 2014, and will offset whatever superior production you believe you are going to get from Elliot.

If you use Morris to close, I dont think it is a big step down from Murray 2014.

Also if Zeke breaks a bunch of runs that Murray would have 'almost have broke', his YPC may be much higher and would not need as many carries to get lots of yards. We all remember the run in Green Bay that almost broke but became a fumble...

Everyone is expecting you to run, so Morris' lack of catching skills will not be a big issue.
The RB gets whacked particularly during those runs.
So may as well save our franchise back from those carries.

DMC is for backup and probably in place of Dunbar.

 

[waldoputty]

And I just completely missed someone saying it's possible this team could rush for 300 yards in a few games if they wanted to.

LOL. I get being excited but hahahahahaha. 300 yard rushing games are rare in the NFL. And yet we could drop a few in one season?

i was half kidding

 

[waldoputty]

I don't doubt the OL or Elliott.

But I also know 300 yard rushing performances from teams, even ones with great OLs, is a rare feat in the NFL.

It has nothing to do with my feelings about the OL (which is the best in the NFL). It has everything to do with looking at history and understanding how rare a feat it is.

Guys, I was half kidding.
I also made the 6000 yard analogy as hyberbole...
Do remember Elliott rushed for ~230 yards in the BCS game though.
I am not saying this will be common place.
But you may have 4 probowl OL on the same line that could be beating down on some crapping DLs at least a few weeks per season?

Do I think we could do that to a weak DL if Elliott is what we hope against a weak team?
I think so once in a while if things align right.

 

[Doomsday101]

You have to be trolling now.

You showed me the difference in conversions. And then I showed you the fact that the difference in conversion percentages did not translate over to the amount of plays the defense faced in 2014 compared to 2015.

How are you missing this?

2014 offensive 3rd down conversion rate = 2nd in the NFL
2015 offensive 3rd down conversion rate = 26th in the NFL

2014 defensive snaps = 950
2015 defensive snaps = 967

So while there was a large difference in offensive third down conversion rates, in terms of saying that a better conversion rate will lead to less snaps for the defense, it doesn't work.

A 24 slot drop in 3rd down conversion resulted in the defense playing 17 more snaps in the 2015 season, just over one more snap per game.

You keep talking in theories........... yes, in theory if the defense is on the sidelines they can rest and will be fresh. However, as it pertains to the Cowboys and this season compared to 2015 and 2014, it's unlikely that the problem the defense has is the offense putting them on the field too long.

Only thing I toll for is fish, sorry I disagree with you but I think the longer the Cowboys can maintain drives the longer the defense is sitting and resting.

 

[Sydla]

Only thing I toll for is fish, sorry I disagree with you but I think the longer the Cowboys can maintain drives the longer the defense is sitting and resting.

Then you are content in ignoring actual evidence, I guess.

I get that you guys are really, really pumped up for Elliott and that you are trying hard to come up with a thousand different ways to justify his selection at 4, but some of this stuff is just too funny. Even in the face of actual facts, you guys still don't want to believe it. LOL.

I think Elliott is a fine TB. Likely better than McFadden even right from the start. He's going to be a big help to the offense. But you guys go overboard and ignore actual evidence that suggests saying he's the biggest help to the defense as well. You guys cite certain theories as to why that will be the case but when one actually looks at the numbers, it's likely not true.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Only thing I toll for is fish, sorry I disagree with you but I think the longer the Cowboys can maintain drives the longer the defense is sitting and resting.

If this was true, you would have seen it between 2014 and 2015

TOP by offence was average per game 32:12 in 2014 (this was #3 in the league)
TOP by offence dropped to 31:07 in 2015

So, per game, you are looking at 1 minute and six seconds of additional time per game that the defense was not on the field.

Even if you improved the disparity, the best you could hope for would be maybe two minutes a game difference.

 

[Sydla]

And if people are worried about Elliott running for 1800 yards and being overworked because you can't let a TB play that much, then you just gave credibility to the argument made by those who said you don't take a TB at 4.

 

[waldoputty]

And if people are worried about Elliott running for 1800 yards and being overworked because you can't let a TB play that much, then you just gave credibility to the argument made by those who said you don't take a TB at 4.

no one will worry if zeke gets 1800 yards because his ypc is incredible.
murray's 1800 yards is the result of ~400 carries.
thought everyone was concerned with burning murray out in 2014.

we want zeke to last at least 5 years.
there are times when everyone knows you will be running like when you are running out the clock.
those carries can be taken by cheaper backs like morris, who is not a pass threat.

 

[Doomsday101]

Then you are content in ignoring actual evidence, I guess.

I get that you guys are really, really pumped up for Elliott and that you are trying hard to come up with a thousand different ways to justify his selection at 4, but some of this stuff is just too funny. Even in the face of actual facts, you guys still don't want to believe it. LOL.

I think Elliott is a fine TB. Likely better than McFadden even right from the start. He's going to be a big help to the offense. But you guys go overboard and ignore actual evidence that suggests saying he's the biggest help to the defense as well. You guys cite certain theories as to why that will be the case but when one actually looks at the numbers, it's likely not true.

Has nothing to do with Elliott, heck I wanted Ramsey as the pick. I like Elliott and I think he can help the Cowboys. I have also been watching and playing this game for over 45 years and as an ex defensive player I know that when the offense can maintain drives it allows the defense to get their wind on the other hand as a defensive players when you have been on the field for a long series then your offense goes out and does a 3 and out forcing you back on the field you really start to suck wind. You see the defenders bent over with their hands on their knees as they are trying to catch their breath. You can play with the numbers all you want but does not change a simple fact when offense can maintain drives and convert 3rd down instead of punting it back to the opposition the defense has more time to rest.

 

[Doomsday101]

If this was true, you would have seen it between 2014 and 2015

TOP by offence was average per game 32:12 in 2014 (this was #3 in the league)
TOP by offence dropped to 31:07 in 2015

So, per game, you are looking at 1 minute and six seconds of additional time per game that the defense was not on the field.

Even if you improved the disparity, the best you could hope for would be maybe two minutes a game difference.

Dallas 3rd down conversion in 2014 was in the top 3 in 2015 we were 26th in 3rd down conversions. It is not so much overall TOP since that stat can be misleading as teams milk the clock late in the games.

 

[kevm3]

A solid running game can help close the game, which has been very problematic for us. Instead of us giving the opposing team the ball back at the end of the game and having them score, we burn the clock out. If Zeke can bring the 3rd down and redzone performance of Murray, then it was definitely worth getting him.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Dallas 3rd down conversion in 2014 was in the top 3 in 2015 we were 26th in 3rd down conversions. It is not so much overall TOP since that stat can be misleading as teams milk the clock late in the games.

If you look at TOP and/or defensive snaps per game, they both do not have a large difference.

Where are you seeing a notable difference in how long or how many snaps the defense is playing?

 

[Sydla]

Has nothing to do with Elliott, heck I wanted Ramsey as the pick. I like Elliott and I think he can help the Cowboys. I have also been watching and playing this game for over 45 years and as an ex defensive player I know that when the offense can maintain drives it allows the defense to get their wind on the other hand as a defensive players when you have been on the field for a long series then your offense goes out and does a 3 and out forcing you back on the field you really start to suck wind. You see the defenders bent over with their hands on their knees as they are trying to catch their breath. You can play with the numbers all you want but does not change a simple fact when offense can maintain drives and convert 3rd down instead of punting it back to the opposition the defense has more time to rest.

Again, no one denies that. If one defense plays 20 minutes a game and only faces 50 plays a game and another defense plays 35 minutes a game and faces 70 plays a game, yes, that defense is going to get worn down.

The problem is that you are trying to apply that theory to the Cowboys and trying to argue that the reason the 2014 defense was better was they played less than the 2015 defense that didn't have as good a running game. Problem is, the actual stats indicate that despite having as not an effective running game as the 2014 defense, the 2015 defense didn't spend a significant amount of time on the field compared to the 2014 defense. You cited 3rd down conversion rates and again, while the theory makes sense, in reality the 2015 defense was one the field roughly the same amount as the 2014 defense and yet the 2015 had an offense with a much worse 3rd down conversion percentage for their offense.

It's not playing with numbers at all. That's what people say when they can't refute actual data. The numbers are what the numbers are.

And what they seem to indicate is that while Elliott is a great TB prospect, it's unlikely he's going to cause a massive swing in the number of plays the defense faces. That's just reality.