Holding call stats confirmed

[Kaiser]

his matches the primary complaint that there are minimal penalties called against the Cowboys opponents. It's much easier to not call a penalty than to call the Cowboys for something that is not really a penalty.

Is there a way to research if a team's opponents have gone this long with a holding penalty being called against them? TIA.

 

[xwalker]

Is there a way to research if a team's opponents have gone this long with a holding penalty being called against them? TIA.

@percyhoward would know.

 

[percyhoward]

@percyhoward would know.

Nope, no idea. Although it could certainly be researched at profootballreference.com.

I can tell you the average team's opponents would have had 12 holding penalties (see sig) during this stretch of games where there hasn't been one. A good pass-rushing team like the Cowboys would undoubtedly expect even more.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

If you search my posts I've told posters for years that the calls even out and they aren't throwing flags to beat the Cowboys. On the Dez Bryant call against GB I posted that it didn't matter because Rodgers would have brought them back to win the game anyway.

But now there is a long, clear pattern of the calls influencing the game against the Cowboys. That isn't a spaggetti monster, that is seeing my hand in front of my face.

No, it’s simply identifying an anomoly (no-holding calls in x amount of games) in the data. That part is legit.

Unfortunately, what folks eagerly want to do is take that information and make the leap and say it’s a full blown conspiracy all while not providing a shred of verifiable evidence related to the mechanisms and shot-callers behind it.

Anyone can point to statistical anomalies...the Eagles were penalized 10 times for 126 yards compared to the Falcons who were penalized just one time for 1 yard in a game earlier this season; a historic disparity in penalty yards.

Conspiracy?

Has anyone determined whether this current no-holding streak for the Cowboys is the longest in NFL history? If not, was there a conspiracy against the team that does hold the record?

 

[DogFace]

It’s not my responsibility to explain why there’s not a spaghetti monster on your roof.

You think pointing to the fact you ate pasta three out of the last seven days is evidence enough.

Conspiracy theorists love to make connections but never can actually identify the dots.

You’d be corrected in a high school and laughed out of a college classroom for presenting such limited data and then forwarding such dim-witted theories based off it.

How predictable. Deflection and lame attempts at attacks.

Spaghetti monster? Who talks like that?

You’d have to be dim-witted to conflate accusations of “bias” and “extreme inconsistency” with forming a theory about a conspiracy. I simply am stating facts and asking for input and comparisons to show these calls are ordinary.

You’ll offer nothing except what you think are clever attacks. Those that have conditioned you to believe you’re witty are at fault and they may actually be involved in a conspiracy.

 

[Pants]

Is there a way to research if a team's opponents have gone this long with a holding penalty being called against them? TIA.

It can be done if you get the data set; for my comparison, I went in, one team at a time, and pulled all of the penalties for the season to this point, so it was easy to pull any team to see their stats for penalties...I have all of the teams info thru the Tday games, but would need to do something to show a grid (for example) of how they all fell...

 

[lostar2009]

I honestly think that's why our team is crumbling. It seems futile at this point. We may have issues on offense, but I don't think they are historically bad. That's what the scoring has been like these past few weeks. Even the Browns score more. We went from scoring 30 points per game to being worse than an 0-16 team in just a few weeks?


Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if we got a high draft pick only for the NFL to take picks away, just to further punish Jerry. The league already shoved Zeke under the bus. Why not the whole team?

You right. At this point the whole season is a cluster mess. I know this team have issues but the refs and NFL just make it stuff worse. At this point other teams know the ref's are not going to call certain things in our favor. So they do it and get away with it.

 

[Kaiser]

Unfortunately, what folks eagerly want to do is take that information and make the leap and say it’s a full blown conspiracy all while not providing a shred of verifiable evidence related to the mechanisms and shot-callers behind it.

Actually that kind of anomaly is exactly how a conspiracy if proven. The SEC or FBI is never given a recording of a phone call where a bunch of people pull out agenda minutes of a meeting titled "criminal conspiracy". They find the anomaly and work backwards. In things like SEC investigations of naked shorting they never have physical evidence beforehand, they have the data afterward.

I'm sure we will see more of the data on the holding calls going forward. But the timeline is very clear:

1 - Goodell suspends Zeke when all the evidence exonerates him.

2 - Jones goes through every legal challenge and fights Goodell's contract extension.

3 - A statistical anomaly appears in penalties that punishes the Cowboys.

 

[Kaiser]

It can be done if you get the data set; for my comparison, I went in, one team at a time, and pulled all of the penalties for the season to this point, so it was easy to pull any team to see their stats for penalties...I have all of the teams info thru the Tday games, but would need to do something to show a grid (for example) of how they all fell...

I don't think I will have the time, but can the data set start at the point holding calls against Dallas ended? If so I may be able to work on it.

 

[Pants]

I don't think I will have the time, but can the data set start at the point holding calls against Dallas ended? If so I may be able to work on it.

I am pretty sure I can do it, I just don't think I will have time to clean it up today (likely by tomorrow)

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

How predictable. Deflection and lame attempts at attacks.

Spaghetti monster? Who talks like that?

You’d have to be dim-witted to conflate accusations of “bias” and “extreme inconsistency” with forming a theory about a conspiracy. I simply am stating facts and asking for input and comparisons to show these calls are ordinary.

You’ll offer nothing except what you think are clever attacks. Those that have conditioned you to believe you’re witty are at fault and they may actually be involved in a conspiracy.

Lol, so your accusations of "bias and extreme inconsistency" is just you "forming a theory?"

And you wonder why I have to bring up spaghetti monsters to try to reason with you, smh.

 

[Kaiser]

I am pretty sure I can do it, I just don't think I will have time to clean it up today (likely by tomorrow)

Awesome, I'm going to post a timeline thread in a minute.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Actually that kind of anomaly is exactly how a conspiracy if proven. The SEC or FBI is never given a recording of a phone call where a bunch of people pull out agenda minutes of a meeting titled "criminal conspiracy". They find the anomaly and work backwards. In things like SEC investigations of naked shorting they never have physical evidence beforehand, they have the data afterward.

I'm sure we will see more of the data on the holding calls going forward. But the timeline is very clear:

1 - Goodell suspends Zeke when all the evidence exonerates him.

2 - Jones goes through every legal challenge and fights Goodell's contract extension.

3 - A statistical anomaly appears in penalties that punishes the Cowboys.

That kind of anomaly does not prove a conspiracy at all. It's simply fuels the fire for conspiracy theorists.

And, yes, the FBI is absolutely given a "smoking gun" in the form of recordings, documents, witness testimony, from someone or something that fills the void and links causality.

So now, based on your theory, you've got a third separate party (NFL Referee Association) that is now in cahoots with the league to do-in the Jerry and the Cowboys?

 

[Kaiser]

And, yes, the FBI is absolutely given a "smoking gun" in the form of recordings, documents, witness testimony, from someone or something that fills the void and links causality.

No, they don't. In the vast majority of SEC Securities Fraud cases they prove the information was given to the person/fund and then that trading happened that matches a beneficial self-interested trade. They never have a document where a guy like Steven Cohen writes down "Now that I have the earnings report preview, I'm going to short the stock".

 

[lurkercowboy]

Awesome, I'm going to post a timeline thread in a minute.

I’d like to see that

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

No, they don't. In the vast majority of SEC Securities Fraud cases they prove the information was given to the person/fund and then that trading happened that matches a beneficial self-interested trade. They never have a document where a guy like Steven Cohen writes down "Now that I have the earnings report preview, I'm going to short the stock".

Yeah, that'd be a direct cause-and-affect popcorn trail of evidence....i.e. a smoking gun.

The FBI procures evidence that Person/Fund X was given illegal insider information from which they subsequently benefitted.

Where is your equivalent as it relates to refs/Goodell/bias and the Cowboys?

Pointing to penalties and effectively saying "Goodell is vengeful" does not equate to a smoking gun.

That's an unsubstantiated theory and nothing more.

 

[Alexander]

A little off the tin foil hat path, but does anyone actually believe that if the holds were called at a normal frequency that it would have affected the outcome of any of the last three games in the long run?

 

[Kaiser]

Pointing to penalties and effectively saying "Goodell is vengeful" does not equate to a smoking gun.

You are missing the point so let me say it again.

There is very, very rarely a "smoking gun" in conspiracy cases. No one is stupid enough to write it down or go into the details on the phone. Its done in private meetings and through third parties. The vast majority of criminal convictions for conspiracy are because they proved a cause and effect where motive and benefit aligned in a "anomaly".

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Here's some fun stats:

• Dallas is 22nd in the NFL in total number of penalties called against (65 total; Seattle by comparison is #1 with 103....do you believe their fans think the league is out to get them?)
• In terms of net difference (beneficial calls vs. calls against), Dallas is 11th in the league w/-4; Seattle is -36, 49ers -20, Buffalo -17 and Kansas City -16

Keep in mind, most of the league hasn't even played their 11th game as the Cowboys have which will inevitably drop them further even further down those lists.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

You are missing the point so let me say it again.

There is very, very rarely a "smoking gun" in conspiracy cases. No one is stupid enough to write it down or go into the details on the phone. Its down in private and through third parties. The vast majority of criminal convictions for conspiracy is because they proved a cause and effect where motive and benefit aligned in a "anomaly".

Ah, I see, the "vast majority."

Feel free to share A SINGLE CASE so we can discuss.

If you really think the FBI is convicting people without substantive evidence that clearly paints a picture of guilt evidentially, you are waaaaay overstating your point Kaiser.