Hip Hop Music Thread

[BigStar]

I mean yea there's a lot of stuff I do like from that era. But the whole Public Enemy, NWA, Ice Cube, etc. scene never appealed to me.

I would say that was the breeding ground for gangster rap (thought PE definitely was a more govt-socio-political centered message), set rap, etc. But it was the introduction to a new form of music that encompassed the frustration contained within a growing number in society. This cultural shift in rebellion was also displayed in rock sub genres like punk-grunge and skinhead extreme grunge influenced music expressing similar frustration but for much different political/cultural reasons and ideology. These controversial but essential music genres cemented free speech in regards to musical expression for the futures. Unfortunately this produced the Metallicas and Kanye West's of the world too

One major distinctive differences between the genres (early 90s compared to 96 to 2004ish, is the reliance on r&b and pop influenced refrains instead of the standard rap hooks with any substance (Kanye is definitely one of the most guilty most recently but none of the others are too fare behind). I would say that they transformed a lot of rap into being made "dance-able" in clubs, "fun times", mainstream, etc.. which lead to the cheesy/repititive simple hooks that usually involve singing of some kind of refrain with a strong poppy influence that involves singing of some kind. I know that's more of a personal preference/pet peeve of mine but is definitely a distinction I noticed that has evolved over the last 2-3 generations. I'm definitely an early mid 90's fan so didn't mean to mean to give out a "Get off my Lawn!" vibe of condescension but wanted to give my two cents.

 

[Future]

But there is even more than that... Casual from out west, Rakim, & Diamond D from the east, Crucial Conflict from the midwest, Outkast from the south, digable planets from everywhere... Even out in Europe they had a popping scene which had artist like Allience Ethnik, & MC Solaar... There was more freedom. If your willing to look, you will find some appealing artist..... hope you do, if not, I still wish you the best sonically.

You're glossing over the "lot of stuff I do like" part lol.

But I think the "gangster" rap or whatever that I mentioned is what defined that period of late 80s-early 90s, especially to someone my age who gets all of that stuff retroactively, and I'm just not a huge fan of it all.

 

[Future]

I would say that was the breeding ground for gangster rap, set rap, but mainly a cultural shift in how frustration was expressed through music as with alternative and punk/sub genres of the rock category. Scared mainstream America to to the point of the Govt felt the need to comment/regulate to an extent by mass media campaigns to stigmatize the genre. Current hip hop doesn't speak to the cultural frustration (anger) to the same degree and most if not all of the political message is being lost (for the most part) if their is any type of angle at all.

One major distinctive differences between the genres (early 90 compared to 96 to 2000, is the reliance on r&b and pop influenced refrains instead a rap hooks with any substance (Kanye is definitely one of the most guilty). I would say that they transformed a lot of rap into being made "dance-able" which lead to the cheesy simple hooks that usually involve singing of some kind to mix the pop genre into the song. I know that's more of a personal preference/pet peeve of mine but is definitely a distinction I noticed that has evolved over the last 2-3 generations. I'm definitely an early mid 90's fan so didn't mean to mean to give out a "Get off my Lawn!" vibe of condescension but wanted to give my two cents.

yea, that's fair, though I don't think that first paragraph is distinctive to rap. I think music in general has been I guess watered down in that regard. There aren't many artists out there really speaking out about much, regardless of genre.

Agreed that there was a shift, and I tend to enjoy the latter half more, I guess. I think a lot of that probably stems from the fact that radio stations started playing it...and probably goes hand in hand with the first part that you mentioned. I think that evolution was a good thing. But, there were definitely plenty of catchy hooks before the mid 90s. I mean, "The Message" had about as catchy a hook as there is, even if it wasn't sung, per se.

 

[BigStar]

yea, that's fair, though I don't think that first paragraph is distinctive to rap. I think music in general has been I guess watered down in that regard. There aren't many artists out there really speaking out about much, regardless of genre.

Agreed that there was a shift, and I tend to enjoy the latter half more, I guess. I think a lot of that probably stems from the fact that radio stations started playing it...and probably goes hand in hand with the first part that you mentioned. I think that evolution was a good thing. But, there were definitely plenty of catchy hooks before the mid 90s. I mean, "The Message" had about as catchy a hook as there is, even if it wasn't sung, per se.

Yeah I agree the cheesy/catchy ("Look at dem grls with dem Daizy Dukes ON! I want you to...", "Whoomp there it is!" refrain most definitely existed long before the "cooler" hooks became a more involved part of it, "5 O clock in the morning....where ya gonna be....OUTSIDE on the Corn--Ah!" stuck in my head for about a year after that dropped. I guess I didn't think of some of the more tackier ones tbh when typing initial message above. To each your own though if that's your preference (singing refrains).
I guess my point more so is that I personally prefer the refrain to be rapped over singing (takes away the edge and gives it a pop vibe in my opinion) with some type of meaning (ex: Lost Boys: "Renee", "Somebody's Got Die" Bigge, "Shook Ones- Mobb Deep""Thug Luv" Bone and 2pac", "Me and My Girlfriend" 2 Pac talking about his gun as a metaphor for his ""down" woman. These are just a couple off the top of my head, but there are plenty of examples of songs I like with singing refrains too but that is just a personal preference of mine to not be included; have plenty of friends who would agree with you on liking the evolution of the singing element and disagree with me there (too old school - darker themes). After saying all that, I also just realized one my favorite groups growing up (36) rarely had good refrains outside of a few exceptions so punches some holes in my theory of preference.

 

[BigStar]

UG Icon Scarface (HOU)

 

[BigStar]

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

You're glossing over the "lot of stuff I do like" part lol.

But I think the "gangster" rap or whatever that I mentioned is what defined that period of late 80s-early 90s, especially to someone my age who gets all of that stuff retroactively, and I'm just not a huge fan of it all.

Gangaster rap didn't define that era..... it depends on where you were from.... hip hop was very regional at that point.....

De la Soul, A tribe called quest....... those groups were popular during that time, but defined a different region, and a different mind set.... thats why i mentioned the 80's & 90's were more free......So if your looking for something, its there.... you can't pigeon hole an era based on the groups you were exposed to.... It was very big and open.... Explore my friend....

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

I would say that was the breeding ground for gangster rap (thought PE definitely was a more govt-socio-political centered message), set rap, etc. But it was the introduction to a new form of music that encompassed the frustration contained within a growing number in society. This cultural shift in rebellion was also displayed in rock sub genres like punk-grunge and skinhead extreme grunge influenced music expressing similar frustration but for much different political/cultural reasons and ideology. These controversial but essential music genres cemented free speech in regards to musical expression for the futures. Unfortunately this produced the Metallicas and Kanye West's of the world too

One major distinctive differences between the genres (early 90s compared to 96 to 2004ish, is the reliance on r&b and pop influenced refrains instead of the standard rap hooks with any substance (Kanye is definitely one of the most guilty most recently but none of the others are too fare behind). I would say that they transformed a lot of rap into being made "dance-able" in clubs, "fun times", mainstream, etc.. which lead to the cheesy/repititive simple hooks that usually involve singing of some kind of refrain with a strong poppy influence that involves singing of some kind. I know that's more of a personal preference/pet peeve of mine but is definitely a distinction I noticed that has evolved over the last 2-3 generations. I'm definitely an early mid 90's fan so didn't mean to mean to give out a "Get off my Lawn!" vibe of condescension but wanted to give my two cents.

Interesting subject...
The change imo can be traced to mid-late 80's mixed tapes, where you would have Sade vs Hip Hip fusion... etc..... I remember those mixed tapes well... honestly it naturally became a curiosity of two genres....

this dropped:

Jody Watley & Rakim
Friends

A big crossover hit.... It was kind of an unusual fusion....

Teddy Riley locked in as well
Fantasy


You had softer pop versions drop afterwards like:

Straight up (this was a light fusion... crossover...Paula crafted her own sing/rap, with a very popular street slang...funny, we kinda stopped using it for a bit after this song...hahaha.....)


Paula Abdul (featuring MC Scat Kat.....lol....hahaha)
Opposites Attract


People of All races & ages were now exposed to hip hop, good or bad, it was a money maker.... ("Just a Friend", Biz Markie, PE, were monster hits, meanwhile Red Hot Chili Peppers embraced the fusion world as well)

You kind of knew it was here to stay when this young woman took the word by storm, and they tagged her with the moniker... "Queen of Hip Hop Soul".....
Mary J Blige
Real Love


at one point hip hop was influenced by R&B, using the samples as a base..... than the reverse happened... R&B was influenced by hip hop, and started using its young audience, loops, and steady drum patterns......


Off topic.... Kanye is a good wordsmith, who stays on topic in the most creative ways.... I'll give him props on that.... the dude is nice...

 

[BigStar]

Interesting subject...
The change imo can be traced to mid-late 80's mixed tapes, where you would have Sade vs Hip Hip fusion... etc..... I remember those mixed tapes well... honestly it naturally became a curiosity of two genres....

this dropped:

Jody Watley & Rakim
Friends

A big crossover hit.... It was kind of an unusual fusion....

Teddy Riley locked in as well
Fantasy


You had softer pop versions drop afterwards like:

Straight up (this was a light fusion... crossover...Paula crafted her own sing/rap, with a very popular street slang...funny, we kinda stopped using it for a bit after this song...hahaha.....)


Paula Abdul (featuring MC Scat Kat.....lol....hahaha)
Opposites Attract


People of All races & ages were now exposed to hip hop, good or bad, it was a money maker.... ("Just a Friend", Biz Markie, PE, were monster hits, meanwhile Red Hot Chili Peppers embraced the fusion world as well)

You kind of knew it was here to stay when this young woman took the word by storm, and they tagged her with the moniker... "Queen of Hip Hop Soul".....
Mary J Blige
Real Love


at one point hip hop was influenced by R&B, using the samples as a base..... than the reverse happened... R&B was influenced by hip hop, and started using its young audience, loops, and steady drum patterns......


Off topic.... Kanye is a good wordsmith, who stays on topic in the most creative ways.... I'll give him props on that.... the dude is nice...

Usually agree with ya mane, but just can't do it here with Kanye He's everything wrong with rap to me in terms of the diva Micahel Jackson fem stuff he's into to. His head is about to explode Not hating on his lifestyle though (he worked the system), Kim K is nice evidence that his way worked out just fine.

I definitely see ur point though regarding rap initially taking R&B elements as evidenced with the links above and thanks for the lesson!

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Usually agree with ya mane, but just can't do it here with Kanye He's everything wrong with rap to me in terms of the diva Micahel Jackson fem stuff he's into to. His head is about to explode Not hating on his lifestyle though, Kim K is nice evidence that his way worked in many other ways

the funny thing is, I agree with what you say... I just separate his ability as a wordsmith..... his ability to manipulate words, and string together concepts is better than most.....
But yes, he is a problem as well...

PS... that dude also has a real problem with defining classism based on his status in society...

 

[BigStar]

the funny thing is, I agree with what you say... I just separate his ability as a wordsmith..... his ability to manipulate words, and string together concepts is better than most.....
But yes, he is a problem as well...

Late edited last post to also acknowledge you had a good point in correcting my false assumptions about r/b influencing rap initially and then becoming intertwined over even flop flopped after a certain point in the evolution of the genres. I guess after my 90's (hipster) heyday with UG almost excl. it took some time to adjust listening to listening to r/b in the refrains again, etc. Some of it is pretty good though won't act like I'm above it.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Late edited last post to also acknowledge you had a good point in correcting my false assumptions about r/b influencing rap initially and then becoming intertwined over even flop flopped after a certain point in the evolution of the genres.

Rap has undergone such a crazy transformation. Hip Hop has been infiltrated by so much.... Its crazy to see the change from when I & Hip Hop were born (around the same time).... I never knew a genre that I listened to so much as a kid & young adult, would be one I don't listen to very much in my late 30's)

Props to Joey Bada$$, SchoolBoy Q, Freddie Gibbs, Capital Steez (RIP), & Kendrick Lamar.....
keeps me listening to some of the new hip hop cats....

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

UG Icon Scarface (HOU)

this guy has been & will be consistently good...

 

[BigStar]

the funny thing is, I agree with what you say... I just separate his ability as a wordsmith..... his ability to manipulate words, and string together concepts is better than most.....
But yes, he is a problem as well...
PS... that dude also has a real problem with defining classism based on his status in society...

You just described Eminem's flow to me personally to a T. Kanye really is on that borderline level of grandeur. If he wasn't as talented he is he would be considered loony toons/like that Virign Atlantic owner who base jumps and all that crazy skit.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

You just described Eminem's flow for me personally to a T. Tends to happen to people driven home the 7% nonsense; who am I kidding he probably has no idea what that is unless it relates to a new silk men's blouse (Kanye)

It describes most of the best to a T (there would be no early em without the outsiderz, & Master Ace, although his flow evolved)..... Kanye has multiple topics he raps about.... I'm not a fan of his media persona, nor would I be an advocate for him to children.... but I've listened to enough artist to know the cat got flow... and its usually not about his blouses.... (although he doesn't mention his sneakers often..lol)

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Darn, you made me do something I didn't expect to do.... Post Kanye!!!

Drive Slow

 

[BigStar]

It describes most of the best to a T (there would be no early em without the outsiderz, & Master Ace, although his flow evolved)..... Kanye has multiple topics he raps about.... I'm not a fan of his media persona, nor would I be an advocate for him to children.... but I've listened to enough artist to know the cat got flow... and its usually not about his blouses.... (although he doesn't mention his sneakers often..lol)

Yeah I'll lay off Kanye on the "blouses" It was just more shocking at the time how passionate he was about it (but that shows my maturity level a bit there) I will have to keep him another chance as your recommendations and postings have hit @ a pretty high range for me. I guess the persona just grated me away but wouldn't hurt me to hear some more modern stuff tbh. I''' follow up after giving him a legit chance.

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Diamonds Are Forever

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Yeah I'll lay off Kanye on the "blouses" It was just more shocking at the time how passionate he was about it (but that shows my maturity level a bit there) I will have to keep him another chance as your recommendations and postings have hit @ a pretty high range for me. I guess the persona just grated me away but wouldn't hurt me to hear some more modern stuff tbh. I''' follow up after giving him a legit chance.

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

 

[RonSpringsdaman20]

Jesus Walks