Hill: Monte Kiffen won't force cover 2 scheme...interviewed w/JG and JG today

[Plankton]

Not surprised you can name some. Now, without them looking it up would you put money on the vast majority of posters here being able to do the same thing? Or do you agree with me that most of them couldn't do that without looking it up?

I will withhold comment.

That being said, I would want to upgrade the safety talent if they went to a cover two shell. I would like to see more range on the back end, especially to protect against the post corner routes that the cover two is susceptible to.

 

[Plankton]

Do you guys use the same closed minded prototype restrictions on the 3-4? Because neither Lee or Carter are "prototype" 3-4 ILBs. Von Miller and Elvis Dumervil aren't "prototype" 4-3 DEs if you're still stuck in 1985 size prototypes. Yet they still performed very well in the system. Amazing how good players do that.

You do realize that Coleman and Spears are gone this offseason, regardless of which system we run. Who are the "prototype" guys on hand to replace them as 3-4 DEs? Is Sean Lissemore a "prototype" 3-4 DL for you?

One thing though - Miller doesn't play DE down to down. He's a SLB, who moves to a down position in the nickel.

 

[Hostile]

Hostile, if we are going to primarily cover 2 why did we spend $50mm plus a first and second round picks on press man corners?

Why would we go to a defense that the commissioner is going to fine and penalize out of existence?

If we are bringing in Kiffen to not run cover 2, why on earth are we bringing in Monte Kiffen?

Do you really think this was 45 year old Jason Garret's idea to hire a 70 year old Monte Kiffen?

This reeks of a Jer, Lace and Switz idea. Kiffen is a great, great coach. He and Lace could sit around drinking bourbon talking football and defense and I'd pay a $1,000 for a glass and some ice. But this does not fit what we have been drafting or coaching our team to do.

I do. They met while Garrett was at Tampa, and Garrett ran the Scout team stuff. I am sure the respect level is very high.

Let me clue you in on something about old dogs like Kiffin, Jim Johnson, and LeBeau. Give them talent and they will make someone pay with it. They are not going to sit there unaware of how to use press CBs.

 

[Hostile]

I will withhold comment.

That being said, I would want to upgrade the safety talent if they went to a cover two shell. I would like to see more range on the back end, especially to protect against the post corner routes that the cover two is susceptible to.

I would want to upgrade talent regardless of system.

 

[IrishAnto]

I do. They met while Garrett was at Tampa, and Garrett ran the Scout team stuff. I am sure the respect level is very high.

Let me clue you in on something about old dogs like Kiffin, Jim Johnson, and LeBeau. Give them talent and they will make someone pay with it. They are not going to sit there unaware of how to use press CBs.

Unaware or not it looks like we've spent a lot on two players that don't look like good fits for the new scheme.

Time will tell but I can see in a couple of years a clamour for a 1st pick to be spent on a corner because Carr/Claiborne can't cut it.

And the cycle will start all over again.

 

[bayeslife]

You mean like what happened when Wade went to the Texans in his first season?



Gotcha.

To be fair they also got Watt, Reed, and Joseph in the same off-season.

But if we can make a couple key additions like that I can see the defense having similar success.

 

[Hostile]

Unaware or not it looks like we've spent a lot on two players that don't look like good fits for the new scheme.

Time will tell but I can see in a couple of years a clamour for a 1st pick to be spent on a corner because Carr/Claiborne can't cut it.

And the cycle will start all over again.

So you are saying Carr and Claiborne cannot play for Kiffin? Or that he couldn't figure out how to use them?

I will never really grasp fans sometimes. Talent can play. Talent can coach. Carr and Claiborne have talent. Kiffin has talent.

Are you willing to go on record with a prediction they can't play in his system and he can't coach their talent?

This is not the guy I wanted. He's not even my 2nd or 3rd choice. Then again I didn't want Ryan at all. But I'm not going to pretend he can't coach in the NFL and that talented players can't play. Systems are not that specialized that smart players with talent can't work.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Monte Kiffen will play with the cards he's dealt. Rob Ryan was about Rob Ryan in that his scheme was about his genius and not the strengths and weaknesses of the player.

Hopefully, Kiffin will dictate to the offense, the offense dictated to Ryan. I really expected more from Ryan but any scheme where an offense can neutralize your best pass rusher by formation dictating he'll drop into coverage isn't going to find success. At time it seems like the defense showed up to the chess match with a handful of checkers.

 

[wileedog]

Unaware or not it looks like we've spent a lot on two players that don't look like good fits for the new scheme.

Time will tell but I can see in a couple of years a clamour for a 1st pick to be spent on a corner because Carr/Claiborne can't cut it.

And the cycle will start all over again.

I don't think that is a problem at all. If anything there is a disconnect in spending $50M and our two top draft picks on CBs and then switching to a Cover 2 guy at DC, where you could have gotten away with much less. But I don't think you'll ever have a problem with them not being able to play in the system, especially if Kiffin plays press like Seattle.

The CB issue to me is this all feels like a reaction, not a plan.

 

[Bowdown27]

I'm really curious to see who kiffin brings in with him that will probably take over once he retires.

 

[bounce]

So you are saying Carr and Claiborne cannot play for Kiffin? Or that he couldn't figure out how to use them?

I will never really grasp fans sometimes. Talent can play. Talent can coach. Carr and Claiborne have talent. Kiffin has talent.

Are you willing to go on record with a prediction they can't play in his system and he can't coach their talent?

This is not the guy I wanted. He's not even my 2nd or 3rd choice. Then again I didn't want Ryan at all. But I'm not going to pretend he can't coach in the NFL and that talented players can't play. Systems are not that specialized that smart players with talent can't work.

That's what is always ridiculous to me. People pigeonhole players into certain schemes and think they're totally unable to play anything else. They've played press-man because they've been asked to play press-man. It doesn't mean it's because it's ALL they can play.

These guys are all-world athletes in the highest level of competition for a reason. Not because they're totally one-dimensional.

 

[DBOY3141]

I'm really curious to see who kiffin brings in with him that will probably take over once he retires.

I would say Rod Marinelli, current DC of the Bears. Long time DL coach for Kiffin. I also heard he wants to bring in Raheem Morris, current CB coach with Washington.

 

[IrishAnto]

So you are saying Carr and Claiborne cannot play for Kiffin? Or that he couldn't figure out how to use them?

I will never really grasp fans sometimes. Talent can play. Talent can coach. Carr and Claiborne have talent. Kiffin has talent.

Are you willing to go on record with a prediction they can't play in his system and he can't coach their talent?

This is not the guy I wanted. He's not even my 2nd or 3rd choice. Then again I didn't want Ryan at all. But I'm not going to pretend he can't coach in the NFL and that talented players can't play. Systems are not that specialized that smart players with talent can't work.

No I'm not saying that they can't play for Kiffin, however they were both brought to Dallas because of their press/man coverage abilities.

Considering the Cowboys defense didn’t look all that great when they were playing zone this year it strikes me that maybe they won’t be playing to their strengths in Kiffin’s scheme.

And if we’re not playing Kiffin’s Tampa 2 scheme they why can’t we go for an up and coming DC that might last a few years with us as opposed to somebody older than Jerry?

 

[cowboysooner]

So you are saying Carr and Claiborne cannot play for Kiffin? Or that he couldn't figure out how to use them?

I will never really grasp fans sometimes. Talent can play. Talent can coach. Carr and Claiborne have talent. Kiffin has talent.

Are you willing to go on record with a prediction they can't play in his system and he can't coach their talent?

This is not the guy I wanted. He's not even my 2nd or 3rd choice. Then again I didn't want Ryan at all. But I'm not going to pretend he can't coach in the NFL and that talented players can't play. Systems are not that specialized that smart players with talent can't work.

Of course he'll use them. They have been paid, performed and scouted as blue chip prospects and players.

The point is pretty obvious. If this was the direction we were going there is no way on Earth we have the offseason from a year ago. And last year's offseason was so big that it counts for most of this year's offseason too. Tampa 2 teams don't spend big money and big draft picks (top 10) on corners. Tampa spent #7 on a safety. The only other 1st round pick at safety last year was Harrison Smith for the Vikings. That is not an accident.

Tampa 2 teams draft defensive ends and 3 techniques that kill quarterbacks.

Great organizations, even decent ones, have one year's plan relate to the next year's plan and team because we don't get to start over every year and repick all the players.

Brockers and Wagner sounds alot better than Claiborne right now if this is our direction.

 

[Hostile]

I'm really curious to see who kiffin brings in with him that will probably take over once he retires.

Lovie?

ray:






I think he deserves a HC job, but I haven't lost hope until he has no job.

 

[Hostile]

That's what is always ridiculous to me. People pigeonhole players into certain schemes and think they're totally unable to play anything else. They've played press-man because they've been asked to play press-man. It doesn't mean it's because it's ALL they can play.

These guys are all-world athletes in the highest level of competition for a reason. Not because they're totally one-dimensional.

Right and they are smart.

I guarantee you this, if Kiffin were headed to the Eagles as their DC I would not be dismissing how good he could make that Defense.

I said he was not in my top 3. I doubt he'd have been in my top 5 choices to be quite truthful. But I'm not going to let that make me over react and say this guy can't coach and smart, talented players can't play for him.

That's silly.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

I do. They met while Garrett was at Tampa, and Garrett ran the Scout team stuff. I am sure the respect level is very high.

Let me clue you in on something about old dogs like Kiffin, Jim Johnson, and LeBeau. Give them talent and they will make someone pay with it. They are not going to sit there unaware of how to use press CBs.

You better tell these young whipper snappers. :laugh2:

But seriously our linebacking corps has me salivating in anticipation to what Kiffin will do with them. We still need to upgrade at the d-line but I like the direction the team is going. They are starting to build around Lee/Carter instead of the OLB which is what is most important at 3-4. Hence the change in defensive philosophy. This isn't a swipe at Ware but the reality is he is about to decline in play so it was time to shift who to build around and what our strengths are and that's at MLB. Spencer could walk due to his salary commands. It was time to change.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Do people actually doubt Ware can play DE?

yes. he is a great player, but has played standing up, away from the tackle all his career. now he needs to put his hands down and get into the tackle a lot and won't have the room as much. its quite different.

he may lose some of his effectiveness.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

I don't think that is a problem at all. If anything there is a disconnect in spending $50M and our two top draft picks on CBs and then switching to a Cover 2 guy at DC, where you could have gotten away with much less. But I don't think you'll ever have a problem with them not being able to play in the system, especially if Kiffin plays press like Seattle.

The CB issue to me is this all feels like a reaction, not a plan.

If you look at most of the dominant Cover-2 defenses, you'll find that they either found gems in someone like Barber, invested high draft picks like Talib or constantly used early picks like the Bears seemingly using a 2nd/3rd on a DB every year.

If Claiborne, Carr and Scandrick can become playmakers, creating turnovers, the investment in them will be worth every penny.

 

[Hostile]

No I'm not saying that they can't play for Kiffin, however they were both brought to Dallas because of their press/man coverage abilities.

Considering the Cowboys defense didn’t look all that great when they were playing zone this year it strikes me that maybe they won’t be playing to their strengths in Kiffin’s scheme.

And if we’re not playing Kiffin’s Tampa 2 scheme they why can’t we go for an up and coming DC that might last a few years with us as opposed to somebody older than Jerry?

Rhonde Barber was a physical CB for Kiffin. I am pretty sure he can have CBs jam at the LOS and play in his schemes. Just as I am pretty sure that a man who invented the most successful Zone can teach smart guys how to play in it.

It's a 2 edged sword. By your logic the Eagles shouldn't try to hire Dick LeBeau if he were available because of who they drafted last year. I just don't see it that way.

Talent can always find a way to succeed.