Hate Cliches' used to Thwart Opponent Perspectives ...Whether True or False!

[Phoenix-Talon]

Actually I do have a pretty good TAN I just got back from Sanibel Island a couple of weeks ago!!!!

Welcome back ...sounds like you enjoyed your stay. But you've actually made my point ...I left the "h" out of than just to determine what would happen...instead of getting dialogue, I get too much "off-topic" information.
BTW, good luck with the tan!

I knew where Tucker signed..... I just found it funny that you were proclaiming your cowboy knowledge as being superior to rookie fan knowledge.... that's all.

It is ...most rookie fans are totally involved with flamming, not conducting dialogue. This may come as a shock to you, but while I gave it my best effort to recognize Cowboy players that I knew, I'm an Eagles fan! I didn't even get an "E" for effort!

Without doing the research, I'd challenge you to name the Eagles OL (this is only a challenge for 1F)

as for the other part of your post..... I'll just read and watch... I'm not in the mood for a 10 page debate

Too late for that noise! Don't try to be "passive" on me now.

 

[Vintage]

PT wants us to admit that the McNabb injuries hurt Philly last year. Undoubtedly, they did.

Yet conveniantly (intentionally?), he fails to mention (ignore?) that injuries led to the downfall of our OL.

No one is saying our OL is great (well, some people here did say we were going to have a top 10 OL, but that was in a different thread)....

I am hoping for mediocre OL play.

Which is what we got before Flozell went down.

Which Bledsoe did fine with.

Your turn.

And then he throws in the typical "I want experienced members" to reply mantra. What he really wants is a couple of posters to come in here and agree with him. That's all.

Being an inexperienced poster here doesn't take away someone's post and the logic behind it. Nor does being experienced make you infallible. And being an inexperienced poster here myself, I can still see right thru the trivial crap that was your original post.


Edit: And where is summerisfunner when you need him? I bet he thought he'd never see the day I would defend our OL.

 

[AmericasTeam31]

Why don't you just ask your defense how bad the oline was last year, when they were healthy? I don't think any of them got close to Bledsoe once during the first game in Dallas....

 

[superpunk]

Say what Vintage?

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

No, see...here is where you are wrong. I freely admit, without prejudice, that McNabb played the season hurt. He did. But where you run into trouble is when you conveniantly dismiss our OL for their injuries.

Sorry to disappoint that I am not one of the experience members here.
But my points aren't rendered useless just bec. I am not an experienced member here.

Actually your defensive posture does show Inexperience, although I welcome your perspective. You have every right to launch out at me ...but doN't under estimate the fact that I didn't anticipate strong feelings. The thread isn't for the squeemish! More experienced fans realize that you've mixed the two components to support your argument. While your efforts are valiant, they actually support the myth (OL myth). BTW, the "myth" I'm referring to simply is used in place of the word "Alledged."

I appreciate the restraint in which you used by not flamming me -- that's unusal. One More observation that seems to be misleading to many ...by "rookie" I don't mean the number of posts you have. Rookie is identified by football savvy, not number of Posts.

 

[thor_01]

Welcome back ...sounds like you enjoyed your stay. But you've actually made my point ...I left the "h" out of than just to determine what would happen...instead of getting dialogue, I get too much "off-topic" information.
BTW, good luck with the tan!

______________________________________________________________

and at this point all credibillity was lost, couldnt even admit to a typo, and wants someone to take his analysis seriously..........

by the way how long u iggles fans gonna ride that mcnabb injury as an excuse, before u admit the team just fell apart at the seams last year, and get on with it..............

oh i actually did mispell and abbreviate on purpose, wont need to make excuses about it later lol:laugh2:

 

[Vintage]

Actually your defensive posture does show Inexperience, although I welcome your perspective.

Defensive posture? This gets more laughable by the minute.

I am pointing out a hole in your logic. McNabb's injury affected the Eagles (which for the record, I agree with).

Yet, take a look at our offense before Flozell's injury? I think it was doing "ok" for itself. Bledsoe included. While it wasn't the juggernaut that is the Indianapolis Colts, it was putting up points on the board and getting us wins.

If our OL was working with Flozell being in it, and an injured Rivera, a not able to lift weights bec. he was rehabbing Al Johnson at Center, its plausible to believe our OL should be somewhat improved, or at least, on pace with what it was BEFORE Flozell went down.

Back when our offense, was you know, doing "ok" for itself.

You ignore this.

But yet claim McNabb coming back from injury is the saving grace for your offense.

Flawed logic.

 

[FLcowboy]

Myth#1: McNabb's Injury Not a Factor

Dang, what does a QB have to do to convince someone that he's incurred a debilitating injury earlier into the 2005 season than most people want to believe.

McNabb nursed three seperate injuries: chest and shin contusions and an abdominal strain. If the chest contusion were not problematic enough another worry for the Eagles is centered around the "abdominal strain", which indeed turned out to be the infamous sports hernia. The sports hernia posed problematic difficulties for both his performance mobility and motion-wise. The reoccuring nature of his chest contusion made D-Nabb struggle.

The rest is History! Sports hernia placed McNabb On the operating table while McMahon carried (or not) the team into the basement of the NFCE. Say what you want, but if Bledsoe was in a similar situation, you'd be singing a different tune.

At the beginning of McMahon's tenure in the 2005 season, the Eagles were already in last place in the NFC East.

Dallas 6-3
Giants 6-3
Skins 5-4
Eagles 4-5

Was McNabb hurting before the Dallas game (the second one)? Perhaps he was, but Eagles mgmt thought he could still win the game, and he very nearly did, until he pulled his 4th quarter bonehead interception. McMahon doesn't deserve all your blame for the Eagles finishing in the cellar.

Myth#2: Cowboy's OL good enough to stop NFC-East defensive Squads!

The Cowboys GM focused on ...and received exactly what they wanted ...TO! In fact, signing Kosier, and having him start at LG in place of Allen, allowed the Cowboys to have enough money to sign Owens.

The Cowboys OL is (I could be wrong, I'm not a Cowboys fan, but I've been here long enough to know your team better than most rookie Cowboy fans):

LT - Flozell Adams

LG - Al Johnson

C - Andre Gurode

RG - Rivera

RT - Fabini

The COwboys are dangerously weak at OL; especially with the loss/release (how ever you want to spin it) of Allen.

Backups ...Pettitti - RT and rookies (not worth mentioning is Torrin Tucker).

I'll bet I know what the Cowboys will do in the 2007 draft ...OL!

Well that's all I've got for now. I'm certain I'll hear from the usual suspects, but I'd really like to hear from the experience cadre of Cowboy fans (the silent minority).

Since you aren't an avid Cowboy's fan, (you would have known that Johnson played center the whole year), you probably didn't know that Jacob Rogers was penciled in as the RT in preseason. He was hurt, and went home to Mommy, thus causing Cowboys' mgmt to put Petitti (a 6th round draftee) in from the gitgo. The kid needed help, he was a LT in college, and had to learn to play RT. He was also horribly out of shape. You also probably didn't know that he suffered a high ankle sprain at the midway point in the season, and played through it. Now I realize a chest contusion like McNabb's may have been more debilitating, but a high ankle sprain was enough to put Julius Jones on the bench a few weeks.

With respect to off season moves, the Cowboys did add some offensive line personnel. They have hopes that with the off-season conditioning program for Petitti, the new additions will provide a formidable OL. We fans don't know if it will, but mgmt seems content with the moves they made.

Hope this provides some insight for you.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

1. Even when healthy, I have never been really impressed with McNabb, but he was obviously limited by injury most of last year. Any team that loses their starting QB to injury will suffer.

Well stated ...while you agree, you let me Know where you stand about McNabb. I can respect that honesty.

2. I have my fingers crossed about the Cowboy's OL. I think the toughest DL Dallas will face in the NFC East is the Giants.

The Giants ...if you say so. But I think "depth" is could also become a factor In the OL. Someone said something about a Pulling OL ...that also makes players vulnerable to ankle injuries (OL usually carries excessive weight). Hoepfully not.

 

[sonnyboy]

1) Agree. McNabb was not the same player it seemed from the start of the season and obviously got worse as the injury worsened.

2) This offensive line did very well against the NFC East teams the first time it went up against them with Flozell Adams. It did poorly the second go round without him. I think it's that simple.

It is my opinion, my speculation, my prognostication...that the 2006 Cowboy OL will be better than the 2005 OL.

1)Koiser is an upgrade over the 2005 version of Allen.
2)The 2006 Pettiti or Fabini will be better than the 2005 Pettiti.
3)The 2006 Rivera will be better than the injured 2005 Rivera.
4)The 2006 OL has better depth than the 2005 OL and will weather a major
loss much better.

Although I still believe our OL is the weakest unit on the team, I'm convinced that it should be better than the 2005 OL. Perhaps even better than the 2005 OL with Adams.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

WOW -- Gotta love Talon coming so hard with analysis of our roster -- when he doesn't even know who is on the team or what position they play.

Nice work Talon!!

Nice delivery yourself there abersonc! Kudo and sarcastic shot on my chin all in the same movement...that's the type of move I'd expect from a veteran fan.

Ouch!

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

quote ...superpunk ...If you want, we'll ignore the OP and allow you to attempt something resembling rational thought - not more mindless "The Eagles will be better - you'll see - McNabb's tummy hurt last year - and we had so many injuries to small bit players...." Blech. The Eagles sucked last year - ALL year, and it was much deeper than McNabb's poor widdle stomach-ache

...finished? Now what about myths #1 and #2 ...

 

[Xy_Oldone]

...Not the old "convincing myself..." cliche'!!? Try again!

Cliches can be true. Once again like almost all your post I read. When you reply you totally ignore the points the other person made. And just post any old thing.

No need to try again. I think I will stick with the cliche, it being true and all.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

I agree with this one. The McNabb injury was significant although he was still pretty decent for most of the year.





You got the line wrong:

LT Adams
LG Kosier (Peterman)
C Al Johnson (Gurode)
RG Rivera
RT Pettiti (Fabini)

OL is a question mark but I wouldn't say dangerously weak. Our two question marks are LG and RT. At LG we signed Kosier, who has been a starter and is a guy who moves pretty well and can get to the second level. Larry Allen was not a legitimate pro bowler any more, even though he kept going to Hawaii. The other possibility for this spot is a 3rd round pick from 2004, Peterman. He was injured his first year and a back up last year.

At RT Pettiti has reportedly significant improved his strength. He struggled last year, but he has the skills to be a solid starter. We also signed Fabini a long time starter with the Jets who until last year was remarkably durable. He's a solid player.

To sum up, we have multiple options at both of our supposed weak spots. Now we will struggle some if Flozell goes down again, but we'll still be in better position to deal with it than we were last year.

I'll take much of what you said under advisement ...

You actually made an earlier point I made a while ago about the number of Posts you have have Nothing to do with knowledge about your team. Good read. And understandably, you give a very optomistic perspective. Thanks.

 

[Vintage]

PT, what was the point of this thread? Seriously?

Your post was trash. People brought up fallacies within the arguement.

You ignore them.

 

[1fisher]

Welcome back ...sounds like you enjoyed your stay. But you've actually made my point ...I left the "h" out of than just to determine what would happen...instead of getting dialogue, I get too much "off-topic" information.
BTW, good luck with the tan!



It is ...most rookie fans are totally involved with flamming, not conducting dialogue. This may come as a shock to you, but while I gave it my best effort to recognize Cowboy players that I knew, I'm an Eagles fan! I didn't even get an "E" for effort!

Without doing the research, I'd challenge you to name the Eagles OL (this is only a challenge for 1F)



Too late for that noise! Don't try to be "passive" on me now.

I'm wearing my big boots today....it's getting a little deep in here!
I DO keep up with your team and others in the division. When my team is not playing on national or local TV you can bet I'll be watching yours (if they are on). I can name most of you starting line up on both sides of the ball.... but I'll not give you the satisfaction!

By the way.... I'm planning on working on the tan again this weekend and I don't believe you left the "H" out intentionally....

 

[superpunk]

Am I finished? Never.

Let's go with myth 1, shall we?

Myth#1: McNabb's Injury Not a Factor

Who said it wasn't? Or do you just enjoy reading your own type?

The rest is History! Sports hernia placed McNabb On the operating table while McMahon carried (or not) the team into the basement of the NFCE. Say what you want, but if Bledsoe was in a similar situation, you'd be singing a different tune.

Apparently someone's "history" is a little muddled. Sorry, buster, McNabb CARRIED the team into the basement of the NFC. This is not to say it was entirely his fault, but hey - you're the one laying it all at the feet of McMahon, while ignoring your benign pass rush, which is still dreadful, and Andy reid's pathetic coaching. Suit yourself. McNabb led your team into the basement.

Glad that's cleared up.

The Cowboys OL is (I could be wrong, I'm not a Cowboys fan, but I've been here long enough to know your team better than most rookie Cowboy fans):

LT - Flozell Adams

LG - Al Johnson

C - Andre Gurode

RG - Rivera

RT - Fabini

Apparently not.

The COwboys are dangerously weak at OL; especially with the loss/release (how ever you want to spin it) of Allen.

I'd like to see you spin Allen as a highly efficient blocking machine. Newsflash - he hasn't been the same in years. It's not spin, it's fact. Any knowledgable Cowboys fan knows he hasn't deserved to go to the pro-bowl in at least 3 years. Them's the facts. We don't know that Kosier will be any better, but his athleticism certainly gives us another dimension that Allen did not provide.

The Cowboys line is deeper - aka more options this year. Maybe having more isn't exactly ensuring a good unit, but it certainly makes us feel better than having El Gato backing up the tackle spots. (El Gato is Torrin Tucker, FYI. Also FYI....he's no longer with the team.)

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

PT wants us to admit that the McNabb injuries hurt Philly last year. Undoubtedly, they did.

PT should say ...you got me!?

I am hoping for mediocre OL play. Which is what we got before Flozell went down.

Vintage wants us to believe that midiocre OL play is what he Hopes for. But does he realize that ...mdeiocre OL play = mediocre protection for Bledsoe?

 

[superpunk]

Vintage wants us to believe that midiocre OL play is what he Hopes for. But does he realize that ...mdeiocre OL play = mediocre protection for Bledsoe?

The question is, does PT realize that Bledsoe had only mediocre protection for the first 8 games of last year when he was annihilating other teams? I'm not sure, considering I didn't even know til this afternoon that Al Johnson was our starting LG. I'm really beginning to wonder what we payed Kosier all that money for.

Myth # 11,986 - Bledsoe needs AMAZING protection to be successful.

Study up - he doesn't.

 

[CoCo]

Not sure what PT is fishing for here. He says he wants to avoid flaming but some of his commentary suggests otherwise. No matter.

Yes, McNabb's injuries no doubt hurt the Eagles in 2005. How much impact it had can be argued til the cows come home.

To the reasonable, rational mind Dallas hopes are primarily at the mercy of their OL reclamation project. Adams back from ACL surgery, Kosier new to the team, Johnson bigger and stronger in the offseason anyway, former Pro Bowler Rivera with an offseason to strengthen that back, and Pettiti back for year 2. Who can possibly know how that all works out? Even Parcells & Jones don't know. I would say there is equal cause for hope and despair. We shall see.

For the Eagles, I think they are the biggest question mark in the NFC. A case can certainly be made that they are on paper the equal of their former clubs who made the NFC title game. Yet if that were true I think they'd have weathered McNabb's injury in 05 like they did in previous seasons when Detmer & Feeley had to take the reigns for brief stints and the Eagles still won. Something looked different last year. I think there is more to their decline than McNabb's injuries. But we shall see when the games start. Quite a challenge for Andy Reid.