Here is why I don't put much stock in pressure stats

Risen Star said:


Pressuring the QB means something. Pressure stats don't. They are too subjective. You and I can watch the same game and come up with completely different pressure statistics.
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Agree that it's quite subjective. There's no one criteria for measuring a pressure, so each evaluator can use its own.

I do think it has some value to measure pressure, but the stats have to be taken as more of a general view of what happened than completely accurate depiction of it.
 
PFF and ESPN obviously define a pressure differently.

Based on my recollection, PFF basically means the defender made the QB move. That’s a ridiculous broad definition and doesn’t even look at play outcomes. Perfect example is from about 12 years ago when Anthony Spencer got a pressure on the game-ending over TD catch and run by Stevens-Howling against Arizona.
 
Hoofbite said:
PFF and ESPN obviously define a pressure differently.

Based on my recollection, PFF basically means the defender made the QB move. That’s a ridiculous broad definition and doesn’t even look at play outcomes. Perfect example is from about 12 years ago when Anthony Spencer got a pressure on the game-ending over TD catch and run by Stevens-Howling against Arizona.
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PFF's "pressure" is a combination of how many hurries, hits, and sacks a player has. I think a "hurry" in PFF is the same as a "pressure" most other places
 
4 sacks is what I’m excited about. And I’m more excited about our defense looking like they knew what they were doing. It was an encouraging night. As far as pressures and that goes I feel stats are subjective. Like what is EPA? How is that configured? Last year we had one of the worst defenses in the league but over the summer according to EPA we had the best defenses in the league when Micah was on the field. Huh? So we had the 30th ranked defense in the league but the #1 defense in the league when Micah played. How? Micah only missed 4 games. Stats are stats. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
 
I'd be curious to know the correlation or similarities in pressures between PFF and ESPN. Maybe they're not similar in absolute terms, but generally aligned when looking at it more broadly.
 
Regardless of which you prefer, they both use their own defined criteria for pressures and all players are judged on that criteria.

Comparing a players ESPN pressure to another players PFF is useless. But if you compare 2 players using the same criteria (ESPN or PFF), you get a fair comparison, regardless of whether you agree with the pressure definition or not.
 
Pressure is trying to pull off a ballet dance in the middle of an opera.
 
I was a huge fan of pressures until Anthony Spencer was on the team. It seemed like every "pressure" he produced meant he lost containment, pushing the QB out of the pocket, which would result in a huge play unless someone else, typically Ware, was there to clean that crap up.

Pressures don't mean crap when they result in big plays for the opposing offenses. Almost Anthony taught me that.
 
SackMaster said:
I was a huge fan of pressures until Anthony Spencer was on the team. It seemed like every "pressure" he produced meant he lost containment, pushing the QB out of the pocket, which would result in a huge play unless someone else, typically Ware, was there to clean that crap up.

Pressures don't mean crap when they result in big plays for the opposing offenses. Almost Anthony taught me that.
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It’s just 1 of hundreds of data points. Few, if any, provide a full picture in isolation.

I consider pressure a directional metric that has its limitations. But I still think it’s a good metric when taken in context.
 
Risen Star said:


Pressuring the QB means something. Pressure stats don't. They are too subjective. You and I can watch the same game and come up with completely different pressure statistics.
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The bigger the name, the more pressures they have.
 
The pressure stat is so subjective the NFL doesn't even officially track them. They only record quarterback hits.

But we don't need a specific number to tell us Quinnen Williams was a game wrecker last night. Future opponents are going to gameplan for him now and that will only open things up for the other d-linemen.
 
Risen Star said:


Pressuring the QB means something. Pressure stats don't. They are too subjective. You and I can watch the same game and come up with completely different pressure statistics.
Click to expand...

Really good post.
I'm of the opinion that a pressure's outcome should be included if it's gonna be a measurable stat at all.

I could care less if the defender beat the man off the snap if the QB continuously gets rid of the ball for net gains.

I'd only measure a pressure as a legitimate stat if turnovers or yards lost occcurred.
Otherwise,theyre irrelevant because they didn't effect the play.

jmo
 
darthseinfeld said:
PFF's "pressure" is a combination of how many hurries, hits, and sacks a player has. I think a "hurry" in PFF is the same as a "pressure" most other places
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Ahhh, I haven’t kept up with that site ever since the price went from 30/year to whatever they charge now. Thanks.
 
Most of the advanced analytics you need to make sure you're comparing apples to apples. There is no standard definition around them so sites use their own criteria so comparing ESPN to NFL.com to PFF just gets messy. Always do an advanced stat breakdown using the same numbers from each source instead of combining them. Pressures, separation rates, double team rates, etc all should be required to have cited sources to ensure someone isn't cherry picking data from multiple sources to fit a narrative. The numbers are great to have, but are only as good as the integrity/knowledge of the one presenting them.
 
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