Hey Key! Who Did Build this Team?

[khiladi]

Phase 1: Cap Space and high draft picks.
Phase 2: ?????
Phase 3: Profit.

Good to know. If that was all it took to turn a laughingstock into a dominant team, you'd think more teams would employ that strategy. Jim Haslett, btw.

Yeah and that other part includes good coaching, which Parcells definitely lacked here...

How many teams had talent, but sucked "***" because of coaching... The Cowboys with Parcells was definitely one of them...

 

[khiladi]

And in an identical 4 year span Jimmy spent Day 1 picks on Anthony Wright, James Richards, Godfrey Miles and James Brown and traded a 2nd round pick for one year of a washed up, broken down Alonzo Highsmith and spent what turned out to be the first pick in the 1990 Draft on Steve Walsh in the supplemental. So I guess he wasn't that great either. And he inherited the consensus #1 pick Troy Aikman, Newton, Tuinei, Gogan, Chad Henning's rights. While Parcells was an idiot because he reluctantly took Ware even though he wasn't his first choice, Jimmy is a genius for taking Emmitt when he really wanted James Francis (some say he had three defensive players he wanted to trade up for and Emmitt was his 4th choice) .... blah, blah, blah. Did Jimmy rebuild the roster or didn't he? Either you rebuild the roster and talent from top to bottom or you don't. I don't care how you do it, either you find football players or you don't. It doesn't matter where or how you find them. Erik Williams, Leon Lett and Larry Brown weren't any less football players because "they only" found them in the 2nd day, and Jay Novacek wasn't any less of an All Pro because they found him on the Plan B scrap heap.

For every dollar we spent "covering up" mistakes like Peterman and Rogers under Parcells, we saved ten by finding cheap players in unlikely places instead of having ot fill it through free agency. We "covered up" the Rogers mistake by finding Colombo for peanuts. Romo alone saved the Cowboys millions in signing bonus and high draft picks it would have cost us to draft a "pedigreed" franchise QB and hope and pray he doesn't turn out to be Byron Leftwhich/David Carr/Joey Harrington/Akilli Smith. What did we give up for Terry Glenn? A 4th rounder and $500k a year contract?

And did you just really include Skyler Green among "high draft picks"?

1. Jimmy won 2 Super Bowls, even with his busted picks.
2. In fact, Jimmy won play-off games with his busted picks.
3. Jimmy didn't have free agency, so it was a lot more difficult to recover from busted picks.
4. And your right, Jimmy did not want Emmitt originally. And that is the point. Just like Jimmy doesn't get all the credit, neither does Parcells.
5. The irony is that when the Parcells homer wants to tear down Jerry Jones, he forgets that Jimmy Johnson made bad picks. Who is responsible for the good picks? Who is responsible for Emmitt? According to the Parcells homer, it wasn't JJ.
6. BTW, it is better to try and find young talent in the draft to help imporve the team, than trying to find 40 year old QBs to bus-drive this team. If Parcells had any idea of the talent of this team, he wouldn't have a 'bus-driver' to manage the game...

 

[khiladi]

The Parcell homers stance within the last two years can be summarized as follows:

Last year - None of our players can execute. If they could properly execute Parcells game plan, they would win. They suck.

This year - Parcells built probably the most talented team in the league.

 

[Doomsday101]

BP did not take us where we would have liked to have been or he would have liked but the bottom line is he took over a team that had become a laughing stock, bottom of the barrel team in the NFC East and left us with a team who could compete for the post season.

 

[superpunk]

Yeah and that other part includes good coaching, which Parcells definitely lacked here...

At the end, he clearly wasn't reaching the players. Unfortunately, we're still waiting on certain players who were being held back by Parcells' schemes to show that that was the case, and that it wasn't just them being themselves. And sometimes, we see the same problems we had last year creeping up. (Inability to cover from the LB position, particularly out of the 3-4. Really, noone besides Burnett and Ware are truly competent in coverage. Inability to cover the TE. Seeing random scrub whitey FBs and TEs light our coverage up. So far, the defensive effort in December has been sub-par. Thank goodness for Tony Romo.)

Really, it's the acme of foolishness to try and minimize what Bill and Jerry accomplished here by dumping it all on one or the other. Yeah - Jerry provided Bill with a nice blank slate. Credit Jerry for finally digging out of the mess he made, absolutely gave Parcells a blank slate. One that was truly blank, as there are precious few players from 2003 on this team, much less in the NFL. That's how bad this team's talent level was when Parcells arrived. Aside from the few players still on our team, who from that squad is still contributing in the NFL? LaRoi Glover? So yes - Parcells had a nice situation to start from scratch. But that is hardly all it takes. Plenty of teams enter every year with that prospect, many with significantly more talent than the 2003 Dallas Cowboys. But they lack direction, purpose, and a strong hand to steer the ship. Too many people hate Parcells too much for little to no reason, which leads to arguments where they try to disregard or minimize what he accomplished here. There's no way to change that kind of irrational thought, unfortunately. So, bail.

The Parcell homers stance within the last two years can be summarized as follows:

Last year - None of our players can execute. If they could properly execute Parcells game plan, they would win. They suck.

This year - Parcells built probably the most talented team in the league.

This is a dumb post.

 

[khiladi]

BP did not take us where we would have liked to have been or he would have liked but the bottom line is he took over a team that had become a laughing stock, bottom of the barrel team in the NFC East and left us with a team who could compete for the post season.

HE took us, or the Dallas staff, including Jerry Jones. All I have seen with JJ is a dynamic and evolving GM, as well as owner.

1. Aging dynasty fell apart
2. JJ cleaned up the mess, while trying to go for one last run with Troy Aikman
3. Once the dynasty fell apart, and the mess was cleaned, and contracts over, he brought in a HOF coach, who BTW, hasn't won anything without Bellichek
4. That HOF coach left
5. Jerry Jones brought in Garrett, resigned Romo, brought in Leonard Davis against consensus, as well as Hamlin.
6. JJ brought in a coach that could actually use the talent.

Now he is about to build the premiere stadium in the league, and his corporation is the most expensive in the NFL. He is the one that introduced corporate sponsorship into the league, against the consensus of the owners, and now the owners ride on him for his business savvy.

I'd take JJ over Parcells in a heartbeat, and I'll credit him with the recovery more than Parcells...

 

[Doomsday101]

HE took us, or the Dallas staff, including Jerry Jones. All I have seen with JJ is a dynamic and evolving GM, as well as owner.

1. Aging dynasty fell apart
2. JJ cleaned up the mess, while trying to go for one last run with Troy Aikman
3. Once the dynasty fell apart, and the mess was cleaned, and contracts over, he brought in a HOF coach, who BTW, hasn't won anything without Bellichek
4. That HOF coach left
5. Jerry Jones brought in Garrett, resigned Romo, brought in Leonard Davis against consensus, as well as Hamlin.

Now he is about to build the premiere stadium in the league, and his corporation is the most expensive in the NFL. He is the one that introduced corporate sponsorship into the league, against the consensus of the owners, and now the owners ride on him for his business savvy.

I'd take JJ over Parcells in a heartbeat, and I'll credit him with the recovery more than Parcells...

I love Jerry and give him a big portion of the credit for the Cowboys. However I'm not blind to what BP did for this team as well and how he changed the loser mentality that was taking place. There are many things that have taken place for this turn around but BP is part of that no matter how anyone wants to spin it. We went from a joke to a team that could once again compete and yes BP played a big role in that. I love the job Wade has done and take no credit away from the job he is doing.

 

[khiladi]

At the end, he clearly wasn't reaching the players. Unfortunately, we're still waiting on certain players who were being held back by Parcells' schemes to show that that was the case, and that it wasn't just them being themselves. And sometimes, we see the same problems we had last year creeping up. (Inability to cover from the LB position, particularly out of the 3-4. Really, noone besides Burnett and Ware are truly competent in coverage. Inability to cover the TE. Seeing random scrub whitey FBs and TEs light our coverage up. So far, the defensive effort in December has been sub-par. Thank goodness for Tony Romo.)

So the players have problemts? But we have, according to you, probably the most 'talented team' in the league. Our defensive effort has been sub-par, but you, out of all people, consistently chant the 13-1 cheer, and talk about how great the defense was against Jason Campbell. So what your saying is that when they are 13-1, it is all Parcells, but when they get exposed, than it is about the players. That is what I thought. So Wade has done a pretty good job and scheming away the problems of this team.

As I said, the Parcells homers want to have it all. They spent so much time investing in Parcells that all credit has to be given to him.

Really, it's the acme of foolishness to try and minimize what Bill and Jerry accomplished here by dumping it all on one or the other. Yeah - Jerry provided Bill with a nice blank slate. Credit Jerry for finally digging out of the mess he made, absolutely gave Parcells a blank slate. One that was truly blank, as there are precious few players from 2003 on this team, much less in the NFL. That's how bad this team's talent level was when Parcells arrived.

Yeah, it was bad, because it was a dynasty that was on it's last breadth. Look at every single dynasty in the NFL, from Dallas of the 70s and Pittsburgh, to Green Bay, to SF, especially in the era prior to free-agency as it is now. That is a historical trend that is common to all of the teams.
Hell, it is a historical trend for countries. History is cyclical.

Aside from the few players still on our team, who from that squad is still contributing in the NFL? LaRoi Glover? So yes - Parcells had a nice situation to start from scratch. But that is hardly all it takes. Plenty of teams enter every year with that prospect, many with significantly more talent than the 2003 Dallas Cowboys. But they lack direction, purpose, and a strong hand to steer the ship. Too many people hate Parcells too much for little to no reason, which leads to arguments where they try to disregard or minimize what he accomplished here. There's no way to change that kind of irrational thought, unfortunately. So, bail.

That ship was nice and clean because of Jerry Jones. We had direction because of Jerry Jones. What direction did Parcells bring with Bledsoe and Vinny Testaverde? What direction did Parcells bring by bringing in his aging veterans? Where did the Jets go after Parcells left? People make it seem that Parcells had a direction. He brings in veterans so he can play the odds and do well a couple seasons, and then bolts. Do you think that is direction, when your main focus is to get players that are old, and you jump ship after a few years? He is just lucky that Dallas landed with Romo, and got T.O. But I give the first to Sean Payton, and the second to T.O.... Hell, even with Witten, Parcells primarily kept him in to block. It was only when Romo came into the game against the Giants, did we start to see the catching prowess of Witten, though that is the reason he was drafted in the first place. Now that Dallas is doing well, people want to Parcells all the credit... Please...

Hell, even JJ admits mistakes, and here is Parcells, cheering on KJ, his puppie, who is barking about how this team is all Parcells. Yet, it was the same KJ telling us early in the year that this team was over-rated.

This is a dumb post.

It may be dumb, but it's the truth.... This year belongs to Wade, not Parcells...

 

[khiladi]

I love Jerry and give him a big portion of the credit for the Cowboys. However I'm not blind to what BP did for this team as well and how he changed the loser mentality that was taking place. There are many things that have taken place for this turn around but BP is part of that no matter how anyone wants to spin it. We went from a joke to a team that could once again compete and yes BP played a big role in that. I love the job Wade has done and take no credit away from the job he is doing.

He created a loser mentality... He needed his ex-Giant players to come to cheer him up. He looked absolutely pathetic on the sidelines last year. He himself bailed on this team through e-mail. He quit on the Jets. Everybody was talking about how his style was suffocating the team, and didn't allow the players to play. What winning mentality did he create? His offensive game-plan was predicated on making few mistakes, and playing NOT to lose. That is a loser mentality. It wreaks of being scared to let your players play.

Wade created a winning mentality, that Parcells ego couldn't create... If by winning mentality, you mean it showed the players how NOT to create confidence in your team, than yeah, Parcells did that...

As T.O. said, the proof is in the pudding...

 

[superpunk]

So the players have problemts? But we have, according to you, probably the most 'talented team' in the league. Our defensive effort has been sub-par, but you, out of all people, consistently chant the 13-1 cheer, and talk about how great the defense was against Jason Campbell. So what your saying is that when they are 13-1, it is all Parcells, but when they get exposed, than it is about the players. That is what I thought.

As I said, the Parcells homers want to have it all. They spent so much time investing in Parcells that all credit has to be given to him.

Christ you are dense. Find me a post where I said that all credit should go to Parcells. Find me a post where I said that any credit for the performance of this year's team should go to Parcells. After you're done failing at that, go make some other **** up.

That ship was nice and clean because of Jerry Jones. We had direction because of Jerry Jones. What direction to Parcells bring with Bledsoe and Vinny Testaverde? What direction did Parcells bring by bringing in his aging veterans? Where did the Jets go after Parcells left? People make it seem that Parcells had a direction. He brings in veterans so he can play the odds and do well a couple seasons, and then bolts. Do you think that is direction, when your main focus is to get players that are old, and you jump ship after a few years? He is just lucky that Dallas landed with Romo. Now that Dallas is doing well, people want to give him all the credit... Please...

Are you even familiar with the fact that this is the second-youngest team in the NFL? And has one of the youngest starting rosters? Veterans were brought in at positions that couldn't be filled via the draft immediately. Veterans like Vinny are credited by Romo with being a great influence. Please, cease your nonsense ramblings before I burst my sides.

Hell, even JJ admits mistakes, and here is Parcells, cheering on KJ, his puppie, who is barking about how this team is all Parcells. Yet, it was the same KJ telling us early in the year that this team was over-rated.

Parcells cheers on Keyshawn? When did this happen?

It may be dumb, but it's the truth.... This year belongs to Wade, not Parcells...

I completely agree.

 

[Doomsday101]

He created a loser mentality... He needed his ex-Giant players to come to cheer him up. He looked absolutely pathetic on the sidelines last year. He himself bailed on this team through e-mail. He quit on the Jets. Everybody was talking about how his style was suffocating the team, and didn't allow the players to play. What winning mentality did he create? His offensive game-plan was predicated on making few mistakes, and playing NOT to lose. That is a loser mentality. It wreaks of being scared to let your players play.

Wade created a winning mentality, that Parcells ego couldn't create... If by winning mentality, you mean it showed the players how NOT to create confidence in your team, than yeah, Parcells did that...

We can go around all day on this but as far as I'm concerned a lot of people are the reason why this team is back to winning. No one man did this by himself it took many from the Top of the organization to the bottom and BP played a role in this turn around. As for the loser mentality I just flat disagree he took over a team that had gone 5-11 for 3 years running and helped put them back into the playoffs that is a pretty good turn around not as far as I would have liked or many others had hoped for but things improved under his watch. Did BP do it alone NO he did not because you will find no one man ever turned around a franchise it take a lot of people working together to get it done.

 

[khiladi]

Christ you are dense. Find me a post where I said that all credit should go to Parcells. Find me a post where I said that any credit for the performance of this year's team should go to Parcells. After you're done failing at that, go make some other **** up.

Why not first find me a post where I said that every team that has plenty of salary cap space and high draft picks are successful, especially because it concerns the absolute Parcells homerism that is going on here, as if he saved the Dallas Cowboys ogranization.

I'm not making **** up, I just quoted you how your all on the jock of this defense when you want to be, but when it concerns saving the face of Parcells, this defense has holes. And that we need to be grateful that Tony Romo is here to save the most 'talented team in the league', per your own words.

Is this team the most talented because of Bill Parcells, or are we winning because of Tony Romo? I'm just trying to find the consistency in regards to the Parcells homerism that is going on.

We are either the most talented team in the league because of Parcells, or we are being saved because of Tony Romo and an explosive offense. But let us ignore T.O. in the context of the explosive offense here for the sake of the argument, even though Parcells has pretty much come out and affirmed indirectly that he didn't want him.

Are you even familiar with the fact that this is the second-youngest team in the NFL? And has one of the youngest starting rosters? Veterans were brought in at positions that couldn't be filled via the draft immediately. Veterans like Vinny are credited by Romo with being a great influence. Please, cease your nonsense ramblings before I burst my sides.

But Vinny wasn't a great influence on Drew Henson and Chad Hutchinson? With a what, 20 year career, you would expect that Vinny could provide great influence to some other great QBs other than Romo. How many teams has Vinny played for, and how many QBs were on the sidelines watching and learning from him... Just because Romo is a nice guy as per every report, doesn't mean that what he says is always true. The great influence of Vinny was probably teaching Romo what not to do when in the game... I'm sure Bledsoe was also an informative experience for Romo in learning how NOT to evade the rush, and how important feet are. Tony is as talented as they come, and that has little to do with Vinny or Bledsoe...

And how many of these young guys did not sniff playing time or used their potential because Wade wasn't here. Hell, Wade makes bad players decent. Wade made Marcellus Wiley a pro-bowler. Last year, per Parcells homers, our free safety Watkins sucked. But now, he's playing pretty decent, is he not, even being used in special packages and making plays. He has become a special teams beast. Now that he is showing the light, he is a Parcells player, even though Parcells benched him, took direct shots at the FS position, and so on. But getting these players has nothing to do with other people within the organization spotting talent...

What historical trend of Parcells coaching career makes you believe that he doesn't intend to win with his veterans and then bolt? He has made it his career of building teams with veteran players not to fill needs that the 'draft' couldn't fill immediately, but to win, and then bolt. Look what happened to the Jets. He doesn't care about teams after he leaves. That is why his name keeps popping up even after he left the Dallas' organization. In fact, I bet JJ wanted him gone, and that is why he left, for his name to pop up so quick. Actually, I hope he does come back, so we can know for sure how good he really is at evaluating talent.

He was absolutely pathetic on the sidelines last year. That is why it took him 4 years to start Romo, and that because of the pathetic play of Bledsoe. Parcells could no longer defend the play of Drew Bledsoe so he had to put in Romo. He did the same thing with Vinny except he kept Vinny in, even after they were out of the play-offs, and it is quite clear last year he had no defense for doing the same with Bledsoe. The lucky thing for Parcells is that Romo shocked him with his play, but thank Sean Payton for that.

Parcells cheers on Keyshawn? When did this happen?

When you have Parcells silent while Keyshawn does his thing, and Parcells doesn't say a word, that to me is cheering him on...

I completely agree.

At least we agree on one thing...

 

[superpunk]

When you have Parcells silent while Keyshawn does his thing, and Parcells doesn't say a word, that to me is cheering him on...

lmao.

 

[JPM]

lmao.

sitting there not saying anything = to cheering on.
Make perfect sense.

 

[khiladi]

sitting there not saying anything = to cheering on.
Make perfect sense.

With a stupid grin on his face, I might add... You would think that Parcells could say that Wade is doing a damn fine job at scheming away the weaknesses that were apparent in our defense last year.... But wait a minute, that would mean that the team isn't all about what Parcells built, but a lot of it has to do with what Wade is doing, and Parcells couldn't do..

Parcells is an "analyst" right...

 

[Dodger12]

......3. Once the dynasty fell apart, and the mess was cleaned, and contracts over, he brought in a HOF coach, who BTW, hasn't won anything without Bellichek

I see, I see...you like to preach JJ's hand in rebuilding this team; it was an equal effort. But your disdain for anything BP is so blinding that you credit Bellicheat for BP's accomplishments. You won't even give him the same benefit of the doubt that you want us to give Jerry. Oh the irony..........

 

[Vintage]

But Vinny wasn't a great influence on Drew Henson and Chad Hutchinson? With a what, 20 year career, you would expect that Vinny could provide great influence to some other great QBs other than Romo. How many teams has Vinny played for, and how many QBs were on the sidelines watching and learning from him... Just because Romo is a nice guy as per every report, doesn't mean that what he says is always true. The great influence of Vinny was probably teaching Romo what not to do when in the game... I'm sure Bledsoe was also an informative experience for Romo in learning how NOT to evade the rush, and how important feet are. Tony is as talented as they come, and that has little to do with Vinny or Bledsoe...

Henson and Hutch lacked the talent Romo had. I doubt a QB coaching staff of Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Roger Staubach could get anything more out of Henson and Hutch. Romo had raw ability. He needed to refine it. Romo attributes a lot to Vinny in his learning process. That should be good enough.

And how many of these young guys did not sniff playing time or used their potential because Wade wasn't here. Hell, Wade makes bad players decent. Wade made Marcellus Wiley a pro-bowler.

And Wiley was clearly washed up when he played in Dallas. Not Parcells fault.

Last year, per Parcells homers, our free safety Watkins sucked. But now, he's playing pretty decent, is he not, even being used in special packages and making plays. He has become a special teams beast. Now that he is showing the light, he is a Parcells player, even though Parcells benched him, took direct shots at the FS position, and so on. But getting these players has nothing to do with other people within the organization spotting talent...

And it couldn't be that Watkins was a ROOKIE last year? He now has experience. But that couldn't be the reason for his improved play, could it?

He was absolutely pathetic on the sidelines last year. That is why it took him 4 years to start Romo, and that because of the pathetic play of Bledsoe. Parcells could no longer defend the play of Drew Bledsoe so he had to put in Romo. He did the same thing with Vinny except he kept Vinny in, even after they were out of the play-offs, and it is quite clear last year he had no defense for doing the same with Bledsoe. The lucky thing for Parcells is that Romo shocked him with his play, but thank Sean Payton for that.

Romo has said all along he wasn't ready to start before last year. But I guess Romo is stupid too. Or is lying. Take your pick, I guess.

And give credit to David Lee. David Lee, according to Romo, was the one who helped change Romo's release (per Parcells thoughts, I might add). And credit goes to Romo for working his *** off and wanting to do it...


______________________

We are 11-1 because of what this coaching staff has done.

But we have the players because of what Parcells did.

Credit can - and should - go to both. But Parcells credit is limited to overhauling the roster. Wade gets the credit for the success our team has enjoyed this year.

THAT is what people are arguing.

 

[khiladi]

I see, I see...you like to preach JJ's hand in rebuilding this team; it was an equal effort. But your disdain for anything BP is so blinding that you credit Bellicheat for BP's accomplishments. You won't even give him the same benefit of the doubt that you want us to give Jerry. Oh the irony..........

I said Bill hasn't won anything without Bill Bellichek... by analogy, this means that

Hell yeah I credit JJ for this team, and even Jeff Ireland because everybody is on Parcell's jock about how HE saved this organization. Even some credit belongs to Parcells, but contrary to the Parcells homers, I'm not riding his jock portraying him as the long-awaited Messiah. The guy was average here. People talk about how he brings class and discipline to organizations and steers them in the right direction as if it was all about Parcells? People on the team were glad he left because of the stifling atmosphere. How is that direction? Did he save the Jets an steer them in the right organization? Has he won anything without Bill Bellichek?

I'm not the one repeating the chant of Dave Campo and Chan Gailey without context of an aging dynasty breathing it's last breadth.

People make it sound as if Parcells is untouchable. If this wasn't the case, than Wade would be in the running for coach of the year. If this wasn't the case, newscasters wouldn't find it necessary to tell us how Parcells' "team", not Wade's team, is finally showing it's talent.

 

[dozin_theknick]

I'm just curious of your source here.

Source for what?

 

[Doomsday101]

I said Bill hasn't won anything without Bill Bellichek... by analogy, this means that

Hell yeah I credit JJ for this team, and even Jeff Ireland because everybody is on Parcell's jock about how HE saved this organization. Even some credit belongs to Parcells, but contrary to the Parcells homers, I'm not riding his jock portraying him as the long-awaited Messiah. The guy was average here. People talk about how he brings class and discipline to organizations and steers them in the right direction as if it was all about Parcells? People on the team were glad he left because of the stifling atmosphere. How is that direction? Did he save the Jets an steer them in the right organization? Has he won anything without Bill Bellichek?

I'm not the one repeating the chant of Dave Campo and Chan Gailey without context of an aging dynasty breathing it's last breadth.

People make it sound as if Parcells is untouchable. If this wasn't the case, than Wade would be in the running for coach of the year. If this wasn't the case, newscasters wouldn't find it necessary to tell us how Parcells' "team", not Wade's team, is finally showing it's talent.

I will give you that. None of this happens without Jerry Jones. Any changes that were made within the organization including the scouting department are directly credited to Jerry Jones. Bring in BP and then Wade and Garrett once again Jerry Jones. Face it some in the media question Jones with the hiring of Wade and a very inexperienced Garrett. During bad times Jerry Jones took the heat for everything now that this team has made the turn around I would hope that people are willing to give Jerry the credit he is due.