High-end of remaining DT market expected to go to Javon Hargrave in $20-22 million neighborhood

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CowboyoWales

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He's probably the best DT behind Donald ( check his stats). He has been way more consistent than Payne. Around $20M is his value according to Spotrac
What I think this signifies is that the Eagles are going for it in 2023, with a possible 'break up' the band in 2024 as they build around the three 1st and three 2nd second round picks (2023-2024 drafts). They can also free up money by restructuring Slay (basic $17m) and Johnson ($14m).
 

CowboyoWales

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Yeah has worked so well for us in the past, patch working the DT position.
Not saying it's the way to go....however, you need to make your decisions. At least we've (and I think Jerry's) got respect for Quinn's wants/need's/scheme's.
 

Cowboyny

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Eagles suck but basically it’s like they bought their rookies another year to succeed. Jordan Davis was a top pick and has a higher ceiling than Hargrave. The way people talk about him he should come right in and play now.
Hargrave offered pass rush abilities, something Davis offers very little in that department.
 

jterrell

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What I think this signifies is that the Eagles are going for it in 2023, with a possible 'break up' the band in 2024 as they build around the three 1st and three 2nd second round picks (2023-2024 drafts). They can also free up money by restructuring Slay (basic $17m) and Johnson ($14m).
The Eagles are shopping Slay and haven't done anything with Hargrave who likely signs elsewhere.
They went for it in 2022.
They'll at best re-shuffle but they are 100% losing talent off that roster for 2023.
 

Hawkeye0202

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Eagles are going to lose a lot of players and their roster will come back to earth this yr. Doesn't mean they still cannot be successful, but a lot more has to go right.
Exactly.......will still be one of the more talented teams ( top 5 ) in the league and losing both coordinators won't help.
 

CowboyoWales

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The Eagles are shopping Slay and haven't done anything with Hargrave who likely signs elsewhere.
They went for it in 2022.
They'll at best re-shuffle but they are 100% losing talent off that roster for 2023.
I thought it was Slay wanting a trade....Eagles can restructure into void years. What the Eagles lose on talent (which may not be severe depending on decisions from Kelce's and restructures) can be recouped in their 2 1st Rd picks.
They have the opportunity to ALL-IN or retook this year...they have a antithesis of CAP management than we do.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Hargrave offered pass rush abilities, something Davis offers very little in that department.
Yeah but they led the league in sacks last year and sucked at stopping the run. I can’t clarify enough that I think they suck and will take a step back this year but if Davis helps out with the run that should be a plus for that line. They have the rushers.
 

Sydla

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Draft a good teachable DT, and call it a day. Why spend that kind of money when you have a draft coming up?
Because we continue to prove over and over and over and over and over that you can't just build a champ caliber team through the draft solely.

PS - Unless I am missing sarcasm in your post.
 

jterrell

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I thought it was Slay wanting a trade....Eagles can restructure into void years. What the Eagles lose on talent (which may not be severe depending on decisions from Kelce's and restructures) can be recouped in their 2 1st Rd picks.
They have the opportunity to ALL-IN or retook this year...they have a antithesis of CAP management than we do.
No, Eagles want Slay to accept a restructure but he has zero incentive to do so unless they extend him with more GTD money.
He is a top 5 CB and wants top 5 CB pay for a few more seasons.

NFL teams can not extend or do any contracts alteration without a player's cooperation.
And on the last year of a deal you seldom get that for free.

He is already leveraged to hilt with 3 void years.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/darius-slay-12317/

Eagles have real world issues to deal with as they had double digit top 30 players on their roster hit free agency.
Of those about 4-5 are top of their positions salaries they need to deal with or let walk.

Dallas would have early re-signed those guys but the Eagles went all in using their future money to add talent to the roster for last year.

Most NFL team have void years for a handful of salaries at most. Philly is doing it for everyone, and it is nuts.
Especially because they won't be able to do it with Hurts.

As half this board was fawning over their cap mgmt I was like what are those nuts doing.
 

Sydla

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Hargrave offered pass rush abilities, something Davis offers very little in that department.
Also missing the point when someone says I'd rather have Hankins at a lower price. Hargrave and Hankins are two totally different kind of DTs. Hankins is largely a 2 down type DT (and I like Hankins and hope he's back). Hargrave is a 3 down wrecking ball inside.

Now having said that, as much as I want to upgrade DT, Hargrave at that level of contract he's likely to get is a tough one to swallow.
 

jazzcat22

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Except that the correct pick was Hargrave over Malik Collins. And yes, I was screaming for him at the time. Would've changed a ton about our team.
And that is why Marinelli needed to be gone. He like Garrett missed on many players, on both sides of the ball. more so on defense though.
 

John813

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Tyreek's deal was originally a 30mil AAV deal but the last year was inflated to a 43.90mil base salary to bump the AAV. He's not playing that year with that salart.
So, hitting a 22mil aav even for Hargrave may have some funny money at the end he'll never see only to inflate the average.
It's all about the guarantees. Once that runs out then the player has nothing yet to show the team he's worth his base salary if his production drops. Owners don't pay anything for dead cap when it's just prorated signing bonus accelerating.
 

Sydla

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I thought it was Slay wanting a trade....Eagles can restructure into void years. What the Eagles lose on talent (which may not be severe depending on decisions from Kelce's and restructures) can be recouped in their 2 1st Rd picks.
They have the opportunity to ALL-IN or retook this year...they have a antithesis of CAP management than we do.
They are already have some tough to swallow void years on Slay. I think what they are trying to do is let Slay set the market for himself in terms of contracts. Any team wanting to trade for him is likely going to talk extension, so Philly will have an idea what he's really worth. They can either then extend him at that rate or send him packing.
 

CowboyoWales

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No, Eagles want Slay to accept a restructure but he has zero incentive to do so unless they extend him with more GTD money.
He is a top 5 CB and wants top 5 CB pay for a few more seasons.

NFL teams can not extend or do any contracts alteration without a player's cooperation.
And on the last year of a deal you seldom get that for free.

He is already leveraged to hilt with 3 void years.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/darius-slay-12317/

Eagles have real world issues to deal with as they had double digit top 30 players on their roster hit free agency.
Of those about 4-5 are top of their positions salaries they need to deal with or let walk.

Dallas would have early re-signed those guys but the Eagles went all in using their future money to add talent to the roster for last year.

Most NFL team have void years for a handful of salaries at most. Philly is doing it for everyone, and it is nuts.
Especially because they won't be able to do it with Hurts.

As half this board was fawning over their cap mgmt I was like what are those nuts doing.
That's what I thought, the Eagles want Slay to stay and restructure him into 2024 (which is going to be CAP HELL for the Eagles).
Yep, these are the considerations when going All-In (it doesn't guarantee a ring and once you start you have to see it through as you'll suffer when you stop).
 

Sydla

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That's what I thought, the Eagles want Slay to stay and restructure him into 2024 (which is going to be CAP HELL for the Eagles).
Yep, these are the considerations when going All-In (it doesn't guarantee a ring and once you start you have to see it through as you'll suffer when you stop).
Slay doesn't have to accept a restructure. The Eagles can just opt to do it. All a restructure would do is pay Slay more money now upfront from his base of $17 million instead of weekly paychecks when season starts.

The issue is that the Eagles already have a bunch of dummy years on his deal beyond this year, so any restructure would make those void years even worse.
 

Sydla

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No, Eagles want Slay to accept a restructure but he has zero incentive to do so unless they extend him with more GTD money.
He is a top 5 CB and wants top 5 CB pay for a few more seasons.

NFL teams can not extend or do any contracts alteration without a player's cooperation.
And on the last year of a deal you seldom get that for free.

He is already leveraged to hilt with 3 void years.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/darius-slay-12317/

Eagles have real world issues to deal with as they had double digit top 30 players on their roster hit free agency.
Of those about 4-5 are top of their positions salaries they need to deal with or let walk.

Dallas would have early re-signed those guys but the Eagles went all in using their future money to add talent to the roster for last year.

Most NFL team have void years for a handful of salaries at most. Philly is doing it for everyone, and it is nuts.
Especially because they won't be able to do it with Hurts.

As half this board was fawning over their cap mgmt I was like what are those nuts doing.
Depends, the Eagles don't need Slay's permission to simply restructure a deal. A simple restructure is just a cap accounting trick. In that sense a restructure still means Slay gets his $17 million owed this year just the timing of the payment is different.

There are two types of restructuring:

  • A simple restructure converts payments into prorated signing bonuses within the confines of the remainder of the contract. Teams typically have the ability to unilaterally execute simple restructures without any action necessary from the player.
  • A maximum restructure increases the amount of cap space via conversion into prorated signing bonuses by either extending the contract or by adding void years to a contract, years that do not extend the contract but are only used as placeholders for the proration. Maximum restructures are typically considered a renegotiation of the contract that requires the player's consent to execute.
For all intents and purposes, when you see "restructure" reported in the news, it's a simple restructure. A maximum restructure if often just called an extension. The Eagles likely won't do a basic restructure because the void years are already high. And I suspect them letting him look for a trade partner is, in part, a way to see what the market might dictate in terms of an extension. Teams looking to acquire him are likely going to want to sign him to an extension.
 
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