Hamlins arent' the ball hawks needed at FS

[JustDezIt]

MIKE HAMLIN

Here's a guy who also missed a chunk of last year due to injury, but I was surprised to find out that his Combine 40 speed was one of the slowest at the safety position in the draft. He was timed at 4.62

Here's his nfl.com draft Analysis...

Positives: Rangy player with the frame to add an additional 10-15 pounds of mass. ... Quick to come up in run support. ... Willing to take on blocks to get to the action. ... Reliable tackler in the open field who flashes hitting ability. ... Wrap-up tackler who looks to punch or rip the ball out to create a turnover. ... Instinctive in coverage. Reads the quarterback's eyes and gets a good break on the ball due to his feel for the game. ... Natural hands for the interception. ... Competes for the ball and can time his leap to catch it at its highest point. ... Good vision and elusiveness with the ball in his hands. ... Cerebral player who lines up the Clemson defensive backfield and was voted a permanent team captain as a junior.


Neither of these two guys inspire enough confidence to forego drafting a standout BALL HAWK at safety.

????? sounds like a playmaker to me? am i reading it wrong? plus we haven't seen him play in a game, how do we know?

 

[InmanRoshi]

I think it is over used also. Everyone expects an INT out of these guys every down the way it seems anyway.
Just not going to happen.

Ken Hamlin - 0 INTs - 0 Forced Fumbles
Gerald Sensabaugh - 1 INT - 0 Forced Fumbles
Pat Watkins - 0 INT - 0 Forced Fumbles
Alan Ball - 0 INT - 0 Forced Fumbles


32 STARTS COMBINED - 1 INT, 0 FF.

I defy you to find another team in the NFL that got less big plays out of their safties this season.

Better than that, find another team in the history of the NFL that got less turnovers from their safeties.


Seriously, the lack of big plays from our safeties this year was nothing short of historical. This isn't a case of unrealistic expectations, this is a case of our safeties setting a new gold standard in the NFL for not making plays.

We're talking turnovers ... probably the single biggest deciding factor in the outcome of games. The single greatesst reason why the Saints won the NFCC and the Superbowl.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Forget his time then. Are you comortable enough with M. Hamlin to not draft a Safety with the first or second?

We have not seen enough of M. Hamlin to know if he can or can't play in this league.

BTW, my guess is we draft one in the 2nd to 4th to replace K. Hamlin.

 

[Gaede]

Ken Hamlin - 0 INTs - 0 Forced Fumbles
Gerald Sensabaugh - 1 INT - 0 Forced Fumbles
Pat Watkins - 0 INT - 0 Forced Fumbles
Alan Ball - 0 INT - 0 Forced Fumbles
.

That's horrible.

There's a couple nice options for us in this draft. Earl Thomas and Nate Allen, in particular, are realistic targets that would give us what we need.

 

[TheCount]

You haven't even seen Mike Hamlin play a couple of NFL games to begin to say you don't have confidence in him. You don't have confidence in his 40 time, and that's about it.

 

[theogt]

Antrel Rolle? please?

You do realize that INTs aren't the only coverage statistic don't you?

Per Profootballfocus.com (over the 2008 and 2009 seasons):

Rolle - 72 Targets, 686 yards given up, 5 TDs given up, 3 PDs
Hamlin - 41 Targets, 335 yards given up, 4 TDs given up, 3 PDs

Of course you don't. Interceptions from safeties are big. But they're by and large luck. The safety most often just happens to be in the right place at the right time. A true "ball hawking safety" is a pretty rare find.

 

[Rampage]

Ken Hamlin - 0 INTs - 0 Forced Fumbles
Gerald Sensabaugh - 1 INT - 0 Forced Fumbles
Pat Watkins - 0 INT - 0 Forced Fumbles
Alan Ball - 0 INT - 0 Forced Fumbles


32 STARTS COMBINED - 1 INT, 0 FF.

I defy you to find another team in the NFL that got less big plays out of their safties this season.

Better than that, find another team in the history of the NFL that got less turnovers from their safeties.


Seriously, the lack of big plays from our safeties this year was nothing short of historical. This isn't a case of unrealistic expectations, this is a case of our safeties setting a new gold standard in the NFL for not making plays.

We're talking turnovers ... probably the single biggest deciding factor in the outcome of games. The single greatesst reason why the Saints won the NFCC and the Superbowl.

that's just flat out pathetic.

 

[jazzcat22]

Ken Hamlin - 0 INTs - 0 Forced Fumbles
Gerald Sensabaugh - 1 INT - 0 Forced Fumbles
Pat Watkins - 0 INT - 0 Forced Fumbles
Alan Ball - 0 INT - 0 Forced Fumbles


32 STARTS COMBINED - 1 INT, 0 FF.

I defy you to find another team in the NFL that got less big plays out of their safties this season.

Better than that, find another team in the history of the NFL that got less turnovers from their safeties.


Seriously, the lack of big plays from our safeties this year was nothing short of historical. This isn't a case of unrealistic expectations, this is a case of our safeties setting a new gold standard in the NFL for not making plays.

We're talking turnovers ... probably the single biggest deciding factor in the outcome of games. The single greatesst reason why the Saints won the NFCC and the Superbowl.

As I said in another post....not saying thay can't do better, because they can. I was not defending them. But we do need to see more of Mike Hamin. However, do not pass up on a good S in FA or the draft. Never have enough good DB's.

That is pretty bad to look at those numbers.

 

[CF74]

Could it be that our coverage scheme dictates that we play our safeties further back and that INT's are supposed to come from our corners? Kinda like how our DE's absorb blockers to allow our LB's to get the sacks?

I gotta be honest, I was expecting Ball to get about 3-4 picks and was dismayed when he didn't get any, but it led me to thinking that maybe it's how we play them over the top...

 

[burmafrd]

The way we play in our secondary, unless we get a lot of pressure on the QBs you will not see many INTs from other then bad passes and deflections.

I would rather not GIVE up plays and get few INTS then have so called ball hawks give up just as many plays as they have INTS, and probably a lot more.

 

[TNCowboy]

There are two: Eric Berry and Earl Thomas. Berry should be long gone before our first pick, and Thomas may be gone as well.

I'd wager there's far more than 2, when it's all said and done.

 

[bayeslife]

:laugh2:

Hilarious. I'm sure Desean Jackson, Jeremy Macklin, Santana Moss, A. Randle El, D. Hixon and Steve Smith are hoping to joing you in the great laugh you're having.

Awesome, to prove that a safeties 40 time means anything, you listed a bunch of wide receivers.

Keep up the good work.

 

[theogt]

The way we play in our secondary, unless we get a lot of pressure on the QBs you will not see many INTs from other then bad passes and deflections.

I would rather not GIVE up plays and get few INTS then have so called ball hawks give up just as many plays as they have INTS, and probably a lot more.

I agree with burm? Hell froze over?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I think Mike Hamlin is going to be our future SS

 

[speedkilz88]

The Cowboys consider their safeties as interchangeable. Both MHamlin and Sensabaugh are capable of playing either spot.

 

[21Savage]

I agree with burm? Hell froze over?

I saw your Hamlin-Rolle comparison and there are things you fail to mention. For instance, you did not include their 2008 stats and the fact that when Rolle does get the ball in his hands, he's way more than a playmaker.

Now, I'll gladly cut Hamlin if I can sign Rolle. The reason for that is not to follow the masses on the playmaker crusade, because I agree with you and the others on their opinions that the lack of plays is partly due to our formations and assignments. The reason for it is because Rolle is given way more man coverage responsibility in Arizona that Hamlin has ever been given here, so he'll add way more versatility and coverage ability to our secondary, as well as speed.

The moment the possibility was mention, it intrigued me. So I went back to watch our game against Arizona in 08 (as well as a couple of other Arizona games) and was pleasantly surprised to find that Rolle was asigned to cover Crayton when he was in the slot in that game. He was targeted on a bootleg and a deep shot, when he was in man coverage on Crayton on a 3rd down play, and he covered in beautifully.

There was another 3rd down play where he had an interception from perfect coverage until Crayton knocked the ball out of his hands. It's ironic that that's the same game in which Hamlin had his one int in the last 2 seasons but Rolle is astronomically better as a DB than Hamlin is. Remember DB (all encompassing).

 

[theogt]

For instance, you did not include their 2008 stats and the fact that when Rolle does get the ball in his hands, he's way more than a playmaker.

Actually, yes, I did. In fact, for the INT statistics, I included their career stats.

but Rolle is astronomically better as a DB than Hamlin is.

The stastics don't bear this out. And the fact that you don't watch nearly as many AZ games as you do Dallas games makes me confident that you're just longing for greener grass while being colorblind.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You do realize that INTs aren't the only coverage statistic don't you?

Per Profootballfocus.com (over the 2008 and 2009 seasons):

Rolle - 72 Targets, 686 yards given up, 5 TDs given up, 3 PDs
Hamlin - 41 Targets, 335 yards given up, 4 TDs given up, 3 PDs

Of course you don't. Interceptions from safeties are big. But they're by and large luck. The safety most often just happens to be in the right place at the right time. A true "ball hawking safety" is a pretty rare find.

 

[theogt]

That's about the only comeback anyone ever has to these statistical, fact-based arguments.

"Well, golly, I know what I saw."

No, you don't.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

That's about the only comeback anyone ever has to these statistical, fact-based arguments.

"Well, golly, I know what I saw."

No, you don't.

The only reason Hamlin only saw 41 attempts in 2 years is because teams could complete passes to the middle of the field with ease because Hamlin was too far back.

Your stats ring hollow. And you know it.